Talk:Knobkerrie

External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Knobkierie. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080915065819/http://www.thepresidency.gov.za:80/main.asp?include=orders/main.html to http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/main.asp?include=orders/main.html

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Most common spelling?
This article uses the least common spelling of the word (according to all the sources at which I've looked), and the spelling that is furthest from the Dutch etymology. "Knobkerry" is probably the most common spelling, followed by "knobkerrie". --87.112.45.99 (talk) 13:44, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I double checked my sources and found that it is indeed most commonly spelled knobkerry. I did a search on Google Ngram and it supports your conclusion. This may be due to national differences - the influence of Afrikaans spelling and pronunciation on South African English? Francoisdjvr (talk)

Name change
'Knobkerrie' is the standard spelling in the English language, see for example the Oxford Dictionary of English, 3rd Edition - it is also the spelling favoured in the vast majority of English language sources, with 'knobkerry' and 'knobkierie' being used more rarely. I intend to move the page to 'Knobkerrie' unless someone can come up with cogent reasons not to (useage in an English/Afrikaans dictionary - the reason used to move the page to 'knobkierie' in the first place - seems less than a definitive authority, given that this is the English Language Wikipedia). Urselius (talk) 17:09, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 18 July 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: (non-admin closure) Without objection. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 14:57, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Knobkierie → Knobkerrie – 'Knobkerrie' is the standard spelling in the English language, see for example the Oxford Dictionary of English, 3rd Edition - it is also the spelling favoured in the vast majority of more recent English language sources, with 'knobkerry' used to a greater extent in older publications. The present title, 'knobkierie' is used much used more rarely, I don't recall a single instance of this spelling in any publication I have read (I am quite conversant with Zulu history). I wish to move the page to 'Knobkerrie', however, a previous editor moved it from the original 'Knobkerrie' and thus created a redirect page for this name. The previous editor made the move to 'Knobkierie' on the strength of an appearance of the spelling in an Afrikaans/English dictionary, which I feel is insufficient reason when this spelling is definitely much more obscure. Urselius (talk) 19:28, 18 July 2019 (UTC)


 * I have no strong feelings on this either way - many spelling variants exist. If you think knobkerrie works better then go for it. Francoisdjvr (talk) 09:11, 19 July 2019 (UTC)


 * Support. Clear common name in English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:52, 24 July 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 6 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 03:02, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Knobkerrie → Iwisa – Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (Iwisa attracts more google results than Knobkerrie and the other name variants). Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 01:27, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose. The knobkerrie is a term in the English language, iwisa is a Zulu language or Nguni term, and this is the English language Wikipedia. Even more cogent is the fact that identical 'knobbed sticks' or clubs are used by non-Zulus, who have their own terms for these sticks in their own, often unrelated, languages. Moving the article to iwisa would be tantamount to according the Zulu people a sort of cultural hegemony over the concept of 'knobbed sticks', alienating other peoples. Any type of 'cultural appropriation' should be anathema on Wikipedia. The creation of a separate article covering only the Zulu iwisa would be acceptable, if it does not merely mirror the content of this article. Urselius (talk) 08:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Clear WP:COMMONNAME in English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Odd wording
The following seems very strange.

"The iwisa was not typically used in combat – though they were occasionally used as thrown weapons in place of the throwing spear or isijula. Instead, the Zulu used iwisa as swagger sticks, ceremonial objects, or even as snuff containers."

Given that the iwisa is fairly obviously primarily a club for hitting people with, and is usually seen in context of iklwa stabbing spears and shields (there is even a photo of a Zulu with an iklwa in one hand and an iwisa in the other, on Wikimedia) this insistence on it being both not used in war and being a primarily thrown weapon seems highly illogical. Virtually any type of spear would make a more effective thrown weapon than a club! Lighter sticks and clubs are often used to hunt birds, but a heavy iwisa is not very suited for that use. Urselius (talk) 10:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)