Talk:Krystal Meyers/Archive 1

Source of article content
I have checked the article and all the text beyond the introductory paragraph is a cut a paste job from official site's biography. If no one does anything about it in next week, I will remove the text and add a music artist template reducing this article to stub.--Kevin586 15:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Lack of sources in general
I cannot find anywhere on the Internet that Krystal Meyers considers herself "the real rock chick". A citation is needed for Anticonformity and the Christian camp. I also suggest a "Comparison with Avril Lavigne" or "Comparison with other rock chicks" section. --Superkirbyartist (talk) 23:27, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Made up scandal
why was this taken off the talk page? what supposed WP:BLP violation? it's a referenceable article we're talking about here, not the speculation per se and the asian event with wyclef is notable as well, and picture deletion cause of concern ~ kp
 * Blogs are hardly a reliable source and a circumstantial shot from China is hardly noteworthy.--Kencaesi (talk) 00:05, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Redeleting the content that violates WP:BLP. The only speculation is whether or not the perp that fabricated the rumour will face criminal and civil, or merely civil charges.jonathon (talk) 02:56, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Links
why were external links deleted? there's no reason fansites should not included. ~kp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.26.124.0 (talk) 23:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Imparting Real Information
The editors message below (just added to main page) says "or find sources which back the claims." Everything is backed up so you CANNOT WRITE THIS AND CALL WHAT YOU WRITE TRUTH. MY REAL INFORMATION IS TRUE AND HAS REFERENCES. THEREFORE, WHAT YOU YOURSELF SAY IS A SOLUTION HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE (Eyesonchrist (talk) 04:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).

"This article may contain wording that promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information. Please remove or replace such wording or find sources which back the claims."


 * The fact that the article is referenced is not being contested. (I have not looked at whether each individual reference is appropriate, but I definitely understand that you've attempted to cite sources.) However, the selection of content is questionable. See also my comments below. TheFeds 05:05, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I removed what might be considered Peacock terms. Can you now remove this message? If you see other Peacock terms or reasons this message should still be on the article page, please give me specific examples so I can remedy your concerns, in some manner. (Eyesonchrist (talk) 15:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).

Intricate Detail
The editors message below (just added to main page) says there is too much information and then the one below that says there is not enough: Imparting Real Information. The information given does interest a specific audience: An audience that wants to know the truth. Other audiences need not visit.

With that said, this is a work in progress and that fact should be taken into consideration before posting these messages which detract from the "look" of the page when, especially, the Real Information message was not necessary (Eyesonchrist (talk) 04:41, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).

"This article may contain an excessive amount of intricate detail that may only interest a specific audience. Please relocate any relevant information, and remove excessive trivia, praise, criticism, lists and collections of links. (April 2009)"


 * Actually, reading those two tags together, the implication is that the article contains a lot of detail that promotes the subject in a biased way. (The "without imparting real information" statement is a slightly snide feature of the template's boilerplate text, but the idea is that if it were "real" information, it would be relevant to a general audience and well-referenced.) Also, in order to appeal to a general audience (which ought to be interested in the truth, of course), you should think about what's relevant universally, and what only a die-hard fan would care about.


 * Stylistically, the fact that Krystal was "'like, “Oh, my gosh, what’s wrong?'" could probably have been better expressed without the quotation. Imagine if the article for George W. Bush contained a selection of his memorable quotes instead of documented external evidence of his life—would you think that professional? Find sources that describe her, rather than using her own words. That way, the article will better reflect what society knows of her, rather than what she thinks of herself.


 * Finally, it's pretty hard to justify filling a Wikipedia with blatant proselytization. The fact that each of these quotes comes with a religious theme is strong evidence that you put them there for the purpose of promoting your religious beliefs. This is not appropriate for an encyclopedia! Wikipedia requires a neutral tone. TheFeds 05:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

This is a work in progress. I have no problem with improving this page over time. That said, Christians are biased and if we pretend we are not we do a disservice to Christ. So, over time I will make the page seem more neutral without being neutral (Eyesonchrist (talk) 05:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).


 * It's not a problem to state that Meyers is devoutly Christian (and to reference that with reliable sources). The issue is simply that the article makes it seem as if her relevance in the world is overshadowed by the many, many examples of her personal faith.


 * Your position that bias is inherent is reasonable, and I wouldn't have you pretend to be un-Christian. Consider, though: you'd probably be mildly annoyed if you went looking for an article about Sandy Koufax, and instead you found it full of quotes about being Jewish, rather than about baseball.


 * Consider that once a random reader reads that she's Christian, it probably isn't necessary to read reaffirmations of that fact in every paragraph. The article would be greatly improved by choosing only the most important (and verifiable) facts about her life, and including those. The other quotations are better suited to a fan site dedicated to Meyers, rather than an encyclopedia article. TheFeds 05:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

I understand. You make a good point. It needs to fit the format of an Encyclopedia and not overstate one area. Okay, I see that. And, I agree with the "personally invested tone" statement. But I disagree with the "imparting real information" statement. I have imparted real information and just because it will get better over time does not mean it's so bad as to have that message there until then. I think the other two have some merit and can stay for now but the first one is just a slam and without merit and I believe it should be removed. So, can you remove that? (Eyesonchrist (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).

Lastly, since her faith is as she says the most important thing in her life I think I could put that under personal life as a subheading and call that part of the page, "Her faith as Interviewed" which would explain what that section is about so it does not seem to weigh down the other. Make it a special part of "Personal life", and still condense it maybe by half (and add different facts to personal life) I think that might work. What do you think? (Eyesonchrist (talk) 13:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).

I added "Her Faith as Interviewed" and "Her Likes" as separate sections. Now it does not seem weighed down to me (and I condensed it a bit too), especially after I grow the first part of "Personal Life."

I also think the "informal style" comment is now is more of a mute point too since I state it's an interview. (Eyesonchrist (talk) 14:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)).


 * Can I just say, at the moment this page does not sound encyclopaedic. It sounds like a fansite, and it's very wearing to read through all of Meyers' favourite food (as an example) to find something you'd expect to find on an encyclopaedia. Whoever put so much detail into the page ought to be starting a fansite, not clogging up an encyclopaedia. Lowri (talk) 14:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I second that motion. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 21:32, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

by anjeanette ruybalid
krystal meyers rocks my socks big time -anjeanette ruybalid —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.72.196 (talk) 03:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Photo
I think the current picture should be replaced by this one:. While this second one is a few years old, it has the advantage of being a photo of Meyers singing, which is what she is best known for. The current picture seems to be a fan pic, and a glamour shot is not as appropriate for an infobox. StAnselm (talk) 07:25, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Krystal Meyers. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090907044419/http://www.visionmagazine.co.za:80/archive.html to http://www.visionmagazine.co.za/archive.html

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Japan
I have removed the quote about Japan - there's nothing else about Japan in the article, about the success of her music there. If Meyers was a missionary in Japan, the quote would be relevant in regards to her motivation, but there's nothing else in the article that relates to the quote. StAnselm (talk) 22:08, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, singing in Japan does not equate being a missionary. I have a feeling though, that it was written by someone close to her, who knew of her private missionary work in Japan. But we just can't source it 182.255.99.214 (talk) 09:06, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Hiatus
Most artists release new projects (even if they're just live albums or "greatest hits" compilations) every 1-3 years. Krystal Meyers has released nothing since Make Some Noise in 2008. Her Twitter account and Facebook page don't exist anymore, and her Myspace displays no upcoming shows. If this isn't an hiatus, what is it? --Djc wi (talk) 06:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe she's permanently retired. Maybe she's still really active singing in her local church. Maybe she has writer's block. We just don't know. StAnselm (talk) 21:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * When do you think that an hiatus can be officially declared? How long after a last release must it be?  And even disregarding the releases, what about the lack of online activity and shows?  What about the fact that she's not signed to Essential Records anymore?  You would think that an active artist would give us something.  Even Flyleaf, who made their fans wait 4 years for a new original release, gave something.  --Djc wi (talk) 04:51, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It's not a hiatus until a reliable source has declared it to be such. The thing is, it isn't a hiatus until she comes back - which she might never do. StAnselm (talk) 05:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What about dc Talk then? They never came back, but it was still an hiatus.  --Djc wi (talk) 06:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess as we look at it now, in retrospect, it wasn't a hiatus. And I agree, we shouldn't say that someone is taking a hiatus, unless they've expressly said that 182.255.99.214 (talk) 09:06, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Date of birth
This needs to be established by a published secondary source. Not a poor copy of a primary source that we cannot definitely link to the subject of the article. Rmhermen (talk) 17:35, 24 July 2015 (UTC)


 * No, per WP:BLPPRIVACY, this needs to be removed unless it can be proven that Krystal Meyers has made her birth date widely available. I will now remove it. I think it would be OK to indicate the approximate year of birth, if a suitable source can be found. Jc3s5h (talk) 22:11, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I removed it after it was added again. The primary source is not my issue, it's that it could be another subject by the same name that's a concern. The fact that the subject requested its removal is also of importance here. Walter Görlitz (talk) 11:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Just out of interest, how do you know the subject requested that it be removed? Also, why would a celebrity ask for their birth date to be removed. And I agree with the person below, its listed on Jesus Freak Hideout (http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/KrystalMeyers.asp) 182.255.99.214 (talk) 02:36, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I could be mistaken. I have checked this talk page, including the archives, my talk page and that of the edit warring editor who added and deleted a lot of content. I can't seem to find it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:39, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Why isn't Krystal Meyers' birth date included?
I'm concerned that when you Google for Krystal Meyers, on almost every page, it is not disputed that her birth date is July 31, 1988, and there is no proof any one legitimately has disputed this. Look at her Last FM page. It's also every where else. What exactly is the issue, and who raised concerns about including her birth date on her Wikipedia page? 182.255.99.214 (talk) 04:02, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Actually, I think it may be because she has a crazy stalker apparently:
 * ''There is a crazy fan who is madly in love with Krystal & you can easily see him everywhere defending any comments against Krystal Meyers.
 * However, this love is going too crazy & difficult for anyone to handle. according to other fan page "she stopped tweeting because she had a stalker who she had to take care of legally & lay low for a while" ..I truly hope he is not the reason that Krystal is inactive for such a long time.
 * Let's pray for Krystal's safety & can have new music for us soon. Let's also pray for Rob...hope God can let him know his love for Krystal isn't healthy... he already got a restraining order but that doesn't stop him...Let's pray for that God will direct him to the right path...and not to hate the people who try to protect Krystal.''
 * Does anyone know if this is a legitimate reason to not include a birth date on Wikipedia? 182.255.99.214 (talk) 04:06, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Birthdate
I went back into the archives on Wikipedia and Jesus Freak Hideout, per policies, and found out Jesus Freak Hideout published her birthdate, a full month, before editor Goldendroplets, published it on this encyclopedia. If someone wants to look over the information, NICOLE MEYERS SESAC has her full name as Krystal Nicole Meyers, and California Birth Index has all the information verified. Her mother is Melinda Lou Meyers (nee, Renfrow), notice same birthdate, her father is Richard Dale "Rick" Meyers, and her family members she is "related to". In retrospect, Jesus Freak Hideout was first with the information, from a reliable source.The Cross Bearer (talk) 13:18, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * It has been discussed before that http://www.californiabirthindex.org is not an appropriate source. Rmhermen (talk) 16:06, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
 * When I originally read this, I thought this was a joke. How can the birth date of a public figure be disputed? Does anybody know what is going on? 182.255.99.214 (talk) 09:06, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Unless someone can say why Krystal's birthday shouldn't be included, it should be included here from this source (http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/KrystalMeyers.asp) 182.255.99.214 (talk) 02:36, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Reasons for quitting in 2009
Should we include some of the secondary sources surrounding Krystal's abrupt quitting the Christian music scene in 2009? Some of them are awfully strange, like this Wordpress website that ranks very highly when you Google for Krystal Meyers: https://krystalmeyers.wordpress.com/ It includes names, and insight into Krystal that no one else would, unless they were very close. There is talking about Rick Meyers, e-Sword, Grace Chapel, Steve Berger, even murder. Apparently Krystal Meyers is now 27, never married. Even if you look further down on this page, there are questions about the AGE of Krystal Meyers. For a public figure, this seems awfully surprising 182.255.99.214 (talk) 09:01, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Only reliable sources. Wordpress is not a reliable source. StAnselm (talk) 02:53, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not just on Wordpress. It's on news web sites if you Google for Krystal Meyers. Wikipedia is not a public relations tool, it's a medium for the truth as reported 182.255.99.214 (talk) 03:59, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That's not quite true. Wikipedia:5P lists the five pillars. Truth is only listed there as saying we do not attempt do describe "the truth". Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:32, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to agree that this controversy should probably be noted, just because we are citing wordpress doesn't mean we are approving what they say, especially since there is opposing blogs. It is factual that somebody is making these claims, the existence of the wordpress blogs give proof that.  And it isn't something trivial, leaving this information out might not be that far from inaccuracy.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.183.206.58 (talk) 08:31, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A couple of things:
 * Just because someone, somewhere on the internet posted ramblings about Miss Meyers does not mean that those unsourced rumors should be included in this article.
 * Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information.
 * WP:BLP is policy. Standards for information included in biographies of living persons editorial consensus is very high.
 * "Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives..."
 * WP:BLP further states that biographies of living persons must strictly adhere to Neutral point of view, Verifiability, and No original research. Verifiability means that any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source and to never use self-published sources such as blogs.
 * So the answer is still no. Shearonink (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * UPDATE well it looks like the accusations come from a single Quakadoodle online. Sorry to make you so angry, but you should have just told me that.  At anyrate, much of this person's obsessive (can't think of the word I'm looking for) actually has to do with this Wikipedia article specifically Kyrstal's age, and how it keeps being removed.  And as much rambling as there is on that page, one thing (perhaps the only thing) he has evidence to the point of little doubt, is her birthdate of 1988.  I gave one of his sources as a citation.  However, if this isn't good enough I think it should be whoever's removing it (in assuming it is one or two people who have repeatedly removed the date as R.N. believes) duty to using his sources or another find something that is up to standards, has I have used up enough of my time doing it (wikipedia is the last code editor I want to work with) and outside of R.N. you are probably the only one who gives a dam.  Because otherwise you're just provoking the guy.  I wanted to say some things to Mr. N, for him to get help, but this editor is an eyesore, and is making me irritable, and I can see how someone might have gone mad looking at it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.183.206.58 (talk) 07:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither of the "sources" you provided agree with the "birth date" you provided. https://web.archive.org/web/20081031135511/http://www.titletrakk.com/music-interviews/krystal-meyers-interview.htm doesn't discuss a birth date at all. The word, "birth", does not appear in the article, and no dates are mentioned at all. Since http://www.titletrakk.com/music-interviews/krystal-meyers-interview.htm is still live, I'm not sure why you obfuscated the link by going through the archive. http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/KrystalMeyers.asp lists July 31, 1988, not the date you added. So unless you can supply a reliable source (linked above) no birth date needs to be added at all. And don't forget to sign your talk page posts. 208.81.212.224 (talk) 20:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Interesting the date became September 10? Well once I saw that it said 1988 at the end I thought everything had been entered correctly.  Well I'm not going to spend another moment looking at this editor, so just change it.  And like I said before you're only one who actual gives a dam about the quality of the source, so if it isn't good enough find one yourself on quackadoodle's page or just let it go. --192.183.206.58 (talk) 04:44, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * What's really interesting is that you used a source that has no dates in it all to try to support the birth date. Please explain how that source was used.
 * Also, I'm not sure how 1988-08-31 "became" 1988-09-10. Two digits are different. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:04, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Krystal Meyers church
The Grace Chapel in Knoxville, TN is listed as Krystal Hawkins' current church. --LABcrabs (talk) 17:27, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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