Talk:Korsnäs

Errors
This is not good:

"In the 2004 Municipal elections Swedish People's Party got 100% of the votes, even more than some ruling parties in a single party system."

Duh, 100% is obviously more than some other parties! —Preceding unsigned comment added by T71024 (talk • contribs) 10:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Requested move
Korsnäs, Finland → Korsnäs – There is no reason to keep the article at "Korsnäs, Finland" since Korsnäs redirects to "Korsnäs, Finland" and there are no other places known by the name of "Korsnäs" to justify the title "Korsnäs, Finland". The name of the current article is also against normal naming conventions of Finnish cities and municipalities. -- TonyM ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!!  15:44, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The request succeeded with 63% support. --Dijxtra 11:54, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~
 * Support moves and all similar moves to simple names if there is no ambiguity. --Polaron | Talk 15:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * but there is. 00:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. No-brainer. See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements) discussion about applying same logic to US cities.  --Serge 17:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * no-brainer? You mean you did not use your brain? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 00:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support per NC and Category:Municipalities of Ostrobothnia Region. --Usgnus 06:43, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * which NC? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 00:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support there appears be little chance of confusion with this move --Edgelord 06:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * how did you measure this? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 00:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Support, there are a few other places in Finland and Sweden with the same name, but the municipality is by far the most famous one. --MoRsΞ 18:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose too many other meanings. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 00:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I can see you added some meanings of "Korsnäs" to Korsnäs. But wouldn't they be better off at Korsnäs (disambiguation)? -- TonyM ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!!  14:02, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Not only did he add some, but he changed the redirect page to a dab page in the middle of this move voting process.  All of the other uses of the name are either not notable enough to have existing articles, or are villages or "parts of towns" that are under different names.  Plus, anyone who supports having Korsnäs be a dab page can oppose this move. In the mean time, I've moved the newly created dab page to Korsnäs (disambiguation) and changed Korsnäs back to a redirect page to here, which is what it was when this survey was initiated until it was changed yesterday.  --Serge 22:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose. It seems to me that some of those other meanings (even if added by Tobias) might have articles some day.  If there's a reasonable chance of ambiguity, the complete title should be used.  Plus, this makes it obvious at a glance (should Korsnas redirect to Korsnas, Finland) which Korsnas you got, and whether you need to go to the disambig page (No need for a "this is about the Finnish city" hat note). SnowFire 20:03, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose --Inzulac 14:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. The Finnish locality looks to be the primary meaning, and as such should be at Korsnäs with a link to Korsnäs (disambiguation) at the beginning of the article. Olessi 15:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. Bolivian Unicyclist 00:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. While it is true that Korsnäs in Dalecarlia now formally is a part of Falun, this is due to the rather large new merged Swedish municipalities; and when it was listed as an independent unit (as in Svensk Uppslagsbok), it contained about 1400 inhabitants.JoergenB 19:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Could the listed or other company be name with a similar level of usage? It is the first result on a Google search. —Centrx→talk • 03:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You mean this site? It can be put under Korsnäs Packaging. -- TonyM ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!!  14:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Korsnäs AB is a paper mill of moderate size in Sweden and is of some recognition here in the Nordic countries (where there are litterally dozens other paper/pulp mills that are more famous), but I would say that the municipality of Korsnäs is more famous since it holds the record of being the most Swedish place on earth although it lies in Finland. MoRsΞ 20:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Edit war
There has been an edit war going on for some time regarding the Finnish name Ristitaipale. This name is again and again put in brackets right after Korsnäs in the article as an "old Finnish name". This case is to some extent comparable to that of Seinäjoki. This article does not begin "Seinäjoki (old Swedish name Östermyra)", which would be quite absurd, it rather explains that there historically was such a Swedish name which is hardly used at all today. "Ristitaipale" is apparently much less deeply rooted and even less used than "Östermyra", and of course it shouldn't possibly be treated in a more generous way than the old Swedish name for Seinäjoki. // 83.177.15.217 16:33, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a small difference, Östermyra was the official name for a period of the town's history, albeit no longer used for the town itself (but in some other contexts, e.g. "Östermyra school", "Östermyra Swedish Association", "Östermyra-days" etc...), "Ristitaipale" on the other hand, has never had any sort of status, neither official, nor unofficial. I have been in contact with people from that area and they all say that it was only a suggested name - that it was never accepted into use. It is never used today except within Fennoman circles, who constantly try to erase Swedish history from Finland. (Also the "proof" that is given, i.e. the geneology-site, it works so that you can suggest corrections to the site, that sounds very suspicious to me, as if some of these pro-Ristitaipale individuals has done so. 192.176.237.2 17:11, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Bullshit, I have found many references where is standing Ristitaipale. And now you are try to cover it? --85.156.136.58 19:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And where are these references which would prove a historical "common use" of the name? Besides that, there is absolutely no doubt that Ristitaipale is not used in any way today except by a few people who want to implement it on the internet for political reasons. The article on Seinäjoki should not begin "Seinäjoki (also called Östermyra in Swedish)", and Korsnäs should not begin "Korsnäs (also called Ristitaipale and Korsnääsi in Finnish)", because in neither case is the name in brackets in common use. // 83.177.15.217 22:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you know that both of them are in Finland and thats why both name has finnish name. Ristitaipale is pure finnsh name and because that municipality is in Finland, it should be also finnsh name to see. --85.156.136.58 09:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh yes I do know that Korsnäs and Seinäjoki are in Finland, I am from that area, but do YOU know that we also speak Swedish in Finland and do you know that Korsnäs is unilingual and that its name is "Korsnäs" both in Finnish and Swedish? Proof: (see #280). Ristitaipale is a fennoman invention. Likewise there are many municipalities in Finland that don't have a corresponding Swedish name.MoRsΞ 09:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That answer by 85.156.136.58 was very revealing and rather comical, since it does not grasp what I wrote about Seinäjoki and Korsnäs at all, as anyone can see. My point was and is: there are municipalities in Finland without any Swedish name in common use (for example Seinäjoki, or Rovaniemi, or Kolari), and there are also some municipalities in Finland without any Finnish name in common use (for example Korsnäs, or Finström). // 83.177.120.84 11:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Korsnäs have a finnish name Ristitaipale, but you dont accept it, because you are swedish bättre folk (english better people). So because you want to destroy finnish names, I will now correct finnish city articles, where swedish name is too noticeable. --85.156.136.58 12:01, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Ristitaipale is neither an official, nor an unofficial, nor a commonly used, but merely a once suggested Finnish name for the municipality. You won't accept it. That the reasons for this aren't fact-based at all is obvious to anyone reading your comments here. // 83.177.120.84 12:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

About the edit war
WP:LAME, anyone? -- さくら 木 15:33, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be so lame if you knew the background, this is another fennomaniac attempt of stealing the history, claiming the area was "theirs", rewriting the history. MoRsE 16:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ristitaipale has been areas formal finnish name, want it or not. http://www.genealogia.fi/seurakunnat/srk?CMD=SRK&ID=228&TYPE=HTML&LANG=EN --91.154.124.65 19:30, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * In the article Seinäjoki the old Swedish name "Östermyra" is mentioned later in the text, and there is absolutely no reason to treat "Ristitaipale" in a more generous way than that. Please note that the Finnish encyclopedia from 1928 only mentions "Korsnääsi" as Finnish name, and this name isn't used anymore neither. // 83.183.124.123 20:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont think so. http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=114&conference=1500000000000108&posting=22000000026736013 --91.154.124.65 21:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know, it might be the case, but I'd like to see some other and more reliable sources. My point is that extremely peripheral names like "Ristitaipale" shouldn't be given a place in the article they don't deserve. But I know that there is an Anti-Swedish language war going on, where the insertion of this name everywhere on the Internet seems to be extremely important. What a pity that the Finns don't and never did use it. // 83.183.124.123 22:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Its yours opinion, not mine. I think you are going crazy when you say sometihing about language war...give me a laugh...--91.154.124.65 08:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, your edits speak for themselves. By the way, "Östermyra" has been used as a Swedish name for Seinäjoki in the early 20th century (Mikael Reuter later corrected himself on this point), much out of similar language political reasons and about the same time as "Korsnääsi" and "Ristitaipale" were created as Finnish equivalents for Korsnäs. All three names were products of the Swedish-Finnish language battle in Finland some 100 years ago and all three of them are today very or extremely peripherical. They are already mentioned in the respective articles but none of them deserve to be described as alternative names in the first sentence. That would indeed be to continue a language war of the early 20th century. // 81.224.42.247 18:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Its not true. Östermyra is swedish name from Törnävä gard near Seinäjoki not Seinäjoki. Ristitaipale is quite same as Korsnäs in finnish exept that näs is niemi in finnish but taipale means wayland in finnish poetry language. I hope that you would stop spreding swedish propaganda, please. --83.102.5.106 21:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The unofficial Finnish names are mentioned lower in the article. They are NOT...I repeat NOT used and have not been used except briefly for a short period in the early 1920s (This is only valid for Korsnääsi, as far as Ristitaipale goes, I want to se another valid source but the web page, that one is worth nothing at all). --MoRsE 23:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Dont lie...you wanna delete those name because you are swede and you want to save article about finnish names. --83.102.5.106 07:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you blind or can't you read? See here. The names are mentioned there - this was a compromise result of the last time the edit war was hot. And these names are NEVER used by Finnish speaking persons...only by Fennomaniacs. --MoRsE 07:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Are you blind: And I say then you are a Svekomaniacs when you delete facts., So if you will delete finnish name so I will delete swedish name. So if you save finnish name I will save swedish, OK? You choice...? --83.102.5.106 07:27, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Ristitaipale

 * www.pcuf.fi/~rdahl/kirkko/seurakunta.html
 * http://www.genealogia.fi/historia/mini.php?srk=228
 * http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:XOKPQkT0gAYJ:www.laaninhallitus.fi/lh/biblio.nsf/432AA5EDE0FDDB60C2256D280037B2DB/%24file/Kansakoulujen%2520tarkastus%25201950.pdf+ristitaipale&hl=fi&ct=clnk&cd=24&gl=fi

Korsnääsi

 * http://www.ssa.stockholm.se/Forskarsalen/Aspdb/Rotemansarkivet/orter.asp (select name Korsnääsi)
 * http://runeberg.org/pieni/2/0396.html

Stop the vandalism!
I am a Finnish-speaker from a unilingually Finnish-speaking area and I know pretty well that a very, very clear majority of the Finnish-speaking population of Finland does not even know that names like Ristitaipale or Korsnääsi exist. It is just so pretty damn clear that everybody uses the name Korsnäs in Finnish language text.

There is absolutely no point to mention those names in the very beginning of this article. You do not mention the Swedish name Östermyra in the beginning of the Seinäjoki article. it is pretty much the same case as this: just like Ristitaipale/Korsnääsi the name Östermyra is very seldomly used.

I am so sick and tired of these Fennomans who ruin articles not only in the Finnish Wikipedia, but pretty much in every version of Wikipedia. Can't you make a favour to your homeland and stop that? If you are so damn nationalistic could you please stop ruining the image of your country. --213.186.243.161 22:35, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I know who you are...Silenzio --130.233.243.229 21:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay It is seriously time to semi-protect the page now to get rid of these anonymous users. --MoRsE 05:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Enough already
This is just silly. Here's my compromise solution:

We replace the section on "Finnish name" and the parenthesis, both containing the same information, with the following in the top paragraph:

''The historical Finnish names Ristitaipale and Korsnääsi are occasionally mentioned, but are not official and not in common usage. The Swedish name is typically also used in Finnish.''

That way, the relevant information is retained, and no one is fooled into thinking they're somehow official names. It is also in sync with the current revisions on the French entry and the the German entry.

Is this an acceptable solution to all parties? -- NordicStorm (t/c) 21:21, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I dont understand why present information isnt suitable, there is severals articles where is only mention like article Rääkkylä (swedish Bräkylä) which arent suitable if we now changing only in this article in long form. It isnt necessary. I suppose that (old finnish name or unofficially Finnish) is as suitable as for this purposes. Do you then want to change all purefinnish articles about villages and municipalities to same long form, do you? --Jommala 07:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Because my suggestion adds context and resolves the redundancy, while not deleting any content.
 * Besides, your solution is still incompatible with the Rääkkylä article; for all I know, it's actually called "Bräkylä" in Swedish. But I do know Korsnäs is "Korsnäs" in Finnish. And (Finnish: Korsnäs) is slightly redundant, wouldn't you agree?-- NordicStorm (t/c) 10:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Rääkkylä is swedish also Rääkkylä not Bräkylä (what means "kylä" in Finnish?) same like Korsnäs is in Finnish Korsnääsi or Ristitaipale. --Jommala 12:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know what Rääkkylä/Bräkylä has to do with this discussion, but in contrary to the Korsnäs/Ristitaipale thing it is well documented (see e.g. this link). And the municipality says themselves that "Väitetään, että Rääkkylä -nimi olisi aikojen kuluessa muotoutunut ruotsalaisesta sanasta "brödby", joka tarkoittaa leipäkylää, kun leipä on ennen saatu pääasiassa kaskimaista. Täällä on ollut vaarojen rinteillä hyviä kaskiahoja.[...]Toisen lähteen mukaan aihe olisi saatu kaskenpolton lisäksi ns. rääkkyraudasta." --MoRsE 14:12, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Same references: and  and  and  --Jommala 15:36, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I am OK with NordicStorm's suggestion. --MoRsE 07:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no possible to mix officially to unofficially, because if municipality has finnish name so it is bolded like in article Nauvo. --Jommala 07:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And moving it out of the first sentence makes the distinction clearer, while adding the context mentioned above.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 10:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

See also Naming convention poll on WikiProject Finland.-- NordicStorm (t/c) 16:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)