Talk:Kiwi (bird)/Archive 1

Deletion discussion
''This article has been listed on Votes for deletion in the past. See Articles for deletion/Kiwi for the discussion archive.''

This article needs a lot of work to get it accurate. I hesitate, despite lashing out on List of New Zealand birds and putting 5 species (incl 2 subspecies), as I'm not sure how well accepted are recent suggestions for classification. Nurg 07:33, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

too much about bats?
... 3 species of bat: the long-tailed bat (Chalinolobus) and two short-tailed bats (Mystacina robusta and M. tuberculata). - do we really need to go into so much specific detail about bats?

kiwi size accuracy
The article states that the largest kiwi is 450 mm tall. This is 4.5 cm (about 2 inches). I'm not an expert, but I think they are probaby bigger than that if they weigh somewhere in the range of kilograms (unless the article is mistaken in the weight also???).


 * You're out by one decimal place (450 mm = 45 cm, not 4.5 cm). All the height and weight information in the article is correct, afaics.  Ppe42 13:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Kiwi can be two feet or about 60 cm. This is for the bigger species.

Mascot
Should a mascot for wikis ever be needed, like Tux for linux, I vote for a kiwi.--SQB 08:24, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I second that, but it might be hard to convince an international organisation to choose an animal that can only be found in one country, as it's mascot (A penguin can be found in many countries). -- Faded_Mantis 04:32, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The California state bear, the grizzly, can't be found in California. What's the big deal? — Daniel 23:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * and plus, if ya switch thw w and the k, wikis=kiwis. lol, at first I though that wuz the reason it wuz called wikis. ROFLness HyperSushi21 04:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Linking
I'm at a loss as to whether I should add a wikipedia link to monogamous in the opening article 3rd paragraph down or a wiktionary link. The wikipedia link is monogamous and the wiktionary link is monogamous. My intention was to give a definition of the word for people who didn't understand its meaning. However after searching wikipedia and finding that the monogamy topic has both the definition and background reading it had made me have my doubts. Which link do you think would be better? The easy to understand Wiktionary link or the Wikipedia link that also has background reading?

Title
The title should probably be changed to Kiwi (bird), with Kiwi pointing to the disambiguity page, though I'm new, so I don't know how to do that.


 * Possibly, however the article has a link to the disambiguation page at the top. The Kiwi bird is the origional meaning of the word, and for hundreds of years was the only meaning of the word. I'm against the change (btw, you mention you are new, heres a tip, sign your disscussion posts with 4 tildes ~). -- Faded_Mantis 07:54, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm with Faded_Mantis on this. Worldwide, the meaning most commonly associated with the term kiwi is the fruit. But in terms of total number of occurrences, as used by New Zealanders and Australians, it probably most often refers to New Zealand people. Nevertheless, New Zealanders would see the primary meaning as referring to the bird. The word is a Māori one, and Māori have a strong expectation of their language being used and (if possible) pronounced properly by speakers of other languages.


 * Leaving the title as it is, and pointing to the disambiguation page for other uses of the word, is showing proper respect to the language.&mdash;Copey 2 23:53, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

First NZ human settlement
While current thinking on NZ pre-European settlement is moving towards an understanding that the first settlers arrived in the 13th century, this is not universally accepted in the mainstream. Some (eg Jim Williams (Ngāi Tahu), of Otago University) would still place the earliest settlement at around 850 AD. DNA analysis of kiore (Polynesian rats) indicates that the rats were in New Zealand about 2000 years ago. This points to a very early landfall, as they must have been brought here by humans, but the belief that there was actual settlement here at that time or earlier is the province of off-the-wall alternative New Age theorists. Copey 2 23:53, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

kiwi bird and temperature surrounding
what tempearture range does grate spotted kiwi usually live in???

Genus or species?
"A kiwi is any of the species of small flightless birds.... Several kiwi species are endangered." Is a kiwi a specific species or several species? — Daniel 23:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Kiwi=genus Apteryx. I think kiwi=several species. I'm not sure if all Apteryx are kiwi tho... HyperSushi21 04:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Kiwi are endemic to NZ, and Apteryx are only kiwi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.20.3.97 (talk) 02:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Number of species
The species section should be overhauled, as there are five species of kiwi. These are Rowi, Little spotted, Brown, Great spotted,and tokoeka. Tokoeka is then divided into 4 subspecies (Haast, Stewert Island, North Fiordland, and South Fiordland).

THIS HAS BEEN CONFIRMED http://www.savethekiwi.org.nz/AboutTheBird/TheKiwiFamily

I have worked out the kinks and have made the species section more accurate. 67.172.125.13 21:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Some people also might know kiwi as a rapper/comedian/actress from detroit, MI —Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.9.40.54 (talk) 00:58, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Pets
can they be kept as pets?

I wish they could, but due to their temperment and the law, I wouldn't even try.

Please sign your post with four tildes Mumblebot (talk) 23:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Article links to itself!
The links to the kiwi species link to the same articles.

I'll try to fix that.

It's better, except for the Rowi, as it has its own page.

Individual Pages For Species
The title says it all, I think that each of the species descriptions should be on their own pages, like Okarito Brown Kiwi. 67.172.125.13 02:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Category:Apterygidae
Do we need this classification at the bottom? The genus Apteryx is the only one in it's family, so the title category has no purpose that I can find. Teak the Kiwi 01:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Articles should not, in general, be in both a category and its subcategory. The individual articles should be in Category:Apteryx, but a case could be made for scrapping this category entirely and putting the articles into Category:Apterygidae instead, since otherwise Apterygidae would have only one sub category and no articles. If you want to make such a case, a good place to initiate discussion would be at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds.- gadfium 02:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The simplest solution is to remove the apterygidae category from each of the articles. You can do this yourself. This leaves the apterygidae category with no articles and only one subcategory.


 * The rest of what I said above was another way of approaching the problem which might be controversial, and can be ignored.- gadfium 02:32, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Popular Culture?
I was thinking about adding a Kiwi's in popular culture section and with the youtube link to the popular Kiwi 3d animation, only a suggestion and the link to the video is here.

--Kai81123 12:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't mean to ruin your day but I remember something about youtube linking not being ok, although maybe if it is in your new popculture section it will be ok. Teak the Kiwi 14:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no specific policy with regards to YouTube content (there was a guideline but it failed) External links/YouTube. However as External links states, linking copyright violations is violation of policy. This applies to a fair amount of YouTube content and as such, YouTube links should be done with care. However, in this case, the person who uploaded claims to be the copyright owner and this seems likely the case so there is no problem in that area. Issue of relevance etc obviously still need to be considered Nil Einne 14:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection
Lately we have been seeing a lot of vandalism by IPs. Do you guys think this page needs to be semi-protected? Teak the Kiwi 23:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks like a vandalism every few days. Semiprotection is normally only considered if an article is vandalised every few hours or more frequently. The solution is to encourage more users to watchlist the article so that reverts can happen more quickly. It is already listed at WikiProject New Zealand/Vandalism patrol, the next step might be to add it to Most vandalized pages.- gadfium 00:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Now with the rash of ip vandals maybe we should semi-protect it. Teak the Kiwi 23:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:NZ-kiwimap.png
User:Seong0980 deleted this image because he said it didnt load and wasted space. However it loads fine for me in a couple of browsers so I restored it - maybe the servers were having a bad day for Seong0980. Kahuroa 10:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Species Info
Do we need all of the info (other than there are 5 species, 1 with 4 subspecies + the links)? Teak the Kiwi 18:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Stamp and Other New Pic
Does anyone se relavence to the stamp being on the page/where it is? Teak the Kiwi 23:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think there are better pics on Commons, also not impressed with recent changes to the pictures, including the yellow blurry pic of various stuffed kiwi in a museum. Kahuroa 19:03, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If someone could get higher quality of the museum it would be ok. In the mean time I will try to identify each specimen. However, I definently think the stamp picture should go. Teak the Kiwi 23:33, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The museum in question has long since closed - so I can't see what can be done now to improve the image, which, because it is yellow blurry and dark, detracts from the page and makes it look amateurish. It has no redeeming photographic or encyclopedic qualities so I will replace it with one of the drawings of the spotted kiwi from Commons. Kahuroa 19:53, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Kiwi Taxobox needs to be updated
The current taxobox does not show the conservation status. kimsalls70.114.248.250 14:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's because conservation status is only relevant for an individual species, but kiwi are a genus with at least five species.- gadfium 19:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Kiwi Capitilisation
Should kiwi not be capitilised throughout the article as it is the name? i.e kiwi to Kiwi? --Nordic Crusader 07:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

If it was a species probably yes, but since it is a genus I don't think it should. Teak the Kiwi 17:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Flight
do the birds fly —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.237.135.194 (talk) 19:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please read at least the first sentence of the article before asking questions.- gadfium 03:51, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

KIWI KIWI KIWI KIWI KIWI KIWI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tacobob07 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The reasonable answer to that would be no, the kiwi can't fly. (♠  Mur  chy  ♠) 13:15, 22 September 2007 (UTC))

That's half the plot for the Kiwi movie on youtube, actually. Mumblebot (talk) 20:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Kiwi Status
The Status of the Kiwi - according to the new zealand department of conservation - is endangered! So whoever keeps cahnging it on the status bar, dont. It is correct. (♠ Mur  chy  ♠) 13:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC))
 * Conservation status - Brown kiwis are listed as endangered. http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/3045.shtml (♠  Mur  chy  ♠) 14:03, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The article deals with several species of the genus Apteryx, all known as kiwi. The conservation status is appropriate only to each species and not to the genus. If you look at the articles on the individual species, ie Great Spotted Kiwi, Little Spotted Kiwi, Okarito Brown Kiwi, Tokoeka and North Island Brown Kiwi, you will see that each has a conservation status, and they are not all the same.


 * I am concerned at some of the material you are adding to the article. You may not be distinguishing between material relating to an individual species and the genus as above. You also seem not to understand the difference between species. I am not familiar with the concept of a cryptic species complex which you linked to, but it seems to be a much closer relationship than exist between all ratites as you are suggesting. I will remove that section.- gadfium 18:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed some of the material most clearly wrong, but the remainder still needs to be checked over carefully by someone knowing more about kiwi than I do. I would have no objection if the whole article was reverted to an earlier version. I've tried to preserve some of Murchy's well meaning edits, but I think the article quality has suffered.- gadfium 19:23, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Gadfium, I will revert to a previous version. I know it is well meant, but the material is unsourced, and contains lots of typos and differs greatly in style from the rest of the article - if it gets entrenched into the article, it will be hard to disentangle later - we could transfer it to the talk page for evaluation perhaps. Kahuroa 19:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * PS - reverting to an earlier version also gets rid of a possible copyvio image Image:Eggdifference.jpg that Murchy inserted into the article within minutes after it was uploaded by User:OhPishPosh!. And, quite a lot of the material concerned appears to be taken from a school project website without attribution. Kahuroa 22:20, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow..... fine, well, you do whatever you like, sorry for just trying to improve the article, feel free to do it yourself next time..... Can you do anything on here without someone coming along that has a problem with it?! Maybe you should spend 6 hours trying to improve an article vital to New Zealand as is the kiwi instead of ragging on the person who did! (♠  Mur  chy  ♠) 22:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Once bonded as a monogamous couple, a male and female kiwi tend to live their whole lives together as a monogamous couple.
The first line of the third paragraph under "Behaviour and ecology" states:

"Once bonded as a monogamous couple, a male and female kiwi tend to live their whole lives together as a monogamous couple."

This is repetitive. The best way to rectify the sentence would be to simply omit the first "as a monogamous couple" just before the comma. Therefore, it should read:

"Once bonded, a male and female kiwi tend to live their whole lives together as a monogamous couple." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.155.85.106 (talk) 05:37, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That is just what I thought. I will change it. --Timtak (talk) 08:29, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

chicks
Almost from birth, chicks snarl and hiss at predators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.195.251 (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Maori legend.
The maori legend about how and why kiwi became like they are is interesting. It has it that the kiwi used to be a beautiful bird that lived in the tree tops, with colourful plumage and vibrant song, much like the tui or the bellbird. But one day the forest was overwhelmed by lots of creepy crawlies, insects and worms, and so Tane Mahuta, god of the forest gathered all the native birds together, saying who will change their lifestyle and eat up all the bugs. Shining cuckoo was too busy building her nest, pukeko didnt want to get his feet dirty and didn't want to be away from the other birds, ruru (the morepork owl) couldn't bare the thought of being down in the darkness of the forest floor, and only kiwi said, "yeah, alright, i'll do it." Tane said, even though you'll have to lose your ability to fly and all your nice colouring and will have to be nocturnal? Kiwi still said he/she'd do it. So Tane punished the birds who wouldnt, making pukeko live in swamps, away from the forest birds, making the shining cuckoo never build a nest again, and become a pariah for parasitising other bird's nests, making morepork nocturnal, etc... Perhaps this story (not my version obviously) could go into the article under 'Folklore' or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.20.3.97 (talk) 02:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Conservation Status
Just noticed that this animal has no conservation status bar. fix please i was curious? 202.74.220.148 (talk) 07:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I just actually read the rest of the talk page... could we come to a conclusion on this please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.74.220.148 (talk) 07:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You'll notice we are dealing with an entire family here, not a species. Only species have conservation status. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  08:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Order
recently updated the taxobox on this page to change the order from Struthioniformes to Apterigiformes. I have reverted these changes for the time being. I understand that the taxonomy of birds is a tricky subject, but it strikes me that this change is not "non-controversial" and should be discussed here first. Please express any opinions regarding this change here. If no objection is made, I will restore this change. I will also include this topic in discussion at WP:WikiProject Birds. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 18:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless of which is the more accepted order, I see that Apterygiformes redirects to this article, but there is no mention of the term here. There should be a paragraph explaining that there is or was or is proposed to be such an order, containing only Kiwi, It might also be appropriate to include a mention of the term at Ratite, since Struthioniformes redirects there.- gadfium 20:13, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

How often do Kiwis lay eggs?
In the wikipedia page (in the Behaviour/Ecology section) it suggests Kiwis lay egg very rarely, with large gaps in between each egg, but on this page it says they lay them "with the consistency of battery hens". Which is right??

--ScribbleStick (talk) 21:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I presume that the "consistency" refers to the density of the yolk and white ! Shyamal (talk) 05:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * This page, from the same site as linked to by ScribbleStick, describes kiwi egg laying and egg composition in more detail. The comparison with battery hens clearly doesn't refer to laying frequency or egg composition. But laying can be consistent without being frequent. The sentence at the bottom, saying that some kiwi lay 100 eggs during their lifetime, certainly seems to indicate consistency in this sense, given that each egg takes a month to produce. -- Avenue (talk) 09:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Duh! I feel a bit silly now for not relising that. Thanks for your help. --ScribbleStick (talk) 19:53, 10 May 2009 (UTC)