Talk:Konya/Archive 1

Comment
Definitely all the history of a place must be mentioned. I am proud of the history of our towns. Like Istanbul. I am proud of its "Byzantium"nuss, its "Konstantinopolis"ness. Its Roman, Greek and Turkish cultures. The point is; the historical names must be mentioned within the context. That is; in the historical part of the text. In the examples you are giving, in the Thessaloniki example, the Turkish name Selanik is not mentioned on the first line and for the good reason. Regards. Ormands 19:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

The 1911 Edition of Encyclopaedia Britannica about Yuruks, Kailars and Konariotes (Koneviler)
see link

The first Turkish immigration from Asia Minor took place under the Byzantine emperors before the conquest of the country. The first purely Turkish town, Yenije-Vardar, was founded on the ruins of Vardar in 1362. After the capture of Salonica (1430), a strong Turkish population was settled in the city, and similar colonies were founded in Monastir, Ochrida, Serres, Drama and other important places. In many of these towns half or more of the population is still Turkish. A series of military colonies were subsequently established at various points of strategic importance along the principal lines of communication. Before 1360 large numbers of nomad shepherds, or Yuruks, from the district of Konya, in Asia Minor, had settled in the country; their descendants are still known as Konariotes. Further immigration from this region took place from time to time up to the middle of the 18th century. After the establishment of the feudal system in 1397 many of the Seljuk noble families came over from Asia Minor; their descendants may be recognized among the beys or Moslem landowners in southern Macedonia . At the beginning of the 18th century the Turkish population was very considerable, but since that time it has continuously decreased. A low birth rate, the exhaustion of the male population by military service, and great mortality from epidemics, against which Moslem fatalism takes no pre-cautions, have brought about a decline which has latterly been hastened by emigration

The Turkish rural population is found in three principal groups:
 * the most easterly extends from the Mesta to Drama, Pravishta and Orfano, reaching the sea-coast on either side of Kavala, which is partly Turkish, partly Greek.
 * The second, or central group begins on the sea-coast, a little west of the mouth of the Strymon, where a Greek population intervenes, and extends to the north-west along the Kara-Dagh and Belasitza ranges in the direction of Strumnitza, Veles, Shtip and Radovisht.
 * The third, or southern, group is centred around Kailar, an entirely Turkish town, and extends from Lake Ostrovo to Selfije (Servia). The second and third groups are mainly composed of Konariot shepherds. Besides these fairly compact settlements there are numerous isolated Turkish colonies in various parts of the country. The Turkish rural population is quiet, sober and orderly, presenting some of the best characteristics of the race. -- 3210 (talk) 00:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

More on 1911 Britannica
I've removed the following from the article:

"(2) The chief town [anc. Iconium], altitude 3320 ft., situated at the S.W. edge of the vast central plain of Asia Minor, amidst luxuriant orchards famous in the middle ages for their yellow plums and apricots and watered by streams from the hills. Pop. 45,000, including 5000 Christians. There are interesting remains of Seljuk buildings, all showing strong traces of Persian influence in their decorative details. The principal ruin is that of the palace of Kilij Arslan II., which contained a famous hall. The most important mosques are the great Tekke, which contains the tomb of the poet Mevlana Jelal ed-din Rumi, a mystic (sufi) poet, founder of the order of Mevlevi (whirling) dervishes, and those of his successors, the 'Golden' mosque and those of Ala ed-Din and Sultan Selim. The walls, largely the work of Ala ed-Din I., are preserved in great part and notable for the number of ancient inscriptions built into them. They once had twelve gates and were 30 ells in height. The climate is good - hot in summer and cold, with snow, in winter. Konia is connected by railway with Constantinople and is the starting-point of the extension towards Bagdad. After the capture of Nicaea by the Crusaders (1097), Konia became the capital of the Seljuk Sultans of Rum (see Seljuks and Turks). It was temporarily occupied by Godfrey, and again by Frederick Barbarossa, but this scarcely affected its prosperity. During the reign of Ala ed-Din I. (1219-1236) the city was thronged with artists, poets, historians, jurists and dervishes, driven westwards from Persia and Bokhara by the advance of the Mongols, and there was a brief period of great splendour. After the break up of the empire of Rum, Konia became a secondary city of the amirate of Karamania and in part fell to ruin. In 1472 it was annexed to the Osmanli empire by Mahommed II. In 1832 it was occupied by Ibrahim Pasha who defeated and captured the Turkish general, Reshid Pasha, not far from the walls. It had come to fill only part of its ancient circuit, but of recent years it has revived considerably, and, since the railway reached it, has acquired a semi-European quarter, with a German hotel, cafes and Greek shops, &c."

It was from the 1911 Britannica, but seemed somewhat out-of-place. Perhaps if the text is fixed it can be merged into the history section. Khoikhoi 08:23, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Iconium
I propose that Iconium be moved to a disambiguation page rather than redirected here, because there is an Iconium, Missouri. StaticElectric (talk) 05:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't agree. The place in Missouri is named after this place. Anyone interested in MO can be redirected at the top of the page. Iconium should be redirected here automatically. I've been living in the US for a long, long time and never heard of the place in Missouri before, though doubtless, not the only one in the US. The ancient Iconium is famous. The only reason that most of these place names aren't the official names is a surge of nationalism in Turkey in the 1920s. They may see the error of their ways and reclaim this famous name. Student7 (talk) 14:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you even include a disambig to a separately named page? StaticElectric (talk) 05:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * StaticElectric has a point. How do you include a disambiguation at the top of a page that doesn't even have the same name? This would be a no brainer for an article called "Iconium." BTW many ancient places in Turkey have two articles. One on the ancient, usually, Greek name, where this disambiguation could occur, and one on the modern named city. While mergers have been discussed, this hasn't happened for many articles, particularly where the exact geographic place isn't quite the same. Should this article be forked (back?) to Iconium while keeping the modern Konya? I have to admit doing it for the sole reason to disambiguate the place in Missouri doesn't seem the best idea. BTW there must be hundreds of Troys.


 * Having said that, Troy has not only a disambiguation page to Troy, but also one to Ilium. No reason that you can't put a disambiguation line for Iconium at the top of this article IMO. Student7 (talk) 21:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

New York as sister city
I checked the reference provided and I could not find anywhere on that site that New York would be Konya's sister city. I checked google as well - nothing. I found that Sarayevo, however is a sister city to Konya as of 2007. --Teemeah Gül Bahçesi  08:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Pictures
Some good pictures. The relationship of Konya to some of these photos is not establshed in the article. If the site is actually in' Konya, great. If Konya is being used as a "gateway" to these other areas represented by the pictures, the photos should go with that article not Konya. For example, Meram. What is a photo of Meram doing here? Seems to me that it is a separate district and town. These are not "family photographs," we are supposed to have clean lines between articles! Student7 18:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: Meram is just a part of Konya city. it is a suburb of Konya. Although it has a different municipiality, it is in today's metropolitan area. (yekta@asia.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.174.57.130 (talk) 00:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

"Indo-European Sea Peoples"

 * What?! The Sea Peoples were a confederation of either wholly or partly non-Indo-European Mediterranean peoples. Then again, when was Wikipedia preoccupied with accuracy?
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.68.95.65 (talk) 14:34, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Most conservative city?
The text claims that Konya is the most conservative city, religiously, in Turkey. I doubt that. Maybe the most conservative on the West coast? It needs rewording. Student7 (talk) 14:17, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Too many visits by Paul?
The text currently says that Paul definitely visited during his second journey and probably during his third. The biblical references cited do not support that claim. But my concordance, a reliable source, says "probably" visited during his second journey. Nothing about his third. I propose to change this. Student7 (talk) 13:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Geological History
A colleague reminded me that there was a large late Pleistocene lake near the site of the current city called Lake Konya. Perhaps someone with more geological knowledge than I could create an appropriate section? Bwilreker (talk) 12:47, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

when was konya conquered by the ottomans?
this artical says 1453 but acording to my hammond history atlas it has the year 1471 which one is correct? could konya really have been conquered in the same year contantinople (istanbul) was conquered? 76.244.150.120 (talk) 18:35, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Gallery
Note that the policy on gallery use says, "However, Wikipedia is not an image repository. A gallery is not a tool to shoehorn images into an article, and a gallery consisting of an indiscriminate collection of images of the article subject should generally either be improved in accordance with the above paragraph or moved to Wikimedia Commons." Student7 (talk) 18:54, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

This is not a picture album. Those go elsewhere. This is text that may be sometimes individually illustrated by pictures. The ones that were there kept the reader from the rest of the article for no good purpose. Student7 (talk) 18:54, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Subjective analysis of climate
Several cities have had editors subjectively evaluating their climate. This is not encyclopedic. There are no parameters here for evaluating climate. We can present temperature, humidity and precipitation. Our enlightened researchers reading this may draw their own conclusions.

I am visiting a place now where native men doff their shirts when it reaches 65 F. I think this is "cool." Clearly they do not.

Our ancestors lived in Africa for millions of years. It cannot be termed hot or cold or it would not have sustained them. I think of Africa as "hot." But labeling it as such would be WP:POV. Student7 (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Demonstration by women
Article read:


 * During the Turkish War of Independence, Konya became a logistical center for the Turkish Army along with other cities not occupied by the Allies. The needs of army were gathered in Konya and sent to fronts.
 * The first demonstration by women against the occupation was held in Konya.
 * The first demonstration by women against the occupation was held in Konya.

I removed the statement about the "demonstration by women" because it has no context, no date, and no source. It was also a bit strange that the editor adding the statement included a clarification request "Greek women?" -- given that it's in the War of Independence section, I'd have thought we're talking about a demonstration against the Greek occupation of Smyrna, or maybe the Great Power occupation of most of Turkey. I have no problem with its being reinserted into the article if we can include a bit more information about who, what, when, where, and why, and of course sources.

A little Web research finds that Konya was occupied by the British by May 1919; and that there were demonstrations against the Greek occupation of western Anatolia around the same time. The demonstrations included "Halide Edip and other women" in Istanbul but I haven't found any details about Konya or about women outside Istanbul. It seems unlikely that Greek women had anything to do with this.

It would also be interesting to learn when the British arrived in Konya, and when they left, if Konya was "not occupied by the Allies" during the War of Independence. --Macrakis (talk) 23:46, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. I was attempting to "improve" the uncited material that I found. Not being familiar with the precise details of the War of Independence by Province or city, I guessed wrongly (without going into detail. Most likely the original editor meant "Turkish women protesting Allied occupation."
 * Having admitted that, some details, as in all wars, seem a bit much. Turks and Greeks lived together in peace under the Ottomans and the Greeks had just been run off by the Turks (apparently). So when the Turks again arrived, there were no Greeks left to protest their "occupation." But whatever. Winners write the history!
 * Your suggestions all seem accurate and needed in the article. Student7 (talk) 13:40, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Bizarre statement
"Lake Tuz, traditionally known as Tuz Golu, is the second-largest lake in all of Turkey."

Tuz Golu, is the normal, standard name of this lake, in normal, standard, Turkish,  which is the normal, standard, and sole official language of Turkey, where this lake is. The name translates literally to English as "Tuz Lake".

To use the English phrase "..., traditionally known as ... ",  conveys an imputation that the second alternative name mentioned is somehow historic, obsolete, customary or unofficial,  which is clearly not the case.``Lathamibird (talk) 03:53, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


 * I've improved the wording. Power~enwiki (talk) 04:11, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The bigger problem is: "Lake Tuz (Turkish: Tuz Gölü meaning Salt Lake) is the second largest lake in Turkey with its 1,665 km2 (643 sq mi) surface area and one of the largest hypersaline lakes in the world. It is located in the Central Anatolia Region, 105 km (65 mi) northeast of Konya, 150 km (93 mi) south-southeast of Ankara and 57 km (35 mi) northwest of Aksaray." If the link is 100km from Konya, it's not in Konya city. Power~enwiki (talk) 04:13, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Dr. Oz
I have removed the reference of Dr. Oz as a notable person from Konya. Dr. Oz was born in Cleveland, Ohio. His father was from Konya, Turkey. Since Dr. Oz is not from Konya, I removed his name from the list of notable persons from this area. Please refer to the reference link below for details on the same: FlyingBlueDream (talk) 11:37, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * http://www.pbs.org/wnet/facesofamerica/profiles/dr-mehmet-oz/4/

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.europeanrailwayreview.com/10456/rail-industry-news/invensys-commissions-ertms-solution-on-turkish-high-speed-line/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150407030029/http://tehrantimes.com/arts-and-culture/3268-rumi-remembered-in-birth-place-of-shams to http://tehrantimes.com/arts-and-culture/3268-rumi-remembered-in-birth-place-of-shams

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