Talk:Knights of Cydonia

Guitar Hero 3 reference
Youshould add one, because that's beast.--Nick jehn (talk) 20:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

That, and it's probably what convinced most people to either buy the album or download the song. Will

Music Video.. Santeria?
Did anyone else immediately think of the music video for Santeria by Sublime when they watched the music video?

Yes, I know, unrelated and unimportant. The Star Wars holograms reminded me of the ghostly apparitions of Bradley Nowell in Santeria(lead guitarist, died from a heroine overdose before the album was released, is seen playing guitar a few times in the video as a bluish ghost) and there's several other similarities including getting thrown out the window.. I guess it's all western but still. 71.220.99.67 (talk) 19:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Oblivon?
What is the reference in the clip to oblivion?

Being rel. new her I wonder if the less obvious movie-references in the article would originate from any reliable source. Or is it obvious when you know the respective film? Anyway, the flash-interface on the contest's homepage for Knights of Cydonia rejects both Oblivion & High Plains Drifter, but accepts the other 15 films mentioned, so... Mogwai22 02:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Name
According to Naming conventions, this article should be titled "Kinghts of Cydonia". Can we change it? Acegikmo1 21:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I can't see anything there about decapitalising minor words. With this album, they seem to be capitalising the beginnings of all words in official announcements, so it's assumed that this is the official title (in official catalogs names are always recorded in block capitals, so unfortunately it's not always clear cut). BigBlueFish 13:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


 * "In titles of songs or albums, unless it is unique, the standard rule in the English language is to capitalize words that are the first or the last word in the title and those that are not conjunctions (and, but, or, nor, for), prepositions (in, to, over, through), articles (an, a, the), or the word 'to' when used to form an infinitive." I think that we should follow this.  Acegikmo1 16:20, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The iTunes Music Store says Knights of Cydonia. Click here if you have iTunes installed. Mahahahaneapneap 18:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=162993934&s=143441 click here for US version. &#91;&#91;User:bandgeek100]] 03:13, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Release
Just to clear up, it doesn't look like there's going to be a physical US single release. It has been dubbed the US single because radio stations are now playing it, rather than Supermassive Black Hole in the lead-up to the album. This means that it shouldn't strictly be using the single infobox, but it's bound to be the next, or a future single anyway, so might as well be left in. BigBlueFish 14:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Album cover in the article
Does anybody have any objections to showing the Black Holes And Revelations album cover in the article? User:Madchester has removed it three times now but is not replying to my objection to its removal. At time of writing it is the only non-meta image in the article, and 108 of the 255 words in it discuss the song's connection to this image, so other than the knee-jerk reaction against album covers being used in song articles as meta-data, I can't see any reason anyone would object to it. BigBlueFish 16:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, please do not re-insert the album cover, per WP:SONG and WP:IMAGE guidelines and especially Image use policy's official guidelines.


 * Wikipedia's Image use policy states that Once there is enough text to support the image, any contributor is free to shift the image back into the article. Given the word count for the song is less than 500 words, there is no need to overcrowd the article with excess images.  See featured articles for examples such as "She Loves You", or "Layla" for appropriate usage of additional photos in music-related articles. These articles are over 1500 words in length and the images provide appropriate breaks to the text and provide complimentary information.  Thanks. --Madchester 21:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I would have expected you as an admin to do a little better than repeat what you have already said. I'm not just reverting for the sake of being difficult, I have contested your arguments for removing the image. You still haven't suggested why this image constitutes overcrowding, when it is the only useful image in the article. You also quote image queuing like it was policy - in fact it is a suggestion and requires a very liberal interpretation of "ugly and difficult to read", the criteria for which that part of the policy applies, for it to apply to this article. You describe images in featured articles as providing complimentary information - this image is a millisecond illustration of what half the article is talking about. Should it all be shunted to the album article? No. The commentary discusses how the image depicts the metaphorical "Knights of Cydonia" - it belongs here. If I expected to see a "see other article for more information" link, it would be from Black Holes And Revelations to here, since that article's job is not to go into lengthy discourse on Knights of Cydonia. Just a couple more doses of common sense here would be lovely. BigBlueFish 15:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What?
"A possibly insignificant, but perhaps deliberate, mistake occurs on the main title card, which begins with "KNIGHTS OF CYDONIA (C) MCLMXXXI". Besides using improper Roman numerals, this would indicate that the video had been filmed in the year 2081."

Improper Roman numerals? What does that mean? If they were improper how could you figure out the number they represent? --Macarion 04:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Iz da spellun in dis sentense good just becoz yu kan figur out wat it reprezents? And I'm not sure you can figure out what MCLMXXXI represents. They may have have meant for CLM to represent 1000 - 150 which would make the date 1881. The ambiguity could be intential since the video is a mixture of old west (1881) and sci fi (2081) elements.

You can verify here: http://www.guernsey.net/~sgibbs/roman.html that MCLMXXXI is not a valid Roman Numeral according to the Roman rules for forming numbers. At best MCLMXXXI is a typo and not a deliberate 'mistake.' To infer a date of 2081 from it is wishful thinking. The inference about 'A possibly insignificant, but perhaps deliberate, mistake occurs on the main title card, which begins with "KNIGHTS OF CYDONIA (C) MCLMXXXI. Besides using improper Roman numerals, this would indicate that the video had been filmed in the year 2081.' should be removed and replaced by 'A possibly insignificant mistake occurs on the main title card, which begins with "KNIGHTS OF CYDONIA (C) MCLMXXXI. This in an invalid Roman numeral and likely is a typo, as the date with the ending title card would suggest.'

Interesting, though, is the 1881 suggestion for this Roman Numeral, as it would be properly written as MDCCCLXXXI!
 * Thats rubbish, "This problem manifested in such questions as why 1990 was not written as MXM instead of the universal usage MCMXC, or why 1999 was not written simply IMM or MIM as opposed to the universal MCMXCIX.

However, these rules are not universally followed." Roman numerals can be written however the hell you want, the Romans didnt have proper rules for them so any 'rules' were just the standard way of doing it.--82.35.192.193 (talk) 21:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing it was intentional, but not overly significant - probably just intended to indicate the cheapness of the "film".


 * No, it IS significant. The song is set in the future, and this looks like an easter egg that proves that. Maybe there is more information at [Muse.mu]. Also, look up the Muse myspace and follow some of their "Top 8" links to players in the video. Sabrebattletank

Notice that in title card of director's version you can find "KNIGHTS OF CYDONIA (C) MCMLXXXI" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.222.21.232 (talk) 17:04, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it the same as whats at the start of blazing saddles? 203.173.189.99 13:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh you silly people! It's done ON PURPOSE. The music video is set on Mars (Cydonia) in the FUTURE! The director wrote it incorrectly for a very good reason! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theinfamousfinatic (talk • contribs) 14:57, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Music And Meaning
"The tune and rhythm for the song were loosely based off of the Song of the Plains, a traditional Russian song."

A source needs to be cited if this is to be included.

---

"The titular "Cydonia" refers to the region on Mars where some believe life has existed, and is the site of the infamous 'Face on Mars'."

How sure are we about this? Considering the band has used roman numerals (albeit false ones) to date their copyright, and the fact that there was an ancient greek city named Cydonia in a time where some form of a warrior that could be compared to a knight was likely to have existed, wouldn't it seem more likely that this is what they are referring to? Personally I prefer to think of actual sword wielding knights fighting for their rights when I listen to this song, rather than the logicless conclusion that the song must be about a rumored micro organism on the face of the moon.

I like that interpretation, too, but there just seems to be more evidence supporting the Mars-region one, particularly the album cover of Black Holes and Revelations; even a couple of the album's songs (i.e. "Supermassive Black Hole", "Exo-Politics") point out a somewhat astronomical theme. So basically, it stands as is that the Knights of Cydonia did in fact wield light-sabers, at least in my opinion. --Wikiwow 21:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

There is also the fact that Matt bellamy is very interested in space and conspiracy themes, plus the album cover which shows 4 men sitting at a table on mars with horses on it, which most likely represent the "Knights of Cydnia". Though you bring up an interesting interperetation, history would point to it reffering to the cydonia of mars. --JAK2112 23:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Cydonia could also reference the ancient land of Cydonia which, if you're looking into conspiracy theory, was connected to interaction with alien beings. There is definitely astronomical references throughout Muse's work, but many biblical references as well. The subject of Cydonia is an intersection of the two. ––ninohio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.102.174.39 (talk) 14:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed this is defiantly to do with space and conspiracies, also the roman numerals are not false, even if they were invalid, which theyre not, theyre not false.--82.35.192.193 (talk) 21:31, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

"The song's meaning is to teach people to stand up for themselves and make their own destiny.[3]" - Citation [3] leads to an article in The Sun, where the band is interviewed. They never actually state that this is the meaning of the song. Either get a proper source or remove the statement... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.9.99 (talk) 20:23, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Hilarious
Did anybody else think the music video was intentionally hilarious? I cracked up when I first saw it - the dirtbike escape from the hanging, the chick riding the unicorn through the desert etc. I dunno. Mixed with the song, images like that seemed to be tongue-in-cheek ridiculously funny, and it's obviously what the band intended. Which susprised me, since I thought they took their music seriously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.143.159 (talk • contribs)


 * I thought the video was fantastic and of COURSE it was intended to be funny. In the first few seconds we see him practice a slew of pseudo-kungfu styles ("flaming energy ball"?).  The video is littered with homages to pop-culture.  As for the seriousness of Muse's music, they've always been a little satirical and tongue in cheek.  The same guy that directed "Knights of Cydonia" did the video for Muse's "Muscle Museum" off the Showbiz album, and it features suburbanities sitting around crying.  It's not exactly "ha ha" hilarious, but it's not a charity cause, either. -- Broken Arms Gordon 08:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I found "Muscle Museum" - both the song and the video - strikingly serious for Muse. But that's just me. Knotrice (talk) 11:25, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Reception?
I've heard a lot of people who have commented that the song is similar to "Bohemian Rhapsody", at least in concept. Anyone heard what the critics have said about it? 128.120.176.107 07:28, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

i hope the bsides are like tracks from the eden project concert

Live Lyric Difference
The line "no-one's GONNA take me alive" is "no-one's GOING TO take me alive" when performed live. Big enough point to add to the "Live" section? CfW 01:28, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * They both mean the same thing, really. Blackguards_Light ''' //Evil turning good//  —Preceding comment was added at 15:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I feel the lyric change adds a cumbersome and clunky extra syllable to an otherwise sleek, aerodynamic rock/metal epic. The logic of the lyric change escapes me. Muse is one of the smarter, more instinctively spot-on bands out there in 2008...but this was not a good call, IMO. 65.248.164.214 (talk) 15:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Commodore C64 SID sound style, various different sounds
The beginning of the song was blatantly inspired by the Commodore C64 homecomputer SID music. The fast sparkling arpeggiator pattern with the strange lead voice timbre is really typical for that, although here the characteristic sound was ported to high quality timbres of "real" instruments, which really unique. An example for a C64 song in the same arpeggiator style is Martin Galway's C64 version of "The Neverending Story".

http://www.autofish.net/agmi/c64.html

A closer example for C64 rock music with arpeggiator is Rob Hubbard's great theme of "One Man and His Droid".

The fascinating thing is that in 1980th composers like Rob Hubbard and Martin Galway first attempted to program rock musics on the Commodore 64, but by hardware limitations it was impossible to make them sound realistic. Thus C64 music developed its own sound style, which in 1980th was silently ignored by conventional musicians and by the spread of hifi sampling in early 1990th became very despised and considered ridiculous - only to suddenly find its way now back into "real" rock music (played by a band) with a matter of course like when it was always there.

The special C64 sound style particularly introduced the massive use of arpeggiator effects to circumvent the low hardware polyphony of the SID chip (3 channels for synth timbres, 1 for low-res samples) to permit to play chords. And unlike common slow home organ arpeggios of 1970th and 80th (those stepped with rhythm tempo), SID music often included very rapidly whirling arpeggiator timbres, those step frequency could increase up to the sound frequency range. Despite fast arpeggiators were already introduced before in synthesizer musics (e.g. used by Jean Michael Jarre), only C64 music (and homecomputer squarewave musics in general) started to turn them into a dominating sound effect.

The song "Knights of Cydonia" consists of multiple sections arranged in different sound styles, those mostly allude to complex melodic 1970th and early 1980th rock musics. There are e.g. similarities with the Flash Gordon movie theme and of course 1970th western movie musics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.50.255.5 (talk) 02:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Dark Tower?
Am I the only person who caught the apparent references to Stephen King's Dark Tower. There's a dystopian future, robots, nearly-broken technology, and the guy looks like a Gun Slinger.

I was just about to ask the same question when I saw yours. I greatly agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.124.10.128 (talk) 06:05, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Trivia moved from Muse (band)
I removed the following because it didn't really fit in that article, perhaps it could be incorporated here: Knights of Cydonia was chosen as the 9th best Guitar Solo of all time by GQ Magazine in (2007).

Knights of Cydonia will feature as a playable song in Guitar Hero 3, which will be released in late 2007 -- M2Ys4U ( talk ) 00:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Triple J Hottest 100
Can anyone explain why the hottest 100 winner for 2007 was a song/album released in 2006. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.162.218 (talk) 13:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

From what I have gathered the single wasn't released in Australia till 11/Dec/06, so I guess it is more representative of music listened to in 2007 than 2006. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stxera (talk • contribs) 01:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know why but this song is fantastic and deserved to win! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.142.112.125 (talk) 14:30, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

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Removal of Martian reference
File:BlackHolesCover.jpg

The Martian Cydonia is far more notorious than the one on Crete, mainly due to the infamous face. Given the band's love of science fiction, space references in the album and the red landscape on the albums artwork, I think it's obvious which one they were going for. None of this has anything to do with any Wikipedian's opinion on the supposed face. -2A01:4C8:1486:640C:6830:FBC0:9F24:D6D (talk) 07:45, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, bring it back.ShanBendigedig1 (talk) 16:47, 8 June 2022 (UTC)