Talk:Korean Jindo/Archive 1

Picture
I dont think that the dog in the name box is Jindo dog. It is half-breed or ddonggae. --Hairwizard91 02:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Editing History Section
I have deleted the paragraph in the History section about Jindo dogs being eaten by Koreans during Korean War. It is true that food was very scarce during the war and many Koreans resorted to eating whatever they could get their hands on including dogs but Jindo dogs were not specifically chosen to be eaten. The whole section is irrelevant. If anybody disagrees, please cite reliable sources to refute my position.

These type of dogs are also still eaten today so what's so irrelevant about WW2? It still happens today - do you need proof of that as well?

I also intend to delete the paragraph about the WWII and Japanese actions as it seems completely groundless. I have not seen any sources in either Korean or English that discuss what was described in the paragraph. If anyone objects to this potential edit, please state your opinion here.

The entire article reads like it is translated from the Korean.

Gillyruless 14:41, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Major Edits
I intend to do a major update of the article over the coming weeks using the FCI breed standard document and the articles on the Jindo County's Jindo dog page as it is of poor quality and includes items that seem to be factually inaccurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gillyruless (talk • contribs) 21:08, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Name
Just sort of casually reading this article confused me. What is the actual name of this breed? "Korea Jindo dog", "Korean Jindo dog", "Jindo Dog, "Jindo dog", or "Jindo"?


 * I believe "Korea Jindo Dog" is the official AKC designation... of course in Korea it's just known as the "Jindo Dog," and "Jindo" is the natural short form in either case. Capitalization varies based on one's understanding of whether dog breed names are proper nouns or not.  -- Visviva 02:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The AKC doesn't recognize the Jindo as a breed. The Kennel Club in the UK, however, has accepted the breed and officially refers to it as the "Korean Jindo".  I think the addition of "Dog" helps to call out the dog versus the island. Shadlingfae (talk) 05:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think this breed needs a name change. The most popular name seems to be Jindo Dog or Jindo (dog). If no one agrees, it should at least be changed to Korean Jindo Dog instead of Korea. Vortex (talk) 08:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Further Picture Comments
Most of the dogs pictured do not appear to be purebred Jindos. Although there is nothing really wrong with that, it should at least be called out since they are not an accurate reference for the breed. I've done my best to determine which are most likely to be mixes or non-Jindos.

First Picture - Possibly Pure Second Picture - Possibly Pure (although Jindo tails do not typically curl over like a Shiba). Third Picture - Very difficult to tell due to limited view of the dog. Fourth Picture - Very unlikely to be a Jindo. It looks like a shepherd mix perhaps. Fifth Picture - Not a pure Jindo. The obvious sign is the tail which is not fluffy on a Jindo.

Shadlingfae (talk) 05:13, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Third picture is a pure breed. I took the picture. :) --Arotto (talk) 14:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Abandoned in the US
Some source to verify that Jindo Dogs are abandoned in the US in particular. I know it happens in Korea but the sentence seems more like an opinion. Just trying to look for some verification or proof of this. For now a "citation needed" has been placed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.95.178.101 (talk) 09:01, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Date of national treasure Jindo Dog listing?
Can someone verify somewhere the year in which the Korea Jindo Dog became a national treasure? An anon user dinked with the year in the article and all I can find on the web so far are duplicates of the wikipedia article. Elf | Talk 21:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Since Korea did not have its own government in 1938 (being under Japanese rule), and since the "no. X national treasure" business is peculiar to the South Korean government, I'm willing to bet that the anon is right. -- Visviva 09:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The Cultural Heritage Administration of Korea avers that 1962 is correct, and also that the Jindo dog is a natural monument (천연기념물), not a cultural one.  I was interested to discover through another source that the Japanese colonial administration did actually have a Chosen Cultural Treasures law of some sort, but I can't find any information about what it covered.  -- Visviva 09:39, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Copied from Korean discussion page:


 * it was apparently originally designated a national treasure in 1938 (under japanese colonial gov't), but with the 1962 national treasure protection law, it was re-designated & protected. korean wikipedia has 1962 as the date of designation. Appleby 22:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Do you have reference for that info that I can cite? Elf | Talk 22:09, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * i found it in the first three korean results here it seems undisputed, but i guess these have the most legitimate-sounding url's:     Appleby 22:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Jindo dog was designated a national treasure on 12/03/1962 by South Korean Government. Refer to the Cultural Heritage Website (in English) maintained by Cultural Heritage Administration of Korean government, which is cited in the main article references section. Hkwon (talk) 04:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism by 151.203.21.223
I have noticed a user 151.203.21.223 (who did not even sign in to reveal his/her true identity) vandalized this article several times using words like "gay" and "homosexuality". If this happens again, I will consult with editors to dismiss this vadal out of wikipedia.Hkwon (talk) 08:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Fluff Piece
This whole article is pretty horribly biased, saying such wonderful things about the "renowned" Jindo, comparing it to other dogs unfairly without sources or anythings. I think this whole article needs to be re written. Maybe by a vet or something.


 * Agreed. The article is extremely bias and rather counter to information I've received from my vet. I have a Jindo mix, and have met with vets and breeders to discuss Jindo and Jindo mix dogs many times. In the article, other than the size standards for the dogs, parts such as Jindo's being "gentlemanly" is counter to what I've come to be informed by vets and breeders about Jindo dogs. One breeder told me that Jindo dogs are of national pride but are not as gentle as some would like to believe them to be. They are indeed very loyal and this trait often causes them to be extremely protective of their owner, which can result in displays of aggression. My dog displays this trait very clearly. Yeah, yeah, I know, I can't use any of this as citation, yadda yadda, but more detailed - perhaps non-Korean - sources should be more deeply looked into for the article. A sidebar: they are beautiful dogs. --Bentonia School (talk) 14:38, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this. I know from personal experience that jindos are extremely aggressive. Two of them attacked my coonhound today. The only reason my dog wasn't injured was because the dogs' owener had them on a leash and pulled them back. 76.102.94.69 (talk) 03:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

It really depends on how the jindo is raised or treated. My jindo is very loving and affectionate to family and friends. He is polite and always pauses before any doorway to let me pass first. He is also well socialized with other dogs and is a joy to have at the dog park. Many other owners love his energy because he tends to wear out their puppies with lots of running and wrestling. Also, because I have him meet new people every day, he now shows cautious curiosity around strangers rather than the typical jindo aloofness. The other bonus is that he's very clean, has no body odor and has NEVER had an accident in the house. (I once had a German Shepherd, and although I loved her, she definitely gave off doggy odor.) The trick with jindos is that you always have to anticipate what will motivate them to do what you want. They unfortunately won't do what you say just because they love you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Somstress (talk • contribs) 16:51, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

My Jindo is very protective of my family, true. This shows in her barely leaving our side when strangers approach us, although she never shows any hint of aggressivity against humans (we never got attacked, though). Other dogs however are kept away from us, usually by growling and barking. She is quite aggressive against other dogs, although it almost never gets as far as biting if we choose to let her loose. She is quite calm when we take her out of her territory, though. Visiting a dog fair causes no trouble at all and she doesn't molest any other dogs there. --88.153.178.39 (talk) 10:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

As with many wiki articles, this one was 1000000 times better when I last saw it about 2 yrs ago. Fluff? I would say; uninformative at best. Times were that people respected other opinions and did not see the need to impose their, invariably, limited knowledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boysunny (talk • contribs) 17:37, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * What is so fluff and biased about this article? Are you a Jindo/Dog hater? If you have an issue, find a reliable source that supports your opinion and edit the article. and please become a man/woman enough to leave your signature to reveal your identity with your opinion, instead of some Sinebot automatically leave your name. Hkwon (talk) 08:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

My experience with Jindos is that they are indeed gently, loyal and eager to please ... unless you treat them like shit. While most breeds can be beat into submission, Jindos tend to bite their owners if they think they can abuse them as part of "training". And Jindos that are treated well become very protective, resulting in aggression against other (possibly dangerous) dogs, although they get along just fine with humans and children. Arotto (talk)

"Nureongi" dogs
The English word "Nureongi" is Korean in origin. It refers to a special type of dog which is bred and intended for the production of dog meat and not for use as a pet or any other use. Does that mean it's a mixed breed dog?

In the Korean language, it seems to mean "yellow", "yellowish", "yellow dog", or "dog which is thought of as livestock." It seems to have a quite negative connotation, but I'm probably not the best judge of that fact.

Zoologically, however, it does seem to refer to a particular variety of the subspecies "domestic dog," either Canis lupus dingo or Canis lupus familiaris, or a combination of both. I would use the word "variety" if they were plants, but as they are dogs, the word "breed" or "landrace" might apply. If, as has been claimed and seems to be the case, these dogs are artificially selected for certain features, the word "breed" might be better. But it seems that no dog organization has recognized the Korean Nureongi dog or Korean Edible Livestock Dog or whatever it might be called, a breed.

To see one of these dogs, one only has to go to youtube and search for investigative reports on dog farming in Korea. These reports have a biased aganda to expose the treatment of these dogs, but please don't get too distracted. What breed of dog is the Nureongi? To my eye, they look very much like Jindos, and it's no surprise that Korean culture does not recognize them as such because, to use a shorthand, Jindos are loved and Nureongis are not. But factually, objectively, to a mammologist from Mars that had no agenda or feelings, are they not the same breed? If so, don't shouldn't that article be merged with this one? Chrisrus (talk) 18:19, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi. I hope the information I sent you to your talk page help create the "Nureongi" article. As I told you, Nureongis are mixed-breed dogs that have not been officially recognized by any dog clubs. Although Nureongis and Jindos might look alike, Jindos are quite rare and very expensive breed in South Korea, and it does not make sense economically to use Jindos for food. Hkwon (talk) 05:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

'C.l.familiaris or C.l.dingo?
On what authority is this animal given the taxon Canis lupus familiaris? I'm willing to bet that genetic testing would put it on the Canis lupus dingo side of the domestic dog clade, which, although it's named after the Australian Dingo, is originally a mainland eastern Asian animal and is found in many countries. Chrisrus (talk) 05:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Chrisrus: It looks as though they describe the Jindo as a cross between what we would consider a dingo(aboriginal dog)type and some dogs the Mongols had along with them so that's probably where the familiaris is coming from. If the dog was intentionally crossed and bred then it would fall in as familiaris. If it crossed on it's own by natural selection and evolution, then it would come in as actually a dingo hybrid??? Interesting. osm20Oldsingerman20 (talk) 19:08, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Abandoned in America
Having rescued several Jindo from Korean owners that brought their dogs with them secretly I have become familiar with the breed. First rescue took place in Alanta Georgia from an elderly couple and their son who is the one to contact me to see if anyone could help his parents out and since I did Basenji rescue he thought I would be able to guide them to a rescue for them. At the time it was 2004 and no one knew of any nor knew the breed. I contacted people in South Korea who gave me guidance and direction on the breed and it was at that time I took the Jindo into rescue and placed the parents and kept the male pup. I have rescued several over the years and have found out their interactions with people and find them to be loyal watchful cautious but very friendly once told all is well and a stramger to them is a friend. If I do not give the ok they remain on high watch and guarding not offering to attack but staying by my side on the ready. −−−− Keath Rhymer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keathr (talk • contribs) 02:50, 26 April 2011 (UTC)