Talk:Kriegslokomotive

BR 52 typical? Holocaust locomotive as described in picture
See my comment in "Holocaust Train", the BR 52 was NOT a typical holocaust locomotive, because there was NO TYPICAL one! 151.136.144.155 (talk) 07:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Replied there. Reference (to the contrary) added to that article.  Poeticbent  talk 10:54, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I've added a note to the lead about the use of Kriegsloks as Holocaust trains. I did not use the word "typical", and I hope it is clear that other types were used. Presumably the Reichsbahn used whatever was available, and witnesses often talk of long, slow journeys suggesting that the best and newest locos like the BR 52 were not necessarily often used. Still, the Kriegsloks certainly were used as Holocaust trains and that is something that is an inseparable part of their history.Roches (talk) 20:48, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

KDL 2
was not DRB Class 53 as this was not over the planning stage, but BMB-Baureihe 534.0 (Kriegsdampflokomotive 2 [KDL 2])[1] (see German Wikipedia) the first two digits are the same, but the layout is different! 151.136.144.155 (talk) 07:34, 18 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Done. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:41, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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WW2 history in the lead; the abbreviation WR
I added a note about the use of forced labour to the lead, because it is an important subject in the article. Most of the references pertain to the use of forced labour, rather than to the locomotives themselves. The engines' role pulling Holocaust trains was also added. While the latter may be obvious I feel it is an important part of the history of these machines.

Additionally, the abbreviation "WR" for Wehrmachtslokomotive für Regelspur (Wehrmacht Standard Gauge Locomotive) was added. This is found at the article Diesellokomotiven der Wehrmacht in the German Wikipedia. Presumably any narrow-gauge classes would be referred to as WS, the S standing for Schmalspur or narrow gauge. Roches (talk) 20:43, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * A question: we have seen that HF classes was used for Army field railways and WR for Wehrmacht locomotives. Does this mean that only HF, WR, etc. were used by the Wehrmacht, while the rest of the locos were used for civilian service? Of course "civilian service" does not exclude forced labour and genocide but it would be interesting to know what proportion of Kriegsloks were expressly for military use and which were meant to make up a shortage of locomotives during the war. Roches (talk) 20:51, 24 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi Roches, my understanding is that Kriegsloks were just wartime variants of normal DRB locomotives, designed for low-cost, mass production. I'm sure the Wehrmacht would have used them (and other existing DRB locos) for the transportation of troops and materiel around Europe. By contrast, according to the article you mentioned, the WR locos were designed specifically for diesel shunting services on military bases, to avoid the tell-tale smoke of steam engines. The railways at most of these bases were connected to the main railway network and the WR locos would hand over the trains, presumably on a designated siding at the junction. The HF locos were designed for narrow gauge lines built by engineers in the field to reach places that were not served by the existing rail network. I can't find any reference to "WS" locos, which doesn't mean they didn't exist of course. --Bermicourt (talk) 16:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The German article on diesel locomotives happens to be where I found the definition of "WR." It does seem that all the extant classes of WR locomotives were diesels, which isn't mentioned in the English article. Similarly it is not very clear in this article that HF means narrow-gauge field railway locomotives. I've added those details to some extent. I added a link to field railway even though "Heeresfeldbahnlokomotive" links to Feldbahn. The first article describes field railways in general, and the second describes German field railways. Roches (talk) 15:19, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

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