Talk:Kurdish Hezbollah

= Comments =

Stated non-violence
I deleted the state that the turkish Hizbollah are 'non-violent for 10 years', because the source of that statement was not readible. Besides that, they still do violent actions against PKK and HDP. It's even said that they fought with the Islamic State. Only Turkish Government names them as non-violent, no matter what they do, because this is mostly a turkish influenced violent group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:89:2F09:3E00:C180:54E1:1A87:AC0E (talk) 19:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Page name
What is up with this pages name? Is (turkish) included to signify that this group is active in Turkey? If so the brackets should come after the name.--nixie 00:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Hizbullah's within Turkey
There is another Hizbullah operating in the Kurdish areas of the Turkish Republic. Are there two articles on the same group? If not some one with the knowledge should clarify the relations between the two groups. Bertilvidet 10:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Lebanon
The article states "Kurdish Hizballah or Turkish Hizballah has no official organic ties with either the Lebanon-based Islamist group also named Hizballah or its offshoots throughout the Middle East. Notwithstanding a few similarities in terms of ideology, methods and goals, they are essentially very distinct terrorist groups."

and then goes on with a whole load of stuf about Lebanese Hezbollah.

Surely if the first statement is true the rest is irrelevant? AndrewRT 20:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Group
thies Hizbullah is not Turkish-Kurdish, thies is Kurdish islamic Group

Title?
I know that I am going on to some sensitive ground here, but most of the refs refer to this group as "Turkish Hezbullah".. Shouldn't we refrain from interpreting the sources? Besides, to my personal knowledge, this group incorporates many Turkish elements, maybe in a majority at the moment. I might be wrong, but I think that the most common name for this group in English is "Turkish Hezbollah" and not "Kurdish Hezbollah"..

Here are the google results:


 * "Kurdish Hezbollah" - wikipedia : 533 hits


 * (Some of the hits are from Wikipedia redirects like answers.com)


 * "Turkish Hezbollah" - wikipedia : 10,500 hits

I don't want anyone get hyped over this, but I will be moving the page per the results above. It is not even clear if these people refer to themselves as "Kurdish Hezbollah" (if they had, then there would be a different argument). However, as things currently stand, the overwhelming Google search points us towards the neccessity of the move. Cheers! Baristarim 03:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * On second thought, "Hezbollah (Turkey)" could also be used.. Will have to think about it.. Baristarim 03:40, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In fact, Hezbollah (Turkey) might be better. Any comments? If there are no objections eventually I will move it in a couple of days. Baristarim 04:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess that nobody has objected after 3 months :) I will do the move...

Look at the first few words on this, it is called Hizbullahî Kurdî, or the Kurdish hezbollah, the Google hits mentioned are just the result of amateur reference to this hezbollah in contrast to the more well know Hezbollah in Palestine/Syria/Lebanon

the Reason for this is that most terroristic activity by this hezbollah has been committed in Turkey and against Turkish government, but this movement does not identify itself as Turkish but, well of course Kurdish, that's the point of this whole movement, why harm Turkey, if you think you are a stakeholder in the future of Turkey? They only look forward to a Kurdish future in the region,

Think about it.. I think it should be in Kurdish Hezbollah
 * —-— .:Seth Nimbosa:.  (talk • contribs) 07:56, 24 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Users must understand that this group is a mix of Turks and Kurds as sourced on the article and it is not a major group in Turkey. The Turkish Hezbollah (some Turkish citizens who want a Islamist country) in Turkey which in parallel have some similar aims with this group but more with the MHP. There can be misunderstanding that can arose because of this title. But calling it Kurdish Hezbullah just because it is majority Kurds is not correct, we don't even know if they identify themselfs as Kurdish.
 * Özgūr Talk Hist 11:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hizbullahî Kurdî i think refers to a separate Hezbollah mostly active from the Kurdish-inhabited areas, further research may show two different Hezbollahs in Turkey, one Kurdish and the other primarily Turkish, but I am not an authority on this
 * —-— .:Seth Nimbosa:.  (talk • contribs) 10:15, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

misleading statements and quotes
Sorry, but I suppose that the article needs a thorough rewrite. For a start I would recommend to read the backgrounder of Human Rights Watch What is Turkey's Hizbullah? published on 16 January 2000. Statements that need correction include:


 * The group... is believed and documented by several human rights activists that the group was actually founded by Veli Küçük of the Turkish Gendarmerie to target the PKK and its sympathizers.
 * The quote does not confirm this allegation. Veli Kücük is being accused of having founded JITEM
 * ...though recently they have targeted both the PKK and the Turkish government
 * The quoted text talks about backfire, which is more likely to mean ran out of control. The quote is from 2003 so that recently has no meaning in 2009. In addition, Hezbollah targeted mainly civilians sympathetic to the course of the PKK.


 * The attacks in Istanbul in November 2003 were addressed to Al-Qaeda, not Hezbollah (see 2003 Istanbul bombings for more details
 * ... conducting low-level bombings against liquor stores, bordellos, and other establishments that the organization considered "anti-Islamic."
 * No quote given for this assumption that is not correct, either. To the end of their violent actions Hezbollah targeted people drinking alcohol or women wearing mini shirts etc. (quoted according to a verdict in one of the trials; see http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2007/03/23/guncel/gun02.html)

This is just the beginning of a longer list for a cleanup. My question: does anyone first want to discuss these items or should I go ahead with the rewrite? Sc.helm (talk) 10:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

there a no kurdish hizbollah
its turkish hizbollah who founded by turkish statae to fight agaisnt pkk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.182.43.132 (talk) 20:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

The name should be chosen according to English sources. According to consensus reached here before, in these sources Turkish Hezbollah is the most popular one. If it is not, try WP:RM. Kavas (talk) 17:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

When I utilized the search box at google.com I have found 1.980 results for Hizbullah (Turkey), 20800 results for "Turkish Hezbollah " and 6670 results for ""Turkish Hizbullah". Kavas (talk) 19:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Google books:


 * "Turkish Hezbollah" -Llc 220 results
 * "Kurdish Hezbollah" -Llc 96 results
 * "Turkish Hezbullah" -Llc 130 results
 * "Kurdish Hizbullah" -Llc 52 results

are there other alternative names ? Takabeg (talk) 22:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Hizbullah (Turkey)? Kavas (talk) 20:30, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * + Hizbullah + Turkey -Turkish-Hezbollah 2,490 results, but there is probability this results could includes other Hizbullahs/Hezbollahs. Takabeg (talk) 01:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Takabeg (talk) 01:18, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hizbullah "in Turkey" -Hezbollah 991 results (minimum) 347
 * Hezbollah "in Turkey" -Hizbullah 1,060 results (minimum) 387

The name Turkish Hezbollah may come up most on google, but first of all it's POV, secondly and most importantly, it is simply incorrect because this organisation is not called "The Turkish Hezbollah," their name is Hizbullah. And if anything they are the Kurdish Hezbollah.Kermanshahi (talk) 21:27, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Hizbullah, not Hizbollah
The name in Turkish and Kurdish is Hizbullah, never Hezbollah neither other similar versions. Unless this is very specifically a (mistaken) English standard (and can be sourced) there is absolutely no reason to change the I for E. Turkish and Kurdish are both written with Latin alphabet, so no transcription alternatives are allowed, as there is no transcription (as opposed to the case of Lebanese Hiz/Hez/bu/bo/llah). If nobody objects with good reasons, I'll do the changes.Ilyacadiz (talk) 08:16, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 18 June 2014

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. The current title is blatantly wrong and no has specifically opposed. No prejudice against a new RM discussing the issues of whether it should be "Kurdish" or "(Turkey)" in the title, or whether it should be "Hezbollah" or "Hizbullah". Jenks24 (talk) 06:14, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Kurdish Hizbollah (Turkey) → Kurdish Hezbollah – Correct grammar. --Relisted. Armbrust The Homunculus 12:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC)  – elmasmelih ( used to be KazekageTR ) 22:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). EdJohnston (talk) 04:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This request needs explanation.
 * What is the grammar problem?
 * Is there evidence to justify the 'Hezbollah' spelling in Turkish?
 * Is the title still precise if the (Turkey) is omitted?
 * Note that the article cites an Oxford publication that calls it 'The Kurdish Hizbullah in Turkey'. EdJohnston (talk) 04:19, 19 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The grammar thing was the second question you've asked which mentioned above, i assume that the correct pronounciation is Hezbollah not Hizbollah.
 * precise, there is no other Kurdish Hezbollah. elmasmelih ( used to be KazekageTR ) 06:40, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Or we could just rename it to Hezbollah (Turkey) as it requested above. elmasmelih ( used to be KazekageTR ) 15:42, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I assume this is romanization from Arabic. If this is so, then you need to specify why the romanization system you propose is more correct that other systems. Is this instead romanization from Kurdish? And what RS are you using to support your position? The article has several sources that spell things in several different ways. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 05:44, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Per WP:COMMON it is Hezbollah i assume. And lik i said there is no other Kurdis Hezbollah so we dont need xxxx(Turkey) thing in it. elmasmelih ( used to be KazekageTR ) 19:29, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * You assume, but can you provide RSes that show a majority usage of one form over another? The article uses various different WP:RS that spell things in various different manners. Turkish uses a Latinized alphabet, and according to our article, it says "Hizbullahı", but Kurdish is written with both a Latin and an Arabic alphabet, so could be romanized differently. Arabic which does not use a Latin alphabet has several different romanizations schemes. These differ in how "Hezbollah"/"Hizbullah"/etc are spelled. The U.S. State Department uses a different romanization standard than the British Foreign Office. Associated Press uses a different one from US State Dept. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 04:58, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * But i dont see 'Hizbollah' anywhere on web or wikipedia, is it a mixture of Turkish and English ??? Hizbullah+Hezbollah=Hizbollah ? Hezbollah is the common naming in Wikipedia. When i write Hizbullah on Turkish Google it says 'Hizbullah' mı demek istediniz? An in UK Google Did you mean 'Hezbollah' ?
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 26 December 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over two weeks. Jenks24 (talk) 05:07, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Kurdish Hezbollah → Turkish Hezbollah – The organization official name is just "Hizbullah" in Turkey. It is officially called as "Turkey's Hezbollah" and "Turkish Hezbollah". Check the sources---> The article's title does not agree with the references. Books, news and articles always call it as a Turkish Hezbollah, not Kurdish Hezbollah. See the book,

Ferakp (talk) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 08:50, 3 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name
The official name of the organisation is Hizbullah. It mentioned it in its manifesti that it released in 2012: http://www.dogruhaber.com.tr/haber/21776-hizbullah-cemaatinin-manifestosu-yayinlandi/

Hizbullah's members are mostly Kurds and it operates mostly in Kurdish areas so to call it Turkish Hizbullah is misleading, the name should be changed to "Kurdish Hizbullah" or "Hizbullah in Turkey"

Many Turkish and Kurdish sources mentioned that Hzbullah is a majority Kurdish organisation with influence in mostly Kurdish populated areas: Source 1: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/originals/2015/06/turkey-syria-kurds-turkish-hezbollah-reconcile-isis-pkk.html

Source 2: http://www.gazetevatan.com/rusen-cakir-425032-yazar-yazisi-hizbullah-tan-33-yil-gecikmeli-manifesto/

And Hizbullah itself says that it want to be part of the solution for the Kurdish issue seeing itself as important part of the Kurdish side and dont accepts the PKK as representatives of the Kurdish people: Source 1: https://huseynisevda.biz/viewpage.php?page_id=87

Source 2: http://www.dogruhaber.com.tr/haber/20218-hizbullah-cemaatinden-kurd-meselesi-hasbihali/

The founders Hüseyin Velioğlu and İsa Altsoy and the current leader Edip Gümüs are both Kurds. And Oxford Islamic Studies calls it "Kurdish Hizbullah": http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t236/e0317

So Hizbullahs members are mostly Kurds, the organisation sees itself as representative of Kurdish people and Turkish sources also mention that Hizbullah is mostly active in Kurdish areas, so the Name should be changed.--Alan Genco (talk) 23:36, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060928063225/http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1226-03.htm to http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1226-03.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100130213107/http://www.radikal.com.tr/1999/07/03/turkiye/01tur.html to http://www.radikal.com.tr/1999/07/03/turkiye/01tur.html
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