Talk:Ku Klux Klan regalia and insignia

Nazareno and Capirote
Are many people in the non-spanish speaking western world aware that costumes which are superficially similar to KKK costumes are used by Christians? Unfortunately, both the Nazareno and Capirote  articles are in the Spanish version of wikipedia .--80.47.210.255 16:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletions a bit too much?
I think the deletions are a bit extreme... I did some checking about various klux sites (not something I like to do in public), and there was some debate in some places about whether the cross was originally an X or a +. I think the various legends of origins are worth at least some discussion. The Crusader thing is plausible, especially if they were influenced by Scott. --MacRusgail 14:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * How about adding some references? My actions may come across as a bit harsh, but I've seen people add stuff to the main Ku Klux Klan article over and over that's nothing but urban folklore and self-mythologizing on the part of the Klan.--Bcrowell 14:32, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, the self-mythologising is a big feature, but perhaps it can be noted as such, e.g. "It is commonly stated that ... although there is no hard evidence for this". I think that the origins of the group are obviously shady, which makes things harder. Some of what the Straight Dope article says about the fiery cross (crann tara) is correct, I think, but other parts aren't so verifiable notably this statement -


 * "The fiery cross of Scottish legend wasn't the upright Roman cross commonly used by the Klan. Rather it was the X-shaped cross of St. Andrew. St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland, and an X-shaped cross probably also was a lot easier to make a signal bonfire out of. But nobody ever said the Klan's big attraction was its meticulous sense of detail."


 * I am a Scot (and resident in Scotland), with a great interest in our history, and don't know of any particular evidence to suggest that the crann tara was X shaped. This is conflating our flag with the fiery cross. However, with the cross on the costume, I have seen some debate as to whether it is an X or a +. This is made harder to identify by the fact that it's often seen at an angle in old pictures. (To be honest, most Scots are thoroughly embarassed by their "link" with the Klan, especially when they call themselves a "clan".). The X may suggest a link with our flag, or the US South's one. --MacRusgail 14:39, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I read that the MIOAK/Blood Drop Cross are four K's (for Knights of the Ku Klux Klan), with their back against each other, that form the cross. The blood drop was originally a Yin & Yang symbol.

I only found this source for that:

VFD
On 16 July 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was move to Ku Klux Klan regalia and insignia. See Votes for deletion/KKK costume for a record of the discussion. – ABCD✉ 00:28, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Erm, as far as I can see, two people voted for the move. Am I missing something? -unsigned
 * I was taken aback when I read that the person who nominated the VFD realized the result would be keep, simply stated that would delete half the articler and revert it to a stub (which they then tried to do...see below). Clearly not the way a VFD should function.  And, yes, the result of that vote appeared to me to be a simple keep and not a move. -Husnock 16:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Oct 12 Revert
I visited this article and was shocked to see the massive deletions which had been accomplished by a single user. I read through teh deletions and saw many which were private opinions and one was even labeled as "delte statement I dont think is true". I was also very confused why the user stated that the popular culture section was "off topic" since it deals with how the KKK costume has been portrayed in television and cinema. In any event, no offense to the user, but this all strikes of article ownership. I have reverted t the last full version that I could find and recommnd that future mega-deletions get discussed first. -Husnock 22:48, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Simple Spanish Proof (directly from Google)
http://images.google.com/images?q=nazarenos

http://images.google.com/images?as_oq=capirotes+capirote

Although the pictures in the links above may not reflect this, white is a very common color. Even after KKK copied this, there has never been any order-of-magnitude-comparison in quantity of usage of this type of costume between Spain (and former colonies) and KKK. KKK usage is negligible on the map and is overrated due to USA media distortion/domination.

Alternative Ku Klux Klan costume?
I've been doing some research lately on the 19th century children's writer Martha Finley's series of 'Elsie Dinsmore' books. The fifth book in the series, 'Elsie's Motherhood', deals fairly extensively with KKK activities. It's set in 1867-68, was published in 1876 and, according to the preface, draws on published reports of the Congressional Committee of Investigation.

The costume description, however, doesn't match with any that I've seen elsewhere.

"Seemingly of gigantic stature, it wore a long, white garment, that, enveloping it from head to foot, trailed upon the ground, rattling as it moved, and glistening in the moonlight; the head was adorned with three immense horns, white, striped with red, a nose of proportional size, red eyes and eyebrows, and a wide, grinning, red mouth, filled with horrible tusks, out of which lolled a long red tongue." (Martha Finley, Elsie's Motherhood, London: George Routledge & Sons [1876], p. 90-91)

Elsewhere similar descriptions are given. There is reference to the horns being made of "odd looking rolls of cotton cloth", stuffed with cotton wool and horn shaped, tapering nearly to a point (pp. 84-85); and another which states that "Under that long red tongue, which is made of flannel, and moved by the wearer's real tongue, there is a leather bag, inside of the disguise and into it they pour the water; not down their throats." (pp. 154-155)

Is this a regional variant on the costume? Has anyone any knowledge or information about this?

BettyH

The MIOAK/Blood Drop Cross
I read that the MIOAK/Blood Drop Cross are four K's (for Knights of the Ku Klux Klan), with their back against each other, that form the cross. The blood drop was originally a Yin & Yang symbol. I only found this source for that:

Another origin involving the KKK costume
I had remembered another origin behind the klan's costume, but it involves a long story: Back in 1989, I went to see the Wendell B. Harris Jr. movie Chameleon Street at the Huntington Arts Cinema. Prior to the showing of the film a man came on to give a lecture about racism's role in our society, and one aspect he mentioned were that police departments in the South used to have Slave patrols before the civil war. Among the tactics used by the slave patrols were to dress up as ghosts in order to intimidate African-Americans out of trying to seek freedom. Basically it was another effort to play on their superstition and alleged gullibility, just as the Knight Riders and other KKK members used to do. DanTD 03:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Your recent edits have been reverted as they do not appear to be constructive
"The origins of the use of the costume are unclear, but it does seem certain that it was originally designed by weak white males that were repeatedly beat up by bullies and unable to function as a normal human beings. The dress allows easy access for the placement of foreign objects such as golf balls and hot wheels up their anuses."

Such supposed "constructive" information is why nobody takes wikipedia seriously. Now hopefully, as this page is edited to bring it up to the standards of a high school book report, the editors who reverted my edits will go and place "foreign objects such as golf balls and hot wheels up their anuses." Good day.

4.157.104.21 (talk) 10:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * sorry, I thought you were adding those stuff, My bad..its advisable that when you remove a lot of stuff from an article, its good and add a descent edit summary with it so that other editors will know what you are adding or removing since wikipedia gets hit by vandalism every 1/10th of a second and its hard to differentiate between the vandalism or improvements...-- Cometstyles 10:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protected
I think this page should have some kind of semi-protection. I have no love for the KKK and am diametrically opposed to them, however this page is mainly for information, and can't be vandalised on a regular basis. --MacRusgail (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The article on the Ku Klux Klan itself is already protected. I could see some editing that could be done there, specifically of one link. As for this one, it could probably use some images of KKK logos for various rankings within the klan. DanTD (talk) 17:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The vandalism is still going on, so why can't this page be semi-protected? --MacRusgail (talk) 15:17, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

And I'll say it again! --MacRusgail (talk) 16:24, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Seriously what does have to happen to get a page semi-protected? Does libellous material have to be put up repeatedly? -MacRusgail (talk) 16:12, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Finding Sources
This article along with some others dealing with the klan are horribly unreferenced. And I'm having trouble finding anything reliable online. Mostly things like this and un-sourced Yahoo Answers postings. Can someone read a book on the klan or something and get some sources? ./zro (⠠⠵) 23:29, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Pop Culture
Since South Park and others were mentioned, how about adding Harry Potter IV? The Death Eater costumes were very Klan-like in that movie. (I'm glad they fixed the outfits for the subsequent movies. YIKES!) 67.142.130.30 (talk) 06:23, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

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No mention of Spanish costumes in article
The KKK regalia is almost exactly like the costumes worn in Spanish Catholic religious processions. Why is this not even mentioned in the article? 173.89.236.187 (talk) 15:35, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * A line has been added but the origin of the costume and significance (if any) of the resemblance need more research. Ewulp (talk) 23:21, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

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Redirect
The article is unsourced WP:OR, with no sources nor citations since 2008. I redirected the page to the main article. If suitable sources exist, they could be first added to the main article. --K.e.coffman (talk) 18:03, 8 October 2018 (UTC)