Talk:Krisztina Morvai

Recent controversy over an Internet posting

 * http://www.politics.hu/20090605/outrage-over-obscene-antisemitic-internet-post-by-morvai
 * Check also this: http://hvg.hu/english/20060807petomorvaiun.aspx?s=24h
 * --RCS (talk) 15:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the anti-semitic prosecutions. See BLP! Best wishes, Carpiggio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carpiggio (talk • contribs) 09:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have restored it. You are nothing but a vandal with a pro-Jobbik agenda. --RCS (talk) 09:24, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear. I don't know who any of you are and I am stunned, not to say shocked, to discover that Krisztina is up to her ears in this sort of controversy. I knew her -through my work- on and off from about 1983 till 1993. Her womens rights work is outstanding. It's a terrible pity that -if I understand it correctly- she seems to feel politically got-at for defending some women who are unable to defend themselves. She's fearless in whatever she does. She won't be squashed. I have no idea if she wrote that text or if somebody else did. I have deleted the actual obscene anti-semitic text as I think it is deeply unsuitable for Wikipedia. I have tried to write the history of this matter -as I have learned it today- as objectively as I can and if and when I get to talk to her again, I shall find out what's behind all this. Gerardmulholland 14:11 08 June 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerardmulholland (talk • contribs) 12:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. Not only you do'nt know how to sign properly (type four ~!!!) but you seem to have a very serious conflict of interest here. Dear Gerardmulholland, your lack of personal distance to Mrs. Morvai makes you rather unsuitable to comment and edit neutrally. The internet is full of articles attesting of Morvai's nasty obsession with Jews. You should read this one, for instance: http://jungle-world.com/artikel/2009/13/33589.html. --RCS (talk) 12:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And obviously you have difficulties in making the difference between events of 2006 and events of 2009, because you conflate her attacks on Andrea Peto (2006) with her rage against the Israeli military operation in Gaza (2009). --RCS (talk) 12:30, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I have implemented a compromise; the quote is not placed in the article text, but in the footnote, in a smaller font. I understand the concerns about having one specific quote, no matter how disgusting and egregious it may be, in the text, but the quote is disturbing enough that it should be accessible for the reader to be able to make their own judgments about Dr. Morvai's political leanings. -- Avi (talk) 14:31, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Avi, Good idea.

Dear RCS -the evident depth of your feeling about antisemitism is something I share and I hope that with you that extends to all forms and manifestations of racism as it does with me. However the depth of your feeling shows in your comments here and in your edits so much that it could equally be said of you that it is as to render you also "to have a very serious conflict of interest" that "makes you rather unsuitable to comment and edit neutrally". But, be that as it may. Several points.

She isn't Mrs Morvai. Mr Morvai was her father. She has always used her maiden name with her academic title. She's Dr Morvai. Second, whilst I commend your English, I don't mock it, even though it isn't perfect. For example, it's 'don't', not 'do'nt'. So please don't mock my unfamiliarity with Wikipedia's endlessly changing software. It's a miracle that I've even mastered enough to make any contributions or corrections at all. Third, it was not I who "conflate(d) her attacks on Andrea Peto (2006) with her rage against the Israeli military operation in Gaza (2009)". I merely took at face value the text that was already there. If it was obscure or badly written so as to conflate the events, that isn't my fault.

I am still looking for a direct antisemitic article or report of an antisemitic speech by her with which you say the internet is "full" and if the best you can do is a German extreme left (and commendably anti-fascist) magazine's reference to some other unnamed report, then I'm not impressed. Sometimes, you know, you can form a view and then that becomes the wish that is father to the thought.

I am not judging. I am searching. I don't know with what terms she discussed the rights of arab women in Israel. I do not know what language was used to criticise her for defending or for having defended such women's rights. But I did know her well enough to be sure that she would have been objective and determined in her defence of such rights. On a personal level I hope that what happened was that she has been made angry by vituperative and unjust action against her for having defended those women. On an objective political level I hope that that is not the case because it would reflect very, very badly upon those responsible for such a thing. In all circumstances I do not approve of the all-too widespread human fault of responding to vicious actions or speech with yet more vicious actions or speech. So no matter how all this started, I'm not impressed by what is reported as having been said or done any more than I am impressed by the manner in which it is reported. I am not looking forward to finding out the truth. But I will find it.

However, Wikipedia deserves honest attempts at objectivity and I note that you have accepted my argument for rephrasing the text and I thank you for that. I assure you that if I discover that my old friend is now a racist (or a homophobe) I will be totally gobsmacked. And I shall tell her so. If I discover that she isn't, I shall be back to defend her! It'll be some time before I get the chance to talk with her, though. She lives half a continent away from me and even though her new job brings her slightly closer, it's not close enough for me to just pop out to see her. I shall try and get her to have lunch with me or to come to dinner next time she's in town. Check back in a year or so! gm 15:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerardmulholland (talk • contribs) Well, I signed that with the four thingies, dear boy, and it didn't give my name properly at all. Weird. Gerardmulholland 16:53 08 June 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerardmulholland (talk • contribs) 15:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Gerard, it is not within our power to remain objective over someone we were closely related at any time. Conflict of interest was fortunately abolished when in the medieval times English people it would be fair and wise to give anyone a fair and proper trial and be judged not by the leaders of townships but by 12 people whom are unrelated to the cause. I guess meanwhile you might have realized, that yes she is homophobic and even true to that core value just as much she was on the opposite side in 2000. The article also severely lacks of the fact she was on the payroll of one of the ministries of the Medgyessy-goverment exactly for judicial work on equality issues for women. Thus today it does not change the fact, that if the woman is bisexual, lesbian, transsexual or gypsy that would not fit in her christian or social ethic represented by the Jobbik which party appointed her for state presidency and is an elected member of that party in the European Parliament.

Hopefully it is not a problem if someone is anti-fascist, because it does not render anyone to left or extreme left respectively at least since 1945 most of the conservative, right wing thinkers are anti-fascists.

Last but least: you should give a verifiable resource for the thesis that the commission spied on its own researchers.Shinichi1977 (talk) 13:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Dr
I quote WP:CREDENTIAL: ''Academic and professional titles (such as "Doctor" or "Professor") should not be used before the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name. Verifiable facts about how the person attained such titles should be included in the article text instead. In cases where the person is widely known by a pseudonym or stage name containing such a title (whether earned or not), it may be included as described above. Post-nominal letters indicating academic degrees (including honorary degrees) should not be included following the subject's name''.Kope (talk) 20:19, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Point taken; moved to text. -- Avi (talk) 21:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Edit war
There seems to be an edit war emerging. I repeatedly removed and Trhonya re-added the following:


 * Morvai is married to György Baló, a Hungarian television reporter of Jewish origin. 

I simply do not understand what Trhonya is doing. First, the fact that Morvai is married is mentioned at two more places, one naming Balo as spouse. Second, I do not know any source where Balo claimes he is jew. Is he religious? Third, the added reference to a short article claiming that they are "happily married" does not seem to square with the fact that both Morvai and Balo claimed that they are separated. Kope (talk) 18:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If this person is/or accused beeing anti-semite, the information that her husband is Jewish is a notable information and should be mentioned per WP:YESPOV. (Of course source must be WP:V and WP:RS) B@xter 9 20:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Really? How about her friends?Kope (talk) 20:22, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see here the veriable sources. Do you? Kope (talk) 04:19, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you mean under "how about her friends"? I did not check the sources in this article, I just answered your question (wiki rules). B@xter 9 08:10, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Dear Baxter9. I humbly ask you to present any reliable source proving that Mr Balo is Jewish. Kope (talk) 16:19, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Dear Kope. Why should I search for a reliable source? (If politics.hu is not a reliable, [I dont know that site]). It was User:Trhonya who readded this source, not me. The article should be checked, and if this source is not reliable, it should be removed with the other non reliable sources (if there are any). B@xter 9 16:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Separated
I think an interview with Krisztina Morvai herself counts as a reliable source, doesn't it? It appeared in Heti Valasz and states that "we live in the same house but lead separate households".193.224.79.8 (talk) 16:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Jobbik
The article's lead says "She was elected on the extreme-far-right political party list." Well isn't this a bit tautological? "Extreme-far-right"? And doesn't the wikipedia article on Jobbik and it's own discussion page consider "Nationalist" to be a much more accurate description of this party? PolSci74 (talk) 22:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:REVDEL request
Please delete all the recent edits made by IPs, per WP:RD2. Thanks. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  23:36, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅. JohnCD (talk) 00:19, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

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