Talk:Kundalini/Archive 4

Itzhak Bentov should be referenced in this article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itzhak_Bentov '''Bentov's studies on consciousness have been widely cited. His findings resulted in a "scientifically verifiable version of the kundalini concept."[9] '''

There is also this: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf I am new to wikipedia so can someone source this in the article for me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.100.84.247 (talk) 14:01, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

English variant
Which English is this article written in? Regarding a recent edit, we don't randomly switch a whole article into another English, but we can do it if we have a good reason. Do we? — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 13:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd say wibbly-wobbly English. I can understand the sentences as they stand, mostly, but I'm having trouble making sense of it as a whole. What exactly is it describing, particularly in terms of "Kundalini Syndrome" (which is the link that redirected me to this page)? As in, what actually happens, or is felt by the person experiencing/suffering (depending on "preparation") such an awakening? The text roams around all over the place but never really gives a clear explanation of... well... anything in particular. 51.7.49.61 (talk) 20:38, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Kundalini Syndrome
Western psychologists have been pathologizing Kundalini awakening by referring to it as “Kundalini syndrome”. This “syndrome” does not exist.

What psychologists call “symptoms” are part of the mind and body’s natural transformation or “transfiguration” of an awakened consciousness. This “transfiguration” after Kundalini is natural and has been well documented and explained in scripture and sacred texts (Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Egyptian…). The prophet Jesus is the most famous example in history of a transfiguration after Kundalini.

Kundalini (enlightenment) is often confused by people who have experienced a spiritual awakening. Chakra activation is also confused by many as the Kundalini. Chakra awakening or activation can be problematic if it is not then followed with a Kundalini awakening. To balance any “disorders/problems” like sensations of crawling skin or nervous problems one can only resolve these by balancing karma (internal work). The Egyptian book of the Dead (Coming forth by Day) is an ancient prayer book of invocations to the Gods to “balance” the heart (chakra/karma), essentially it is a guide for anyone who has had a chakra/spiritual awakening or Kundalini. These undesirable effects are not a “syndrome” but part of awakening and they cannot be helped by western psychologists.

Avoid hatred, anger, judgement etc. meditate daily and these unpleasant energies will disappear.

The Psalms are also a guide to an awakened consciousness after Kundalini and repeatedly invoke the Lord to “defeat” those who persecute you (internal energies/conflicts). All these battles are happening within you and only you can resolve them through prayer, love and forgiveness (balance/good karma).

The Kundalini cannot awaken spontaneously; this is greatly misunderstood. Kundalini (enlightenment) takes years to achieve. Spiritual and chakra awakenings/activations are common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.173.203.111 (talk) 16:41, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I found the deleted article on kundalini syndrome to be quite comprehensive and balanced. The article was careful to describe kundalini syndrome as a convenient term applied to a chronic nervous disorder that many people suffer from (myself included). The effects of this disorder are relatively poorly documented in modern medicine but the symptoms have been well known in traditional yogic and meditative traditions for centuries. Ontological claims were not invoked in the article. I'm disappointed that the article was removed, because it is difficult to find information online about what can be quite a debilitating condition that is not associated with the traditional Hindu or Buddhist websites that invoke traditional and possibly alienating explanations for sufferers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.149.43.18 (talk) 21:21, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Since you have the article, please post in to http://wikinfo.org, a similiar site to wikipedia, the policy of what to allow is looser. GangofOne (talk) 03:06, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd appreciate that also, as I'm only on this page because the syndrome was referenced in another article, and the section covering it in this article is damn near gibberish, at least to someone unfamiliar with the subject area... which is something I'm pretty sure is a Bad Thing when it comes to writing an encyclopaedic resource (as opposed to a textbook for an expert in the field). 51.7.49.61 (talk) 20:41, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

I do not have the article. It was present on Wikipedia and then deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.71.29.47 (talk) 12:45, 17 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Related would be Culture-bound syndrome. — Paleo  Neonate  – 12:47, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Kundalini Awakening or Just a Panic Attack
Kundalini awakening symptoms are very similar to panic attack. Personally, I'm sure they are the same. But at least they are similar. And what is more important, medical treatment is the same! Please add this fact to the article. Zyavrik (talk) 06:02, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

—

I disagree wholeheartedly with adding "This fact" to the article. To do so would be to continue the downward quality trend that has been ongoing here.

The claim that panic attacks resemble Kundalini Awakening symptoms or signs is almost never true of all of the spiritual cultures that teach Kundalini familiar to me - which is where most people will awaken or activate their Kundalini. Most people accomplish a smooth yet challenging experience of Kundalini. As the claim is not a true representation of common occurrences, it should therefore not be advanced as a fact without such a stipulation.

Most Kundalini awakenings occur devoid of the need for any medical interventions. It's a spiritual event, rarely a medical one.

A few awakenings occur that cause mania, panic etc. Many awakenings include significant upheavals. Fear (Panic) is a most non-constructive response to an awakening that one could attempt.

What can be true, fortunately rarely, is the wild fury that someone without wisdom, without any spiritual preparation, often with the destabilising influence of drugs, and ambitious use of varied occult methods combine to release Kundalini, and what the person experiences is far beyond any panic attack. They may never recover their sanity. Again, not like a panic attack.

Source - I am a Kundalini teacher, and a principal moderator on reddit wrt Kundalini.

01:03, 10 November 2017 (UTC)38.121.69.212 (talk)

I agree. Kundalini can be uncomfortable and can create numerous and various uncomfortable symptoms, back aches, leg jerks, coughing etc. but typically, there are also intermittent feelings of a heightened spiritual sense of well being. In my opinion. Kundalini is an on-going process even long after the much talked about "peak experience." There is always East to go. Cybersister27 (talk) 06:27, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Since it is very subjective and a force that has not been verified, many things are attributed as being due to kundalini. Swami/Guru instructions commonly attribute to it symptoms which may even be the result of unhealthy practices.  In high control groups, symptoms which are the result of natural alert systems that would normally deter people from pursuing, are attributed to progress on the path.  It would not be very difficult to find sources about this.  — Paleo  Neonate  – 12:52, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Kundalini (disambiguation)
The Kundalini disambiguation page is no longer relevant to the Kundalini article page - and yet it redirects to that page. The link should be removed. It creates unnecessary confusion. Cybersister27 (talk) 06:18, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Christian mysticism
There is a huge difference between Kundalini and chakra activation or spiritual awaking. This wiki page covers only chakra awaking and various meditative states of consciousness achieved my yogis, it does not explain Kundalini. I have made some corrections and each time my additions have been sabotaged and deleted. In Christianity Kundalini is referred to as “the fire of Pentecost”. The story of Jesus describes the Kundalini process and awakening into the Christ consciousness beginning with the death (ego) and resurrection, visions, healing, anointing of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost / enlightenment) transfiguration and ascent into Heaven/higher Christ consciousness.

In Buddhism, the "Tibetan book of the dead" (Bardo Thodol) describes the Kundalini / Enlightenment process of death (ego) and reincarnation (the awakened one). In the west spiritual teachers believe the Tibetan book of the dead is a teaching that guides one through the physical death of the body to physical reincarnation and not the spiritual death of the ego and transfiguration (rebirth). This misunderstanding of the Kundalini / enlightenment process is why so many who have experienced a chakra activation believe they are enlightened.

Kundalini awakening can only happen after years of contemplative meditation, repentance and complete surrender to God. It cannot happen spontaneously. Chakra activation is quite common and is not Kundalini.

Fire of Pentecost / Kundalini awakening / Enlightenment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrad_of_Landsberg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.168.2.92 (talk) 10:54, 20 August 2018‎ (UTC)


 * There indeed are new age syncretic Christian mysticism movements that appropriate concepts like Kundalini. It would be possible to have a section about it if it's sourced to reliable secondary or tertiary sources.  Otherwise it is original research (WP:OR).  — Paleo  Neonate  – 11:31, 20 August 2018 (UTC)


 * @IP editor: we welcome your expertise on the subject. However, all information added to Wikipedia is required to be verifiable to a published reliable source, one which is independent from the subject. As you are familiar with the topic, perhaps you can suggest such a source? A link will suffice, other editors here can format them for you if they are acceptable sources.
 * Note however that Wikipedia talk pages are meant for constructing articles, not for forum-like debates about the subject itself, nor for publishing your own conclusions about the topic. If you cannot or will not provide sources to verify the Christian and Buddhist content you wish to add, but insist on continuing to request its addition to the article here, you will be blocked from editing. Thank you. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:23, 20 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Adding: now that I checked, it seems that the "Western significance" section already covers this, although like for any article, improvement is possible. — Paleo  Neonate  – 12:37, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Focus of article
It seems that this article and the one on Kundalini yoga have become confused. There is however good reason to have two articles, as this one can naturally focus on what Kundalini is, and the other can focus on the school of yoga. What we have right now is close to a content fork with much unnecessary overlap.

To achieve this focus, much material currently here will need to be removed, and possibly reused in the other article if it's not already covered there.

Alternatively, people may think that the two articles are covering the same territory, in which case they should be merged. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:45, 22 March 2019 (UTC)


 * nice article for your to-do list? Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  18:18, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Science
May I suggest the addition of one section to this article: a section on the scientific consensus on this topic? I find it odd that this "encyclopedic" article goes in-depth on the various concepts, which claim some sort of "existence" of these spiritual entities, but does not address whether such things actually exist in a scientific sense.

I would suggest the addition of a "Science" section to the article with content along the lines of "all the content herein is unsupported by any and all scientifically accepted evidence, and the scientific consensus that these supernatural entities exist is in the negative. Evidence-based medicine does not support the veracity of any of the claims herein."

Compare this against, e.g. articles on Christian or Muslim mythology, and I am sure you will find sections that discuss the objective reality and scientific consensus on claims of paranormal/supernatural phenomena. However, this article is clearly deficient in that respect; it makes objective claims to natural phenomena which are simply false, but that is not addressed in this article.

Newage articles in general on Wikipedia are poorly edited, and it is disgraceful that such pseudoscience is given a platform here. 138.16.128.0 (talk) 23:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your thoughts. All articles are 'works in progress' by volunteers, and can always be improved. However, this article states clearly in the first sentence "in Hinduism ... a form of divine energy", so unambiguously identifying it as a religious topic. In addition, it is throughout qualified by "reported", "The concept of", "described as", "is said to", "Yogis ... consider that", "According to Hindu tradition". All of this makes it clear that Wikipedia does not endorse or assert scientific "reality" of the reported phenomena but is describing a religious or spiritual experience.


 * This is accompanied by a single sentence on the "New Age" presentation of the concept, and then a section on its psychological interpretation, which gives a scientific view of the phenomena. All of this is very far from being a "New Age" article uncritically endorsing some new fad. But, room for improvement, certainly. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:49, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

All these "The concept of", "described as", "is said to", "Yogis ... consider that", are weasel words, asking for the "by whom" tag.

-》 Let us clearly state that science does not cofirm this.


 * Science doesn't confirm any religion. These are medieval beliefs within Hinduism. It may be as well to mention that before these phrases were added, the article was speaking in Wikipedia's voice, exactly what we don't want. That Hinduism has these concepts is true and neutral. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:34, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Growing interest
Mystic experiences are an interesting problem in neurology and I'm aware that there indeed was/is related research, but rare and by specific people. The literature produced by some of those groups was also contestable. The first link to Google Scholar seems to only lead to a search results page, it would be best to provide a more specific citation. I unfortunately cannot access the second source for this claim, so cannot verify if it really says that the interest is on the rise. Thanks, — Paleo Neonate  – 10:16, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Clarification: the above was in relation to this. — Paleo Neonate  – 19:48, 10 July 2019 (UTC)