Talk:Kubrat/Archive 1

Untitled
130.49.222.251 asked if Bezmer, Ultzindur, Atilkese and Emnetzur were sons of Kubrat. Yes they were. 130.49.222.251 also asked if Balkor was another name for Ultzindur. Again it would seem so. Howeverthe page would benefit from some source references.

They were his generals, not real sons. Political sons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.118.193.147 (talk) 07:50, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Contribution 18:24, 10 Oct 2004 212.50.24.194 reverted
Thank you for the input. Please write the article yourself, not by "cut and paste" from internet, it is violation of copyrights. I have to revert the whole input, since I have no time and desire to separate copied phrases from original ones. Mikkalai 16:01, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comment moved from the main space
NB variations of his name include Kurt, Kovrat, Kobrat, Kuvrat, Kubert, Korbat, Qobrat, Kuvarog, Krovat Kurbat and even Bashtu.According to the arabian chronist at Tabary (838/9 - 922/3) the Arabians caled him - Shahriar during the war in Kavkaz mauntain in 648 between Kubrat and Abdurrahman.


 * Although seemingly diverse all of these names (except Shahriar which means Great King) are etymologically linked to U-V-[rz]-[tj]-(O). 86.138.184.218 07:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

People, stick to facts!
There aren't sufficent facts on the subject and so many of the details can be discussed but still, don't try to fancy and invent a history that never existed! National romanticism has long since gone and now is the time to make history a science that relies on facts. And if you don't speak English, write your version and find somebody to translate it for you! 85.11.148.60 13:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Amen!86.138.184.218 07:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

This paragraph does not scan - could the author please fix
Unlike the Bulgars, who were helped by an allegorical beautiful stag, apparently a people whom the early Magyars felt very closely associated with sought blood but failed because were not familiar with the waters of the area, even so, female hostage taking by these people occurred in the process and the events contributed to the establishment of Danube Bulgaria. Tashkop 02:04, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Moved unsourced from article
He had a Bulgar mother and an Avar father.

Upon return Kubrat was endorsed by his uncle, the Avar khagan, as baltavar , and took power over his tribe, the Unogundur Bulgars, from Organa who had acted as regent until then.

Seems like part of a series of weird OR-ish Avar-related edits by the same anon user. "Baltavar" (or rather, bltwr, as far as I remember) is attested only for Volga Bulgaria, once, and God knows what it means. --91.148.159.4 13:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

3 suggestions about article intro
1. Kubrat didn't conquered Avars, this is too much. He simply overthrew their overlordship.

2. Kubrat also overthrew Turkic overlordship - this MUST be stated. Turks should accept the reality. Speculation about 10 tribes should be moved down the article - such hypothesis exist but it is not proven. What is known is that Utigurs and Onogurs disappear from chronicles and Unogundurs replace them. Utigurs and Onogurs were of Hunnic origin. Why they spoke language similar to proto-Turkic is a different matter. 93.152.143.113 (talk) 18:24, 17 July 2015 (UTC) http://sitemaker.umich.edu/mladjov/files/bulgarian_rulers.pdf 93.152.143.113 (talk) 18:38, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

3. Also Kubrat was ruler of Onogundurs = Utigurs who were of Hunnic origin. WHY their language was similar to Turkic and how much similar is a different matter. Utigurs were one of the tribes of the Yuezhi. ( Yu. A. Zuev, Edwin G. Pulleyblank, Атанас Стаматов, Ж. Войников, Петър Голийски, Георги Владимиров, Цветелин Степанов, Тодор Чобанов )93.152.143.113 (talk) 04:58, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of Alcek as a son of Kubrat
The claim Alcek was not a son of Kubrat is a fringe view. If there are reliable sources supporting it, please provide them here for discussion. Do not delete sourced content only because you dislike it. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 10:02, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Please check the article Alcek, where I have made some clarifications and have added verifiable and reliable sources. There were probably two historical figures with the same name Altsek. Both were Bulgars and settled in Italy, but in different periodes. Jingiby (talk) 10:32, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Actually Alzeco settled in Italy but Alciocus settled north of Bavaria.Bulgarios (talk) 18:48, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Invitation to Collaborate
Hi User:Jingiby, it looks like you and I have similar concerns, I think it would be very helpful to work together on a project to clean up some of these Bulgar-related articles. Too much Original Research, Syntyhesis and misquoting sources. What do you think? How about teaming up? Bulgarios (talk) 08:22, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but but I'm not sure in that, what you say.Jingiby (talk) 13:00, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * May I ask what is your first language Jingiby? Bulgarios (talk) 18:45, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Bulgarian. Jingiby (talk) 19:05, 5 August 2018 (UTC)