Talk:Koopalings

Cookie vs Kooky
Since the name "Kooky von Koopa" originates from the Super Mario Bros. 3 TV show, which was written *before* Super Mario World, the "Cookie Mountain" origin of the Kooky von Koopa name is impossible. -Unknown

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the other way around. It is pretty coincidental...

Kooky's accent
I notice a couple of you editing back and forth on this. Rather than a war, can someone find a sound clip of him talking? I can't remember his voice well enough to be sure, all I remember is it sounded Zany, and like a mad scientist. How about we include 'mad scientist' first, then a relation to the german accent. I think there may be some Einstein influence in the cartoon since he wasn't always doing music, but experiments as well, right? Tyciol 08:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Koopalings vs Koopa Kids
Shouldn't this article be "Koopalings", while Koopa Kid should be for the Mario Party character? - The_T
 * The Mario Party character is only called that in Mario Party 6 and is in this article under Bowser Junior anyhow. Koopa Kid is more common than Koopaling, I think. Andre ( talk ) 04:09, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Mario Party character was first given the name Koopa Kid in Mario Party 4. I don't know offhand if Bowser or the Koopa Kids themselves mentioned it on the boards, but if he wins the unlockable volleyball game, his name is clearly displayed as Koopa Kid. I might also add that he's also playable in Mario Party 5, and you can easily see his name there by winning a game. Again, it says Koopa Kid. Agent CH 21:04:04, 2005-08-13 (UTC)

Koopa Kids is used in the American cartoon rather than Koopalings, but it's also the name of the guys from Mario Party. So, it's easy enough to merge the characters into one article.

Mario Sunshine reference to Bowser as a dad
It's been a long time since I played Mario Sunshine, but wasn't Bowser in the game as a very minor character or referenced in speech? It had something to do with "Dad told me __" or something? If that was true how is this possible credible? -Unknown
 * Bowser makes an important appearance in this game at the very end. He and Jr. even have a conversation with words (subtitles optional). Bowser says somthing like, "Jr, there's something I need to tell you." "Yeah, I know. Princess Peach isn't really my mamma." Hints are made at a possible reapearance in a future game: "Someday, when I'm bigger," Bowser Jr. says, "I'm gonna fight that Mario again!"

Bowser Jr. in Yoshi's Story and Mario Party
Unless someone can provide an official source stating that the young Bowsers in Yoshi's Story and the Mario Party are definitely not Bowser Jr., it can't be stated outright while retaining NPOV. Andre ( talk ) 18:29, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * "whereas others believe that this is merely the older Bowser as a child ("Baby Bowser")."

I guess I don't get it. K1Bond007 08:36, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yoshi's Story is a prequel to Yoshi's Island. Bowser Jr. couldn't possibly be older than Mario.--A Link to the Past 04:31, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * That first assertion isn't necessarily true. Andre ( talk ) 15:59, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, but my second assertion, I see little reason to believe it false. Different name, the fact that Kamek is never involved with Bowser Jr., and the fact that he's a child in YI, as are Mario and Luigi.--A Link to the Past 20:38, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Bowser Jr. is certainly younger than Mario, yes. But he isn't in YI - that's Baby Bowser, without a doubt. Bowser Jr. is Bowser's son, the one in Sunshine. Andre ( talk ) 17:54, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * I rewrote it. See if that works. Starting off the section with a "controversy" whether a real one or not isn't good writing IMHO. So if this edit isn't that great, at least rewrite it to start off with whats 100& fact before you get into grey. K1Bond007 01:48, May 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I just clarified the bit about YS. Andre ( talk ) 20:03, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

The Bowser in Yoshi's Story is definately Baby Bowser, as apposed to Bowser Jr. It actually says on the box "Baby Bowser has taken the Super Happy Tree and cast a spell on Yoshi's world." Can this be edited into the main article, or is there still any ambiguity? Yoshi's Story US Box Art
 * I changed the info on the Bowser page to point out that it's Baby Bowser in YS, citing that the manual says "Baby Bowser" twice. No one's argued against it. Agent CH 19:35, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Done.
 * Agreed: thanks. I like it when these little quibbles can be put to rest Kidicarus222 20:03, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, Bowser Jr. was created by King Bowser Koopa, while the seven Koopalings older than him are biological to Bowser. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com

Um, Yoshi's Story ain't a prequel to Yoshi's Island. Two inconsistancies: Bowser's more capable of better speech, and Bowser also makes a direct reference to Mario.

Lemmy Koopa's Life
To most fans, Lemmy Koopa had a Star Ball since he was a baby. When he was 1 year old, he only learned to walk on his Star Ball. He did not learn to walk on the ground until he was 7 years old. By the time he turns 9 years old, he will run his shows. He's the crazy clown in the family. He speaks pretty good Japanese, he calls his father Bowser, "Chichi-Oo", which is Japanese for "King Dad" or "King Father". He never ceases to play with his Star Ball. Even though, he wants Princess Peach to be a clown. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com
 * Where's the source for this? I don't think we can include this... Tyciol 08:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Considering it says "to most fans" it's obviously fan fiction

Other females besides Wendy O. Koopa
The other females for Wendy O. Koopa are, Princess Peach, Princess Daisy, Birdo, and Toadette.
 * Other females in the Super Mario series you mean? Yes, although Birdo is originally questionable. Furthermore, there's the unnamed mother of Bowser's kids, Toadstools nanny (and all the characters' mothers), the pink Axem Ranger, female Yoshis and Queen Nimbus. Tyciol 08:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Mario Party Koopa Kid
I think the Koopa Kid from Mario Party was named Baby Cohort. I think it's something like that. -Nicholas
 * In the first Party, he was addressed as both Cohort and Baby Bowser. Then in 2 and 3, it was just Baby Bowser, and from 4 on he was called Koopa Kid. Agent CH 19:36, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Ludwig Theory
I say delete that crap. Ludwig looks nothing like Bowser Jr., and the basis on said therory is poor. -Unknown
 * Agreed. I think there's a limit to how much speculation one could put on the Wikipedia page. The Ludwig theory is too much. Kidicarus222 20:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)New super mario bros wii blows that out of the water

Hip and Hop mixup
The original writer of this article wrote that Lemmy's name in the cartoons was Hop, and Iggy's was Hip. I fixed all that, as Lemmy is Hip, while Iggy is Hop. Proof of this comes from the SMB3 episode "7 Continents for 7 Koopas". King Koopa cleary orders Hip (Lemmy) to take over North America, and Hop (Iggy) to take over South America. Also, in the SMW episode "A Little Learning", when Hip is with the good guys without Hop, Princess Toadstool clearly refers to him as Hip.

Who is Morton Sr.
Under Morton Jr., I added a sentence about Bowser always having been known only as Koopa in Japan, so it is possible that his given name actually is Morton. This was something of a revelation I had last night in bed. Any comments about the inclusion? -- J44xm 16:02, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it shouldn't go on the Wikipedia. As pure fan speculation, sure, but there's no evidence that Bowser's Japanese name is "Morton Koopa" whatsoever. For all we know, Koopa is his first name is he has no last name. Furthermore, since the Japanese release of SMB3 didn't name the Koopa Kids, I think it's fairly unlikely that Bowser would have been retroactively re-named to suit the American name given t one of his children. Kidicarus222 20:48, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Whether or not the name Morton was given to Bowser is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he has a son, that son is assumed to be biological and considered his son in status, and that his son's name is Morton, with the Suffix Junoir. Junior implies a senior, and in naming concention this implies that the father shares the name.

No Bowser's father is caller Morton Sr, and named his son after him making him Morton Jr. -Unknown
 * Total fan theory, Bowser's father has never been mentioned or named. -VederJuda 19:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Wow! I'm so surprised noone here knows where the "jr." came from. (then again; I always wondered where "Wendy O" came from, but then I'm not a punk fan). It has nothing to do with any "Sr." in the Mario/Nintendo game world; but rather a real life father and son name.

He is obviously a caricature of the late Morton Downey Jr., who had a somewhat popular political talk show on superstation WWOR around the time Super Mario 3 came out! His very logo used on the podiums and in the background in the studio had a large open mouth similar to the one drawn on this Koopaling, and when he would call someone up to the podium, he would say "step up to "the Loudmouth". In fact, Nintendo further hinted at this in the original SMB3 player's guide when instructing you on how to defeat him, you would "...cancel Morton's show for good". And the cartoon name "Big Mouth" played on his trademark as well.

I met him right in Times Sq. during this period, shook his hand, and then my friend, a street evangelist begins preaching at him as he tries to hail a cab; and Morton grabs the mic, and they are going at each other, just like on the show. One of the funniest scenes in my life!

One of the last things you heard about him before he died several years ago, is when he came to the aid of the similarly named Robert Downey Jr. (NO relation!) who was in drug rehab, or soomething like that, IIRC.Eric B 01:47, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Bowser Jr. Corrections
Bowser Jr.'s scarf in Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour is not the same one from Super Mario Sunshine. It's the one with the teeth. I have some proof here, taken from the "Spotlight On: Shadow Characters" video from the official Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour website: Also, according to the article, it says that Bowser Jr. "only has two small fangs at the top of his mouth", but if you look closely, it's only one, not two. This Mario Superstar Baseball artwork clearly shows this.
 * Putting
 * Par dance
 * Scarf down
 * I'm the one who added all that, and I've never actually played Bowser Jr. in that game. I got so bored I gave up. Thanks for the pics though, I've been looking for some for a while now.
 * Meh, I've been back and forth on this one. It doesn't help when he's only appeared scarf down in two games and all the official artwork is taken from the right hand side. I assumed his teeth would be symmetrical, unless he lost one. Most of the other koopa kids have two, and I don't see any reason for Junior to be different. I just put it down to the angle. We'll probably never know for sure until Nintendo produce some artwork from the other side. For now I'll go with logic over observation. I'm not trying to be mean, I just wanted to show you the errors you've made, that's all. - NES Boy 21:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Koopalings in MSB?
Where did this stuff about the Koopalings delivering the challenge flyer come from? Agent CH 21:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Another thing to add is Bowser JR is actually Ludwig. The reason they changed his name and appearence is to match Bowser and as if they put 1 Koopa kid in they basically have to put the rest in, so there is only 7 Koopa kids.*
 * Another fan theory, which is generally believed as false. -- VederJuda 19:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'd like to see some confirmation that the Koopalings are in the game. I have a video file of the Superstar Baseball intro, and I don't see the Koopalings anywhere in it. That would be cool if they were in the game, though. - Nintendo Maximus
 * It's also wrong on the newspaper bit, the challenge was eaither a leaflet (in the intro movie) or a letter (in the begining of the story mode). I'm removing the bit because I haven't seen them either. -- VederJuda 03:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Ludwig spelling
The proper spelling of the character's name is Ludwig von Koopa. Although the namesake was Ludwig van Beethoven, the German spelling is used for the Koopa kid.

The V in Von is capitalized.

No, it's not. Play Super Mario World. When Ludwig's name appears after you beat him, it clearly says "Ludwig von Koopa".

Absurd "named after" information
I have access to a very large library of old Nintendo Powers, and have been a longtime follower of these characters, even going so far as having run my own fan website for the past few years for these characters, and I've never heard that Iggy Koopa was named after Iggy Pop or that Wendy O Koopa was named after some lead singer of some ridiculous punk band. Even if true, it's obscure information even for hardcore fans, but I'm willing to bet it's just speculation by fans of those musical artists. In any case, I would like a source, or I'm removing it.
 * I think the influence of musical names on Koopalings is clear, but I'll see if I can find an official source. The SMB3 localization team had a sense of humor: for example, Boo Diddly (a clear homage to Bo Diddly). Andre (talk) 18:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Larry Koopa is named after larry king? It's all too much. An encyclodedia is a place for known facts, not speculation, even "clear" speculation. But if you can come up with an official source, I'd be all for including it. -Unknown
 * It was fan speculation, but with names like Ludwig von Koopa (Ludwig van Beethoven), Wendy O. Koopa (Wendy O. Williams), and Morton Koopa Jr. (Morton Downey Jr.), it seemed pretty obvious; even Roy Koopa's name combined with his sunglasses points to Roy Orbison. Of the other three, I think Larry's is the most in doubt, since Larry King is not a musician, even Morton Downey Jr. dabbled in the music biz. I'm thinking he might have been named after Lawrence Gowan (who put out an album called "You can call me Larry", though it came out in '93). --VederJuda 03:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Well, not with the Larry Gowan thing, really, but with I'm fairly certain it's plausible that at least some of the Koopa Kids are fairly obviously named after those celebrities. If having this info in the Koopa Kids' various sections isn't acceptable, then I think a small section merely speculating on this association would be okay. Kidicarus222 03:53, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Even if some of it is attractive speculation, it's still speculation, and there's too much of it passed off as known fact in this article. Even the more famous and perhaps obvious speculations like with Ludwig's name; you just never know for certain because it isn't confirmed information, and thus has no place in an encylopedia entry. For all we know, he was named after any number of "Ludwig vons" in history (just look them all up in wikipedia). Until someone speaks with the NOA employee who named them, I could speculate that he was named after biologist Ludwig von Bertalanffy, and that opinion would be as good as any. As for the other fan speculations: even I as a hardcore fan have never heard of them until I read this article, and each stretch the imagination so far as to be laughable. -sgt_goomba

Another thing that bothers me. In the Larry section, it says: "Larry Koopa is the youngest of the Koopalings. (Although Iggy is called the youngest in the official Super Mario World player's guide.)" That doesn't make sense to me. If Nintendo officialy declared Iggy the youngest in their official players guide, what source exactly trumps that official declaration to make larry the youngest, and why isn't it mentioned here? I'm suggesting that the information stating that larry is the youngest be removed pending a source. And as far as I'm concerned, if Nintendo says iggy is the youngest, then he is. Suggesting we add that information to the Iggy section. -sgt_goomba
 * The Player's Guide for SMA4: Super Mario Bros. 3 says Larry's the youngest. It says their order of ages, from youngest to oldest, is the order you face them in the game. BTW, when you say the "Super Mario World player's guide", do you mean for the original, or for the remake on the GBA? Agent CH 18:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know, I haven't seen it. It was already mentioned in the article, which I quoted above. I suggest that when faced with conflicting information, newer information trumps older information, in which case Larry is the youngest if your source is correct. We could mention the conflicting information in the article, but I think it'd be needlessly confusing and awkward. -Unknown
 * Do you have a picture of that? I thought it only confirmed that Larry was the youngest and Ludwig was the oldest. Plus if the order you face them is their birth order does that mean their ages change by game? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.161.103 (talk) 08:49, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Something to be aware of
There seems to be/have been a small community of big Koopa Kid fans. I'm pretty sure they existed over a small group of web pages, but this seems to have contracted now to one site, www.lemmykoopa.com, where most Koopa Kid fan art/fiction/other stuff ends up. It's still pretty active, as of writing this. Now, the point here is that because so much fan fiction and art was created and viewed by a relatively small number of people who also chatted and possibly RPed, there's now a pseudo-mythos surrounding the whole area. A perfect example of this is the character Karma Koopa. Spend 10 or 15 minutes on lemmykoopa.com and you'd probably think she's a canon character. More subtle details like ages or even just personality traits are also likely to have undergone this process. Therefore, it's important for anybody editing this article to make sure they know their sources and know that the info that they're posting is true and canon. --Justdig 19:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Big Mouth and Bully voice mix up
I know that a lot of people that think that Dan Hennessey is the voice of Big Mouth Koopa and that Gordon Masten is the voice of Bully Koopa. Despite what sites like IMDB or TV.com says, that simply is not true. It is a fact that Gordon Masten is the voice of Big Mouth and Dan Hennessey is the voice of Bully.

That is such a lie!

For the last time.
There is no evidence to indicate any of that "named after" information. The person who came up with that information (Koopa Prince) says on his webpage that he is basically guessing at their names, and doesn't have any solid evidence to back up his guesses.

Voices of Hip and Hop
According to Jeff Lenburg's The Encyclopedia of Animated Cartoons (ISBN 0816038317), Hip was voiced by Stuart Stone, and Hop was voiced by Tara Strong.

Koopa names
Please remove this 'named after' stuff until an official source is named and mentioned.

Unused Koopalings in SPP?
Part of this article mentions "unused sprites" of the Koopalings in Super Princess Peach. Unless there is some proof of these "sprites" (ie, a link to pics and/or article), shouldn't this be removed?


 * I've seen the sprite sheet for Morton, but I don't remember where. I do agree with you, there should be a link (as a reference) to the location or else it should be dropped. Don't drop it right away, let's give someone a chance to find a link. -- VederJuda 01:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if there are other Koopalings besides the finished Morton sprites in the game, so maybe we can take off the detail that "others will be available as well" since we don't know at this point if the rest are hidden. Anyway, here it is: http://www.mfgg.net/index.php?act=resdb&param=02&c=1&id=2506

Iggy: Inventor of the Koopas' Machinery?
I think it's true that Iggy is an inventor, but I'm not sure what the source is, or if it's even official. Anyone know for sure?

Larry Koopa in Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends
I just got done watching that very episode, and I did not see him anywhere in it. Does someone have a pic to prove he was in it?

"Celebrity inspirations" = URBAN LEGEND
It really ticks me off when the "western celebrities" information is put in. The person who came up with it is a Super Mario fan by the name of koopaprince who once owned a website called Super Mario Brothers Info Station, and is a member of my forum at my website koopatorivm.com, which is another Super Mario Fan website. He made a webpage listing posible inspirations, but he stated on that webpage that he simply had a thought occur to him and he had no evidence for it. In fact, he stated that it was probably NOT TRUE, and he was just listing those possible celebrity inspirations for fun. Please please please do not put in that information. It is a urban legend, and it especially annoys me because I know personally the person who started it. (edit: not that I don't like the person, I do. It's just that it annoys me that so many people assume something is true that I know for a fact is not. This isn't really his fault, because he prefaced his page stating that he was making the whole thing up and it was just a thought.)
 * How do you "know for a fact" it's not true? Ludwig von Koopa, Wendy O. Koopa, Morton Koopa Jr. (just for example)? Those point directly to Ludwig van Beethoven, Wendy O. Williams, and Morton Downey Jr. respectively. It can't just be coincidence. Agent CH 14:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The difference between fact and coincidence is corroberating evidence. Most of that information is just random speculation from fans, with no supporting evidence. I've already conceded that LVK might represent LVBeethoven, because there is references in comics and such that he enjoys composing symphonies, has crazy hair, etc. And funny you should just mention those examples, and not the other more dubious ones that usually come with them, like lemmy/what'shisface from "motorhead."
 * Is Lemmy a common name? Or rather, was it at the time SMB3 came out? Agent CH 16:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd like to note to the person at the beginning of this section that your friend did not "start" the theory that these characters were named for famous people. I have heard this theory as far back as within months of when the game first came out.  I can remember someone remarking on how Roy Koopa reminded them of Roy Orbison even before hearing the character's name.  And this was long before I obtained a connection to the Internet, or even knew what it was, for that matter.  That said, however, I agree that we should use restraint and only discuss the origin of the names of the characters where it is very obvious who they are named for; in my opinion that would be Morton, Wendy, Ludwig and Lemmy (there are no other Lemmys I've ever heard of that even approach the level of fame of Kilmister).  Roy seems obvious to me, because of the physical resemblance, but I leave that decision to someone else.  Iggy and Larry are common enough names that nothing should be said (though Google's top hits for just "Iggy" by and large favor Mr. Pop).  And that's my $0.02.

This is the guy that started this thread. Even though I still think the information shouldn't be here, I do appreciate the person who decided to provide more information about the basis for the speculation, some corroborating evidence, and to soften the statement to make it not so much a declaration of known fact. I'll leave that information alone. But I'm still going to delete any statement that just simply declares "so and so is named after some celebrity period", unless you can cite some interview from some translator who admits to their inspiration.

Lemmy Koopa's Picture
I noticed that Lemmy's picture was gone and we need to restore it. I don't know how though. Coconufred73 21:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Fictional Christians?
I was wondering, why are the Koopa Kids/Koopalings in the fictional christians category?

Kids other then Morton in Super Princess Peach
This set of ripped sprites shows that there were others besides Morton that were planned to be in. They just weren't put together into sheets, as they apparently are harder to assemble. --69.175.56.3 05:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

"Not initiially named?"
"Nintendo did not initially name them for their debut in the Japanese version of Super Mario Bros. 3. In the Japanese version of Super Mario World only the kids' first names are given."

... Source? I've seen a manual comparison picture where the Koopalings' names clearly aren't given in that particular Japanese page, but what about player's guides and such? Surely there's an alternative but official Japanese source on this. 208.101.136.230 21:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not that surprising. The names were given to the Koopa Kids by NoA for Super Mario Bros. 3 (in Japan they were simply the "Ko-Koopa"). But I have never seen the Kids' full names given on any Japanese website I have visited. They are only referred to by their first names, which suggests no source for their full names exists in Japan.
 * Also remember that "Koopa" is the name of Bowser in Japan, and not his surname like it is in the West. The Ko-Koopa would not use Koopa as their surname if it was their dad's first name, and so it has been excised. (Fryguy64 10:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC))

The edit war
Well.. isn't it better to discuss the topic first instead of making edit wars? And there is a 3RR rule and I'm afraid it has been violated. Please, both of you, take a deep breath and try to discuss the matter of the source (or find another one). Thanks, Andrij Kursetsky   &#8855;  17:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

An Image from a Fan-site is acceptable. There are no rules for Images Angry Sun 17:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * You're probably right, but the other side also thinks its version is better. All of the sources must be reliable – I don't say your source is not – and so thinks the IP. However, if both of you won't climb down, the edit war will take ages. Please, consider not editing the article and focus on discussion. Andrij Kursetsky   &#8855;  17:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * no rules for images, meaning no EXCEPTIONS for images. so they are subject to the same rules as everything else unless something says otherwise.75.69.230.146 17:46, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wrong again.
 * Every image here.
 * The artwork? Fan-Site.


 * What I'm trying to get through your thick head is that IMAGES ARE ALLOWED!
 * NO MATTER WHAT SITE THEY COME FROM! Now get your head out of the gutter and listen. Angry Sun 17:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * then upload it and tag it. don't link to a version hosted on a fan site. also, "thick head"? another flame, i.e., another hypocritical personal attack.75.69.230.146 18:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Look at the "personal attack" article. Angry Sun 18:37, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ok and? it says there is no specific rule, but I would like to know how the fuck you interpret ME insulting YOU as a personaly attack, but not YOU insulting me?75.69.230.146 18:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Now see IF I were to call you a idiot.
 * That's an attack.


 * "Thick Head" is not.
 * Thick head is something all people say.
 * And it usually helps people think. Angry Sun 18:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * you called me a fool! that is the same thing! and how is saying I have a thick head (an old expression meaning someone is stupid) any less insulting or any less of an attack? any implication that I am stupid is an insult75.69.230.146 18:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Can we just forget this whole freaking thing... Angry Sun 18:49, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

IGN Podcast Listeners...?
Should it be mentioned that IGN editors call their podcast listeners Koopalings ("Keep it cool, Koopalings!")? I'm not sure how this stands in Notability World. Venku Tur&#39;Mukan (talk) 21:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Larry Koopa's name
The article says that Larry Koopa was named after U2 drummer Larry Mullen Jr. - I'd like to add that to his biography, but the "source" simply says that is according to former NOA employee Dayv Brooks. After lots of searching, the supposed reference turns out to be an edit to the Super Mario Wiki article on Larry by a user called Dayvvbrooks. There's no way to actually verify that they are one and the same person here. So is there an actual source that can be used for the claim? As it stands, it's about as unreliable a source as there can be. Melicans (talk, contributions) 02:38, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Larry Koopa's name
As well as the U2 drummer Larry Mullen Jr., Larry Koopa is also thought to be named after the comedian Larry King. Ofcdeadbeat (talk) 18:48, 13 February 2017 (UTC)Ofcdeadbeat
 * All serous source I've seen have opposed that theory.★Trekker (talk) 18:50, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

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Voice actor info
I've been reverted without explanation on my recent cleanup efforts, so I figured I'd attempt a discussion, even though it's pretty basic policy and guideline violation: In short, none of it should have been restored, due to both sourcing and quality issues. Sergecross73  msg me  19:05, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) The VA section is not properly sourced. Not allowed per WP:V.
 * 2) The VA info isn't particularly notable to begin with. They're all minor characters who rarely say anything more than grunts, laughs, and short catchphrases like "I won!"
 * 3) The commentary from a VA complaining about their voice clips being used is from an unreliable source.
 * 4) There's nothing shocking about re-using minor voice clips, especially considering point #2 above.
 * 5) The VA's griping adds little value to an article about the fictional characters themselves. It's an WP:UNDUE tangent.
 * Hello, I am responsible of the revert, I reverting your edits because you detel sourced information (totally valid source) credit of end to indicate that the actors follow have participate to the voice cast of games, voxophil recognition (be familiar whit the voice of certain actors and recognize who it is thanks to the credit, and some information confirmed by the voicer themselves which can be found in particular on behind voice actor goodbye 81.185.172.0 (talk) 20:26, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * None of that is valid reasoning on Wikipedia. "Voxophil recognition" is not a valid source on Wikipedia. Nor did you address any of my other policy and guidelines concerns. If that's the extent of your reasoning, then the content needs to be removed. Sergecross73   msg me  20:36, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Serge. As he stated, they're minor characters and this is unsourced. The quality of the voice work or the notability of the actual VA hasn't been covered by any reliable sources. Compare that to something like "Chris Pratt is voicing Mario" which is covered by dozens of sources. At best, they should just be tied to those particular VAs' articles (if they even exist) instead of listed here. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 00:14, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * or if you want i also can put some valid source 88.26.229.98 (talk) 07:29, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * That WP:BURDEN would be on you in this scenario. But you keep ignoring half of my argument - these characters hardly have voices at all. It's not worth listing even if we have sources. Sergecross73   msg me  11:48, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Does Behind the Voice Actors qualify as a reliable source? I can't tell how it gets its information and it seems to be user-generated content. EDIT: There seems be some internal approval process for VAs and their roles to be added. However, I still agree with the stance that the inclusion of the VAs isn't necessary at all. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 02:53, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:VG/S lists it as "inconclusive", with the discussion having concerns related to WP:USERG. So...it's not looking good. Sergecross73   msg me  03:43, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Repeated removal of image caption
I cannot understand why, but an IP keeps removing the part of the caption that gives the name for each character. If the caption is wrong, fix it, don't delete it. In a article that groups multiple characters in under an umbrella term, the individual characters names are essentially. Considering they rarely change in appearance, what game the image is from (the only part of the caption that isn't being removed) is probably the least important thing to note, ironically. Sergecross73  msg me  18:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll also note that two separate editors oppose the removal now too, and if the unexplained removals don't stop, the page is likely to get locked from anonymous editing, as I have a feeling that it's the same person who keeps making these weird, unexplained edits. (See section directly above too.) Sergecross73   msg me  18:08, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Repeated removal of in-universe information from infobox
The Koopalings relation to Bowser in their respective games keeps being removed from the infobox, with the only reason given being "non-sense" despite being sourced in the body of the article. Is there an issue with the sources? Blushmallorn (talk) 17:04, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * that's not really a question of source but more of a question of reasonableness, it makes no sense to say that Bowser was their father at the time but don't have him anymore, that's how it was confirmed officially in 2012 that the Koopalings are not Bowser's children and therefore never were though he was considered that way at the time Doobledab (talk) 18:29, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreeing with Doobledab, even the in-universe relations are not consistent and it's silly to detail such a retcon in the infobox. It's better to just say they're his minions, since it's a catch-all for all games. ThomasO1989 (talk) 18:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Merge discussion
I don't believe that the Koopalings have the independent, significant coverage needed to meet the WP:GNG and warrant its own standalone article. If there's significant coverage out there, its no represented in the article or easily found.


 * Merge per own proposal above. Sergecross73   msg me  18:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose – These two IGN articles are likely significant coverage; the Kotaku source covers the characters' development (so does Nintendo Life); things like #ProjectWendy are noteworthy bits of reception (is TwinGalaxies reliable for things like this?). I didn't do a big check for every Koopaling individually, nor all the names the group has gone by. I do, however, distinctly remember New Super Mario Bros. U-era Koopaling despise and Odyssey-era love for their Broodal replacements, which may also be good. Even without that though, I think it should be enough to pass GNG. DecafPotato (talk) 20:21, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge The article is frankly reaching for any sort of significant criticism about them. They are very shallow characters and it will be tough to prove they matter to non-fans of the series, with most coverage in reliable sources being about their name origins and appearance. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:29, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge. Agreeing with above. The bulk of the article is just listing every game they were in. The entirety of "In other media" is unsourced too. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 00:49, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge for now. I think it's possible someone could write a decent article about the Koopalings, but I don't think the article, as it stands, meets notability requirements. I think merging it for now, with potential for splitting it out again somewhere down the line, is the right call. JOE BRO 64  02:16, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think there is absolutely potential, the article just isn't there (or anywhere close) yet. But I think merging it just because it is a bad article currently is a WP:TIND/WP:ATD-E thing. If the potential is there, the article shouldn't be merged, regardless of the article's current state. DecafPotato (talk) 18:01, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Your comments apply to deletion, not merging. This proposal is completely in-line with WP:MERGEREASON, particularly point #5. Sergecross73   msg me  18:07, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge to Characters in the Mario franchise. Appears as a feature in a game; sources do not describe the characters having independent notability as a group, distinct from other Mario franchise elements. To the sources above, the Kotaku article is highlighting trivia (many reasons why we should not use Kotaku highlighted at WT:VG) and the IGN articles only discuss the characters in in-universe context of the series/game, which means we should discuss them in the same light: in a characters or series article. czar  07:30, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe you merged this into Characters in the Mario franchise#Koopalings. Please bring it back 173.73.53.73 (talk) 16:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that goes against consensus, most of the users above support merging, where I think it is at the correct place. I also think this merge discussion should be closed as well since the merging has already been done. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 20:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge - to work in the same principle as the German version and include the image used in the intended article linked immediately above where some of the content belongs after the potential merge. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 16:46, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Restoring Page
Given the above discussion neglected to go through the proper channels (a merge template) despite discussion, could we start a new official discussion to restore the page, with better referencing? It seems as high-quality as any other Mario franchise Wikipedia page. Lo Chiamavano (talk) 19:03, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Anyone is free to open up a new discussion on anything, but unless you've found some new coverage, you're unlikely to to persuade people, and if you don't have a new consensus to restore it, it stays merged. Sergecross73   msg me  19:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You can always open a discussion to split the article back out. However, it will likely require more sources and a good draft article, because the previous discussion had a fairly clear consensus. (And also, out of curiosity, why did you ping me specifically for this question?). DecafPotato (talk) 19:12, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Likely because you're the only Oppose in the above discussion and thus on the same "side". Selective pinging could be seen as a violation of WP:INAPPNOTE. Anyway, given how recent and strong the prior consensus is, I agree that a solid WP:DRAFT that participants can look at is basically a prerequisite BEFORE opening a new discussion. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:30, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I assumed it was an attempt to WP:CANVASS the only person who opposed the merge as well. But yes, fully support people creating a WP:DRAFT and working on improving it there. I hope they aim to make massive improvements though, as it's most recent pre-merge status was far from passing Wikipedia's notability requirements. Sergecross73   msg me  17:11, 16 April 2023 (UTC)