Talk:Koda Kumi/Archive 2

Vandalism
With recent vandalism by crazy pathetic Ayumi Hamasaki fans with absolutely no time on their hands, and also annoying minor edits of irrelevant information by anonymous IPs, it would be a wise idea for this article to be locked and give exclusive privileges to certain users to edit this page.

-XaiTerran 03:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that'll be a good idea. — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 10:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It needs to be repeated vandalism, because I tried to get both articles protected and the admin declined due to the fact that there isn't enough evidence of the horrible edits. ― Sturr ★彡 Refill/lol 03:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh boo. I'm also disliking the edits from unregistered users, adding trifle information without citing properly or just superfluous information that either doesn't fit the article stylistically or is just plain superfluous. XaiTerran 19:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just because Ayumi fans are willing to do anything for theur favorite .. dont be h8in. Anyway, I'm not jsut an Ayumi Hamasaki fan, but also an Ai Otsuka fan. and i only do it because Kumi Koda hasnt got the talent of either of them. Anyway, it dosent matter. Ku is at the bottom of the ladder. Just look at the Recent BEST by All. So far the sales are ... A Best 2 | Ayumi Hamasaki = Nearly 1.3 Million Sold / Nearly 2 million shipped ... Ai Otsuka | Ai am BEST! = 400,000 Koda Kumi | BEST ~Bounce & Lovers~ = 200,000. So i dont care about making kuu look bad on wikipedia anymore. (Impracticable 03:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh I'm sorry, but A BEST 2 sold poorly. Combining two different CDs to make one giant sale? Doesn't work, buddy. Ayumi's the one with no talent, retard.

Plus, B&L is a limited edition album. Good one again! Find something better to do. XaiTerran 10:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I said, even if you seperate them, on their oiwn they bothh have more. and it says it in the article yourself, you can get B&L until April. So i geuss that means its limited i time to get it, not limited made. Even if it is limited, Ayumi's old limited release single sold more than that. So what, koda's sales suck. And if Ayu has no talent, why is she the best selling japanese female and solo artist of all time, wth average sales per year of 5 million? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Impracticable (talk • contribs) 23:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Roffles, you wanna talk sales? Let's take a look at their last original albums. Oh wait, Black Cherry totally beat the crap out of Ayumi's Secret. And how much did Secret sell again? :) Oh, and might I remind you that Koda's tour/concert DVDs outsell Ayumi's? Yeah. Guess the person the general public thinks has more talent. -XaiTerran 05:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Roffles your mom. I'm geussing you don't know how high the international sales of Secret are? its her best selling internation album. Which means it had to seel at KLEAST over 1.5 million internationally. NHow who beat the crap out of who, moron? do oyur research. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Impracticable (talk • contribs) 15:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC).
 * You know what? This is a really retarded discussion. If you want to comfort yourself with sales, go ahead. It's not any basis for why any artist is good, better, or whatever. -XaiTerran 07:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, people. If you hate Koda Kumi then just ignore her, if you love Ayumi then go and love her. Why get into conflict? — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 08:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Nooo lives. D: -XaiTerran 05:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * See look, im a good Kumi hater. I took out a vanadlism on her opage that said "She wishes she was Ayu Hamasaki!" see, im not always a bad person. I'm a hood little kumi hater.

discography edit
i made a thing in the discography section. since im not a koda fan, there are probably tons of mistakes. go fix it up. i put it there so you guys have a template kind of. it a nice thin we have on ayumi's wiki —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Impracticable (talk • contribs).

"Albums" table - Time to Reach Consensus
I see that the table outlining Kumi's album sales have been repeatedly put into the page, while XaiTerran has been diligently removing the table. I see no need for such an action, so, please justify your action. — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 08:11, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't thing it is a waste of time it should be shown within the main page every artist had some kind of an albums talbe shown on there main page. ASDFGH 18:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

XaiTerran has mentioned the peer review, and I have read it. The phrase that particularly jumped out at me was big, long lists. I think the table on the Kumi Koda page (which has incidentally been removed again) is rather compact, and it gives the casual reader a large amount of information regarding Kumi's album sales, such that the reader does not need to consult the discography page. My main point is that a brief summary is acceptable, and should not be removed. So at this point, may I request you to be a little more reasonable, and open up to public opinion? (May I mention here that your relentless removal of the table is brewing an edit war) — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 07:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late response, I generally don't check discussion pages cause they're so hardly ever posted on. I just don't think it's reasonable to put up a chart for the albums up, cause then it leads to the question of why we don't post a chart of the singles up as well. -XaiTerran 03:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Good point, but see, singles are less important than albums since it's a work of smaller magnitude, so there's hardly a need to have any information for specific singles. My idea is this: Keep the table for a brief idea of Kumi's works and sales, so that the casual reader can get an overview without having to enter the discog page. If the reader wants in-depth info, he can visit the discog page. I object to the list growing extensively long, but I think the table at this length is a help more than a hindrance. (My whole point: Make things as easy as possible for the reader.) — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 07:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Citation Whatevers.
Since the recent "let's mark everything uncited!" wave of edits, I simply deleted all entries marked as needing a citation because, well, there isn't any available citation for any of them, otherwise I would have provided one in the first place. So, there will just be a brief summary of her first five years as a singer. I also renamed the most recent section of the article to "Post Black Cherry Era" because "Best ~Bounce & Lovers~" is not the defining work or even scope of her new work, so please do not change the title back.

Also, I really don't like the discography template being red. It's really ugly and I don't think the color scheme of that table goes well together. Can we PLEASE change the color to something else? That person who changed it to red is probably going to revert it back to red, so eh.

Any questions? Suggestions? Say it. —XaiTerran 04:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, I felt like removing the tags myself... Bit irritating... As for the discog table, I don't quite like the new color either, but I think we should start a poll to see what the community thinks (it's all about consenseous). — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 07:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Good job Xai. I think we should change the colour from red to something less bright. I think that a lot of people will agree with you in changing the colour. Btw, are there any translated interviews that Kumi has? Maybe would could incorporate some of her interviews into the article.  X2  RADialbomber  08:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Page Movement & Other Things
Sooooo, can we move the page from Kumi Koda to Koda Kumi? Yay or nay? If nay, why not?

Also, what do we do about the profile image? I've no idea what to do, cause it seems anything I upload violates some kind of rule so I don't even bother trying anymore. We really need a profile image for her.

Then there's the issue of her career before she became big. There is absolutely NOTHING on her before Best ~first things~. I would rather include an informative, detailed section on her than some sloppy summary I just did. The only source I know that would work is a television special on Koda that aired quite a while ago that displayed her struggles towards becoming a singer. However, the video is not in circulation anymore, and there is no one to translate it.

The grading of the article also bothers me; if anything, I would really, really like the article to be graded an A, at least that. More improvements need to be made to the article, I know, but any suggestions at all?

--XaiTerran 19:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * In order to be a grade A, it needs to be a good article. As for the image, we are trying to fetch a free image, that is, an image with no strict copyrights, like the one at Ayumi Hamasaki or the one at Utada Hikaru (although it is being discussed right now). Finally, about the name, from what I see the article should stay at Kumi Koda. The article about Hamasaki is not Hamasaki Ayumi, but Ayumi Hamasaki, to put an example. -- ReyBrujo 20:05, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * So what about the discussion up on top? I think some have a good point-- when Avex releases her products, they blatantly write her name out as Koda Kumi, and especially since Koda Kumi is a "nickname". Ayumi writes her name as "Ayumi Hamasaki" and Utada Hikaru has hers as it is written on her discog instead of "Hikaru Utada". -XaiTerran 21:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * According to this, For a modern figure (a person born from the first year of Meiji (1868) onward), always use the Western order of given name + family name for Western alphabet, and Japanese style family name+ +given name for Japanese characters. And according to this, In the case of an actor, athlete, author, artist or other individual who is more well known under a pseudonym, use the pseudonym as the article title, and note the additional names they may use (e.g., birth name, other pseudonyms), following the standards above. If the individual is more well known by family name + given name, a redirect for that should be used as well, and the article should note the multiple ways the name is used. Personally, Kumi Koda is used because of the first rule, but if the pseudonym is Koda Kumi instead, it could be moved. It depends in whether there are consensus or not, you can try asking at WikiProject Japan. -- ReyBrujo 21:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd support the page movement because I would prioritise accuracy over the Manual of Style. Regarding the video on her past, I personally feel that, with the internet, nothing is out of circulation. Maybe if you could give the title of that show, and some other information, we could all work together to find it. As for a free image, if you asked around at fan sites you'd very probably be able to find a photo taken by a fan. — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 05:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, good luck! The show is called "KINSMA" and the Japanese title is 「中居正広の金曜日のスマたちへ」. Official website, http://www.tbs.co.jp/kinsma —XaiTerran 00:52, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No luck with google search... And even a Yahoo video search and a dogpile search couldn't get me anything... I've posted an appeal for help at the Honeyflash fansite (www.honeyflash.cloudwalking.net) To other wikipedians interested in the development of this article: Please put up appeals for information at other fansites too. (If you need a reference, for the contents of your appeal post, you can read my post at honeyflash: http://honeyflash.cloudwalking.net/viewthread.php?tid=3162&page=1#pid36855) — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 09:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey I see talk of moving the page, are we taking into effect that Kumi Koda is a stage name? Ourdestiny 09:02, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

What's with the headline things in the artical????
What in the world is with the titles like "Into a Dark Cherry" and "Leaving the Pits of the Dark Cherry"?? She doesn't have anything called dark cherry does she??? It's confusing and I suggest that it be put like EVERY OTHER artist's page and be called "Black Cherry Era (date here)" (or to that effect) I understand trying to liven up a page but please this is an encyclipedia, and those titles would confuse people who didn't know anything about her. Please? Ourdestiny 09:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Uhhh I have to agree. In my eyes these subsection titles are not really good for an encyclopedia article. I suggest just going back to how it was or just using the year instead of the album title... X2 RADialbomber  12:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

True, but like XaiTerran says, there really is very little information in certain eras... I do prefer the old way though... — 0 6 1 2  (TALK) ; Posted: 03:49, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Images?
What's going on with all the images? Koda Kumi's page is just blocks and blocks of texts. I see it says there are copyrights, but what about other artists? they've got album covers on the info and stuff. Seriously, this page for Koda Kumi continues to be the worst out of all the other artist. >=( not happy! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.130.29.195 (talk • contribs).
 * If the other artist's pages abuse fair use images, then they should be removed as well. Here we are trying to get a free image of Kumi Koda, but so far, it is very difficult (just as difficult as finding a Utada Hikaru or Ayumi Hamasaki image, but with some effort you find them). -- ReyBrujo 17:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Translation of references
I have begun translation of Japanese titles of referenced sources and light reformating of the citations (I won't drag out citation templates, but will use Template:Cite web as a guide for ordering the available information). Anyone capable of making the translations is welcome to pitch-in. --Meyer 03:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Stylistically, should I leave in the Japanese text as I've done so far, or delete it and leave just the English translation? --Meyer 08:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So far as it goes, it looks fine, but there are still about 11 or 12 references that need attention. Cbdorsett 06:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Translation of references is now complete. I also removed stale links and passages that depended on them. --Meyer 06:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Caps
All music articles are supposed to conform to WikiProject_Albums. Yes, I know many people will argue with this because they "know" the correct way to write names and track listings, but that is the policy. I can see we've already had the name argument, now for track names. I started to edit it but there is far too much to do. Brettr 12:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Mess
This page is incredibly messy, could someone please clean it up? its too confusing for people to get proper information when it looks like a mess like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.161.100 (talk • contribs) (05:10, 30 July 2007)
 * The cleanup maintenance tag is shown at the top. We need to clean this article up ASAP. Any comments or objections? (Also, 24.44.161.100, can you please sign your comments using ~ ? This will automatically add your signature there. Thanks.) Greg Jones II 17:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Genre
Koda is J-POP. She is not J-Urban or J-Rock; that is complete nonsense. Any real fans of urban or rock music would totally laugh at you. First off, girls is not even remotely "rock" or "J-rock" (in fact, it is completely pop, reminiscent of oldschool J-pop), Ningyo-hime is nothing but pop music arranged with a bass, and all her RnB songs are urban-influenced pop.

Her genre is in J-pop. She has been a pop singer through and through the years. You cannot dispute this if you LISTEN TO ANY OTHER MUSIC. -XaiTerran 16:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)