Talk:Kurt Angle/Archive 2

'Granted Release' or Fired?
There are credible reports (from Wrestling Observer, PWTorch, and PWInsider) that Angle did not in fact ask for an early release, but rather was fired due to his personal issues. There is a big and important difference, and I feel that this should at least be referenced to give reader's the full story, as it is available at this time.

If this is true, than the WWE will begin "Armageddon". User:Terrie95 10:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it should also be noted that on a recent WWE Mobile Alert it was said that the meeting that decided his release was far from amicable and that Kurt was apparently an emotional wreck. Although I myself did not receive the alert it was reported at prowrestling.com. Kisshapedbullet 03:59, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * prowrestling.com is not always reliable because they post a lot of rumors. TJ Spyke 05:18, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

True, definitely. However, any wrestling news site including the Observer are always going to be heavily rumored based and hard to determine the validity of their "news". Hopefully somebody that has Mobile Alerts can validate the claim. Kisshapedbullet 16:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * he obviously left cuz he knew his career would end prematurely in ECW, considerin it was born again —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.156.5 (talk • contribs)
 * Maybe he was tired of getting moved from show to show wherever WWE had a ratings problem...68.149.233.141 08:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Unlikely, as his TNA stint has finally proven - Kurt Angle is not a draw. The fact of his departure is that its was mutual termination due to several factors: repeated injuries, he's injured himself again in his match with RVD only a few days previous, at this point in tim he needs to take a time of to heal. Secondly, his continued use of painkillers and if rumors are to be believed, steroids and thirdly, his declining mental state. Angle is in the same place Eddie Guerrero was in 2001, Vince knew this and wanted him to get help. Unfortunately Angle is pig headed and from once being the most humble of men, had developed a huge ego, in a fit of pique he went to TNA instead of getting healthy. TNA is a company with no drugs policy who right now are only interested in ratings, not the health of their performers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.36.95 (talk • contribs)
 * Not to get into the rest of you comments, but I disagree that Angle is not a draw (and you offer no proof that he isn't). TJ Spyke
 * TNAs ratings rose only .1 on the first show following the signing of Angle and have't budged at all since. Angle has been the focus of much of the company's advertising and been giving countless interviews to various sources, i'd say that if you've heard of TNA, you know Angle works there. Angle is loved by smart fans but you're average mark still is unfortunately concerned with being entertained first, watching a good wrestling match second. He was never a star on a level with The Rock, Austin or Hogan so its unlikely that WWE were trying to raise the ratings of ECW by placing him there. His involvement with ECW was simply to give the brand credibility by having established Main Eventers. The source for the opinion, the wrestling observer which isnt online and general observations of my own and at a website i own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.169.224 (talk • contribs)
 * As much as I like TNA, I don't need anyone would have much of an impact on their ratings yet. Hogan/Rock/Austin or any other big name. Angle is the biggest wrestler in TNA, and was one of the biggest one in WWE. TJ Spyke 14:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Apology
Please accept my apologies for all of the annoyances I have caused the people on this talk page and the people who edit the article. I was watching ECW last night and saw the WWE put over Kurt Angle when talking about his release. If they had really fired him I don't think that they would have done that. I admit that I was wrong and I apologize for pushing my point of view so hard. Please accept my apology. Hybrid 23:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

And if he asked for his release, or in simpler terms "quit", they would have put him over?
 * Yes, if he quit for the right reasons, it saved them money, and he was planning on coming back someday. Hybrid 06:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Angle was fired, that's the story that has been basically confirmed. His mental and physical condition was deteriorating, and he had been causing problems backstage, including arguing over storylines and being left off SummerSlam. When Angle refused to go into rehab, he was fired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.74.118 (talk • contribs)
 * No, that's the rumor you heard. There is no proof that he was fired. Also, please sign your comments. TJ Spyke 02:33, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Spyke, I suppose I owe you a bigger apology than I owe anyone else. I'm sorry.  Hybrid

angle was fired —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.130.70.133 (talk • contribs).

was the person who was so adamant about angle's release/firing an agent of wwe or just an angle-basher with nothing more than a few rumor sites? i have a hard time believing the former. ---pud---11:04---10/17/06---

If you were referring to me, I was the latter. After the embarrassment I suffered on this talk page, I have begun to fix my "smark" attitude.  T H  L  22:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Grion Injury
Is it a real injury?Freebird Jackson 03:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I've heard that it's a real injury and it's what kept him from participating in a three way match for the ECW World Heavyweight Championship against Sabu and the Big Show at Summerslam. I've read about Angle playing the groin injury off as not being serious, despite being told so numerous times backstage. Angle has been known to work with injuries for extended periods of time, even prolonging surgical procedures for much longer than recommended. According to WWE.com, Angle was released from his contract today citing personal issues. What those issues are, hasn't been revealed and might not be revealed to the public at large. It's entirely possible that his body is just giving out on him. Odin&#39;s Beard 23:51, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Picture near bottom
It says he's performing the Angle Lock on Pamela Anderson on the picture near the bottom... The person is obviously not her, because it's a male.

Kurt released
WWE.com simply says that Angle was granted an early release from his contract due to personal issues. It doesn't really say, but I'd guess that Angle asked to be released since the WWE was using him as a way of putting over ECW. Angle had always willingly participated in every gimmick and storyline that the WWE writers came up with for him. Sometimes he wasn't thrilled, but always did them. It's a sign of professionalism that would probably have granted him a very good relationship with WWE management and a good reputation in the locker room. From what I've read, the plan was to have Angle participate against the Big Show and Sabu in a triple threat mat for the ECW Heavyweight Championship at Summerslam, but was pulled because of his groin injury. Odin&#39;s Beard 23:57, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I'm sure that when any information is given out, even if it isn't to the general public, wrestlingobserver.com will let everyone know. Hybrid 00:11, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, Wrestling Observer will report rumors they hear. Anyways, Angle has had injuries for quite some time now but hasn't taken time off to let them heal, but by asking for his release he doesn't have to feel obligated to wrestle and can let his injuries heal. TJ Spyke 00:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting, the Wrestling Observer reports that Angle was fired. -- CRiyl 01:21, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I trust WWE more over this. TJ Spyke 01:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't. I'm not saying the Wrestling Observer is correct at all. Cause the WWE could be correct also. But don't you think the WWE would have reported like they did so they didn't look bad? -- David Reject 02:51, 26 August 2006

Kurt wouldn't of asked to be released because he didn't like his role at the current time, ECW is the place for his newer angrier character. Hopefully it is nothing to do with his family and as soon as things are sorted out he will make an immediate return. K-man-1 07:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC) I heard that it was something to do with him being on death watch... he is injury prone.

From what I've read today, Angle gave an interview with WWE.com and he stated that his body is just too beaten up for him to continue. He's put off having operations for too long, he hasn't given his body time to heal up from various nagging injuries, etc. I've heard that he basically has to take a truckload of painkillers everyday just to get by. That isn't included in the interview he gave to WWE.com, merely something that's been talked about backstage. There are probably lots of reasons why Angle left the company. Aside from his injuries, Angle's marriage is on it's last legs, dependency on his pain medication. I've heard that Angle had a $1 million per year guaranteed contract that always pays while a wrestler is healing from injuries or from drug rehab. Evidently, he's opted out of this contract, for whatever reason. The whole story isn't out yet of course, there's probably still a lot more to this. If I had to guess, Angle's injuries, combined with his growing dependency on painkillers, and his family problems have just combined with an overall burnout with wrestling. Odin&#39;s Beard 23:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

If he had a guaranteed $1 million contract it is far more likely that he was fired for all of the time he had to take off with his family and his injuries. Not even the WWE will just throw money away like that for one person - aside from Hulk. And everyone knows that the WWE doesn't report everything said in an interview if it would make them look bad. Hybrid 06:03, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if they'd do that because it'd be bound to get out. Angle is still considered one of the top names in the WWE and for him to get screwed over in that sense would cause ripples backstage that would find themselves leaked out to the press eventually due to the outrage. Angle is one of the most loyal, devoted, and dependable wrestlers that Vince has ever had work for him. He'd always gone along with every storyline cooked up for him, even if he didn't particularly like it, which is something that's rare. The contract guarantee is common place I believe. I know that it's been invoked by the likes of Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Steve Austin, and most certainly Triple H. After Triple H tore his quad, he was out for almost a year healing up. Angle is a top draw, he's one of the best wrestlers Vince has, so I doubt that he'd just simply be tossed away because Vince didn't want to pay him while he was out recovering from numerous injuries that should've been treated a long time ago and was put off because of Angle's determination and devotion. Odin&#39;s Beard 00:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Remember that it has only been a few days, there is still time for information like that to leak out to the press. Also, yes Kurt Angle is one of the WWE's most dependable wrestlers, but Vince isn't exactly known for sympathy, or for thinking straight for that matter. Also, the injuries the others suffered were sudden, Kurt's could have been prevented and Vince may be upset that the "New face of ECW" has done this to himself. Vince may consider him a fool for letting himself get in this situation just before he became one of the four men who would carry the new ECW. I think that Vince wasn't thinking straight and decided to punish Kurt for doing this to himself and WWECW. Please note that I don't blame Kurt in any way, but I think Vince does and holds the views that I just stated. Hybrid 02:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Vince posted his comments about Angle's departure on WWE.com. He goes on to say the usual, saying that Angle is a great athlete, a consummate professional and all that. McMahon also states that the release was a mutual agreement and that the door would always be open for Kurt Angle should he wish to when, or if, he is able. If Angle was screwed over, few days or not, it'd probably be out by now. I'd say that Angle would've also stated otherwise, but he hasn't. Since he doesn't work for Vince anymore, he can say what he wishes but he says that the release was amicable and that the relationship with WWE is and has always been very good. Odin&#39;s Beard 23:41, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Did Kurt say that on his website or was that from the WWE interview. If it isn't one of the two a source would be greatly appreciated. Hybrid 02:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's on wwe.com. I think it's still on the front page. TJ Spyke 02:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Spyke, as you probably gathered from our conversation down south, I don't trust he WWE that much. I like the shows just fine, but I don't trust them at all. 71.223.40.167 03:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Forgot to sign in, had to restart my computer Hybrid 03:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If he had a contract that covered the $1 Million a year he couldn't of been fired. Big "if" there because that is a pretty big blanket someone could take advantage of. But, given Angels initial reluctance and even public dismissal of pro wrestling at first it is possible they made that big enough of a provision in the contract. The reason he couldn't of been fired is 'cause that would of been a breach of his contract on the WWEs part. Icanstillcu 22:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It is fairly well known that he did have a contract that was worth around $1 million a year. Also, according to wrestling observer, the WWE, Kurt, and his lawyers met on the morning of his release.  So the WWE could have negotiated with Kurt and his lawyers so they could release him without being sued for breaching the contract.  Hybrid 22:57, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh I certainly understand the reluctance to believe the WWE, but it's all that we have to go by. Angle says it was a mutual decision, the WWE says it was a mutual decision, so that's probably what we're going to have to accept unless someone changes their mind. Odin&#39;s Beard 23:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In the first section on the talk page, it lists several credible sources, in my opinion, that say Angle was actually fired as opposed to being granted a release. I know that there are many people on this page who trust the WWE more than those sources, and then there are the people like me who trust those sources over the WWE.  In the end, how an individual decides what they believe about the release will all come down to which sources they trust more.  I just wish that Angle would put a statement up on his website about the release.  Hybrid 08:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

" It is also said that he had anal sex with Stephanie McMahon in front of Triple H and was fired on the spot." This seems completely like a rumor CharlieP216 18:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

In the beginning of the article it says he was a five time world champion in WWE...But he has six world titles in the WWE, or WCW doesn´t count? Please someone check on this?

Some sites have been saying this,and its true of what I remember Kurt Angle a couple of years ago.

Sites: Look at Kurt Angle. Just look at him right now. His arms have shrunk, and in the last year or so, he's been clasping and unclasping his hands after every major bump, in order to get the feeling back. Let's not forget that he confirmed the problem with numbness in his hands in the past, either. Also, his head has grown - it's blatant, just compare pictures. His head has grown substantially, swelling around the forehead. Now, obviously, it would be a legal quagmire for me to suggest any specific conclusions to do with this. So, instead, to go onto a small tangent, I thought I'd list a couple of the side effects of 'Human Growth Hormone' AKA HGH, which is something some athletes use to build up muscle mass, after...say...people pointing out that your arms are getting all stringy.

A list of reported side effects of HGH.

developing irreversible acromegaly (abnormal growth of bones of the hands and feet and face) high blood pressure heart damage premature aging and death soft tissue swelling thickening of the skin, abnormal hair growth colonic polyps liver damage and glucose intolerance muscle weakness enlargement of the internal organs arthritis impotence Vince McMahon FIRED Kurt Angle. They didn't walk away from that meeting with a hug, and a 'see you later'. Reports are that the meeting was heated, and that Angle left an emotional wreck. But also, it must be pointed out that, unless TNA get in a REALLY interesting court case soon, Kurt Angle was released WITHOUT a no-compete clause. Something that is usually standard in this kind of situation. Why on earth would he do that? Why on earth would Vince McMahon allow one of his biggest stars to just walk out?

The only explanation I can come to is terrifying. It's because Vince McMahon didn't want Kurt Angle to die on his watch.

Now, I'm not making out that TNA are the bad guys here. It's entirely possible that - contrary to reports of Angle's addiction and behaviour being worse than Pillman's and Shawn Michael's at the height of their addictions - everybody is wrong, and Kurt Angle is right. Also, I have no doubt he can be astonishingly convincing. And let's face it - it's the biggest gambit that TNA could have played. But lets bear one thing in mind here. When it comes to Kurt Angle, as 'Turning the Tables' author John Lister pointed out, Vince McMahon can now claim to have the moral upper hand. That's a terrifying thought.

And it could be a good thing for Angle. He's gone from a busy schedule to a light one - chances are that he'll be wrestling a couple of times a month maximum, and obviously that's better than wrestling on a regular basis. So this could genuinely work out to be the best thing for everyone.

But IF the reports are true...and just about every person on the 'inside' appears to be saying that Angle is having problems. user delvecchio213

Semi-protect Request Filed
I have filed a request for semi-protection for the article. This is in response to the numerous edits from anon & inexperienced editors inserting the usual markboard rumors & speculation almost immediately after the news of his release was published at WWE.com and subsequently cut & pasted to said markboards. - Chadbryant 08:47, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Dude,those inexperienced editors need to have experience,right? Then HOW THE HELL DO THEY GET EXPERIENCE if idiots like you (Chadbryant) get it locked? You're that pathetic that you need to act like this is your fucking website, get a life man. Seriously.


 * Who the FUCK are you to try to bully this article around? I've seen nothing from you but the word "mark" used in some form or another for several entries now. The problem is YOUR definition of "markish" may not fit MY definition of "markish" and vice-versa. All YOU are trying to do is have the article look the way YOU want it to just as you have attempted to do with rec.sport.pro-wrestling or WCW Disney Tapings. In fact, "markboard rumors" could almost be considered a personal attack. I'd also like to see how you define an "inexperienced" editor. As if you are better than anyone at editing? Guess placing unwanted sockpuppet tags on user accounts that you think may be your enemies must make you an expert at editing, huh? *lol* --Krusty Surfer Dude 17:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This is an encyclopedia website, not a rumor dirtsheet.PunkCabana 00:55, 27 August 2006 (UTC)PunkCabana
 * That wasn't needed at all Krusty Surfer Dude. Swearing and almost everything else you said was a personal attack. RobJ1981 21:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * True, this is not a rumor dirtsheet. I support your request of semi-protection; however, it would be fair to at least mention the fact that he may have been fired for his time off.  I am going to mention this in the article now.  If anyone should choose to revert it please tell me why.  Hybrid 05:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not a fact. It's just speculation that he was fired, that's why it shouldn't be in there. TJ Spyke 05:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't say it was a fact that he was fired, I said that it was a fact that he may have been fired. Which is true seeing as there are only two possibilities, 1) He was granted a release, or 2) He was fired.  Seeing as there isn't a reliable source (no the WWE is not reliable, sorry) to support either view, in the interest of a neutral article both must be stated.  Hybrid 21:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The only people who know the truth are Kurt Angle and WWE, so unless one of them say otherwise the official reasoning is the one stated in the article already, WP is not for speculation. TJ Spyke 22:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Like I said before it isn't speculation, either he was released or fired. Like it or not the WWE is not a credible source, they have been known to lie in the past so your so called "official reasoning" has no credible official source and doesn't deserve to be the only opinion mentioned-and that is exactly what it is, an opinion.  If both sides aren't going to be represented in the article than niether one should.  Yes, our opinions are different, but they are both valid and seeing as niether one can be proven as fact or disproven then both must be in the article, or niether one should be.  Hybrid 01:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * When a wrestler is fired for real (as opposed to Vince's on-screen kayfabe firings), the WWE typically ceases to acknowledge the wrestler's existence on-screen. Redxiv 16:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * See "Apology" section. That very thing convinced me that he wasn't fired.  Hybrid

Members of the IWC should NOT be allowed to edit anything wrestling-related on this website as they will only post rumors and speculation and "why TNA and ROH rulez and the WWE sukz". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.156.37 (talk • contribs)
 * Unless you can edit the article stay out of this. Hybrid 01:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "Represent both sides"? So list both the official reason stated by WWE and Kurt Angle, along with rumors and speculation listed on sites that often get news wrong? TJ Spyke 02:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Stop calling it rumors and speculation. By pure logic either he was released or he was fired.  Only those two possibilities exist.  It is not speculation, it is an obvious fact.  I am not asking for the multiple reasons he may have been fired, which are speculation, to be stated.  I am simply asking that we say he may have been fired in the article due to the fact that no official source other than the WWE has made a statement.  The WWE is not trustworthy, how hard is that to understand?  Until Kurt Angle releases a statment on his website or gives an interview to someone other than the WWE, who would have no problem leaving part of the interview out, that says he was not fired, the article must represent both sides.  Hybrid 02:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This is an encylcopedia, meaning facts are stated. Unless you have proof that he was fired then there is no need to mention it in the article. Also, wwe.com is a mixed bag because they do post some reliable stuff but they also post kayfabe stories as well. TJ Spyke 02:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Logic is all I have. Only two possibilities exist.  The WWE has been known to lie for non-kayfabe reasons as well and are not to be trusted.  They do not constitute rock-hard proof that he was released and not fired.  Seeing as niether side has rock hard proof, we should state both sides, or simply say he no longer works for the WWE and provide no details.  Hybrid 02:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The wording is just fine though. I've seen the rumors of why he was "fired", and they are pretty much the same reason stated(that his body was beaten down from all these years of wrestling), and it says he was released from his contract. I think it's fine the way it is. TJ Spyke 02:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The way you just said it was indeed fine, but that wasn't what the article said. I changed it to say that.  Dispute solved and thanks for discussing it.  Hybrid 02:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to accept the way it's now worded. TJ Spyke 02:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Good, now it works for both of us. Hybrid 02:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Kids??
I know that it says in the article that he has one daughter and a son on the way, but in the new WWE Magazine (October 2006), he says, "To this day, my wife and I take our kids to the theater." kidS says that they already have more than one. Has anyone heard or read anything about this?? Katie 00:06, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe he was referring to his unborn child. I know some people talk about their kids like that even before they are born. TJ Spyke 00:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Angle definetly does not have a child. Like it usually does, WWE Magazine probably conducted this interview with themselves, not even asking Angle the questions, just writing information down. This time they screwed up, and this was obviously revealed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nick mac (talk • contribs)
 * Angle does have at least one child as seen in a tribute video (Colplay's "Clocks" was the song) that aired before Angle's return in summer 2003. He is seen on camera holding his baby daughter before his neck surgery. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.244.34.241 (talk • contribs)
 * You could also see his child in "The Mania of WrestleMania", a documentary they made for the WrestleMania XX DVD release(it followed the events of WrestleMania XIX, setting up the event and talking to wrestlers competing at it). TJ Spyke 18:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

WWE changing Angle's early release story?
Should we note that WWE is constantly changing the Kurt Angle release story? I mean first WWE said it was a "mutual agreement." Then they said it was "for the best of Angle (and he agreed.) And now they're saying that the meeting between WWE and Angle was "heated and confrontational." ---Debt Jr.
 * Could you provide a link please? I don't see it on the front page and don't feel like searching the website for it. TJ Spyke 02:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * A WWE mobile alert. -- CRiyl 14:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * PR spin du jour really isn't encyclopedic, but it certainly supports keeping the article semi-protected so that the usual cast of anonymous/newbie net.marks don't flock to the article to change the paragraph dealing with his release twenty times in a day. - Chadbryant 03:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

yeah the only thing I've heard is that apparantely WWE Mobile Alerts sent out a message saying that the meeting was "heated and confrontational". I bet he got from a news report claiming that. When at least a few people come in here who have WWE Mobile Alerts and can validate this claim then and only then should this part of the issue even be considered to be revised. Kisshapedbullet 16:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The Observer has released more information about this issue and it seems to lean towards the idea that the split was not necessarily mutual. Obviously this could be speculation but the Observer is considered one of the most credible sources for behind the scene news as you all know. Just putting it out there. Kisshapedbullet 01:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Angle was fired by the WWE for his reliance on painkillers to get through a show. They had hoped to have him back once he gets his life (divorce etc.) and his drug dependance fixed. However he hasn't so they have changed their 'friendly' stance on his release. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.227.99.12 (talk • contribs)
 * Thank you for your opinion, but that won't be added unless WWE or Kurt Angle say that. Also, please sign your comments. TJ Spyke 05:33, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Kurt Angle would never say that he is a drug user as it would damage his reputation beyond belief. WWE are never going to admit that someone employed by them has a dependance to drugs either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.227.99.12 (talk • contribs)
 * Well, it's just speculation unless one of them say it. TJ Spyke 21:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Can someone take that last comment out of the TNA controversy part? Dark Rain September 2006
 * Whoever was talking about the divorce is totally incorrect. The divorce occurred in 2005, and Angle and his wife, Karen, are already back together and expecting a child. The only reason WWE said the meeting was "heated and confrontational" is because if Angle chose to return, they would have a good storyline, with Vince getting Angle upset.

Are you thick or something Angle is not coming back. the reason the WWE released him is because they didn't wat another eddie guerrero on their hands and have Kurt die in or out of the ring.60.227.99.12 09:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

TNA
So is it official if he has signed with Total Nonstop Action Wrestling?user:Dustind
 * Considering they showed that video at the PPV and both TNA's website and Kurt Angle's website has that poster, then it's safe to assume he has signed with them. TJ Spyke 03:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

But do we need 2-3 edits a minute for this? And shouldn't the fact that he is still under a no-compete cause be mentioned?--Bedford 03:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It's the anon IPs that keep vandalizing the article. We don't know his contract status, if he asked to be released by WWE(which was reported), then he wouldn't be under the 90 day no compete claus I think. I don't think TNA could have shown that promo if it applied. TJ Spyke 04:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * He ISN'T under a no-compete cause Dr. R.K.Z
 * Huh? We don't know anything yet.  Most likely he forefeited the remainder of his severance or his lawyers think he'd win a lawsuit due to WWE's contracts being illegal. --David Bixenspan 04:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree mate.
 * Brock Lesnar anyone? --Raderick 05:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Should we protect this article again? The  Hybrid  06:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Considering all the vandalism since the annoucement of Angle signing with TNA, yes I think it should be semi-protected again (at least for the next few days). TJ Spyke 06:48, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree with you there...I can see that this wiki will have vandalism over the next few days due to outrage and rapture by either side of the wrestling world..me not like Angle and TNA but that's life --Mikecraig 22:55, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * McPhail has asked for protection on this wiki --Mikecraig 23:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Wonderful, it should probably stay that way for several weeks seeing as the Wrestling Observer is getting in on the fun. Off the subject a little bit, and I'm not trying to stir this up again, but could this mean that Kurt WAS fired?  The   Hybrid  03:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If Kurt had been fired then he would have that 90 day no-compete clause kick in, and I don't think TNA would have been able to show that promo. TJ Spyke 03:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You make a very good point.  The   Hybrid  03:34, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the "Kirk Angle" paragraph should be removed, after all the official TNA website has "KURT ANGLE IS COMING TO TNA" on its homepage. So its most likely to be a fake source. - RJTReef

Is there any way to put a heavier lock on this article? There are just way too many vandals out there that want to ruin this article with their crap.PunkCabana 03:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)PunkCabana
 * Keep up the good work PunkCabana! - so sick of these losers putting in POV or vandalism --Mikecraig 03:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The only stronger lock is "Full Protection", which makes it so NO ONE can edit it. TJ Spyke 03:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I guess we'll just have to see how all of this pans out, and make all the necessary edits/reverts until then.PunkCabana 03:31, 27 September 2006 (UTC)PunkCabana
 * Too true...I see alot of vandalism is happening to Rikishi wrestling wiki due to his recent arrest by U.S. Marshals - another one to keep an eye on --Mikecraig 03:34, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Does Kurt have rights to his finishing move name "Angle Slam"? Cuz I think it would really suck if TNA changes it, actually "AnglePlex" sounds pretty good, I found that at Kurt's IMDB bio a few years back but proved to be fake.


 * It is named after him, so I would guess that he has the rights to it. I doubt that he WWE would get very far in a lawsuit if he doesn't yet, just because it is named after him. The  Hybrid  21:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


 * And unlike, say, the Dudley Death Drop, or Styles Clash, it's named after his real name, not his stage name. -Darryl Hamlin 05:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, what do you all think, has the article been protected long enough, or should we wait a few more days? The  Hybrid  22:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Kayfabe.
Does the word "kayfabe" have to be scattered all over this article in reference to what happens on TV? Of COURSE it's kayfabe. That's like saying "on ECW, this and that happened (on television)." It just feels like whoever wrote that wanted to feel like a complete smark.


 * When the article is unlocked, be bold and fix the problem. The   Hybrid

A New Beginning
As a huge Kurt Angle fan, I completely welcome the news that he will be able to give loads more world class performances while also taking it easy with a much deserved 20 day rest period a month. I consider Kurt to be the greatest wrestler ever and am glad he has decided against becoming a shoot fighter. In the long run this will be the best option for not only TNA but for Kurt Angle the wrestler and the family man. Kelan 08:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Just because he works less in TNA doesn't mean shit. It takes one wrong move and he is screwed over. Also in tna it is a different style than the wwe. If he goes up against Samoa Joe he is really going to do damage. Also the people you most want to see angle in a match with are people like Samoa Joe, A.J Styles etc. These guys work really good matches but they also have a number of high risk spots(especially A.J). If Angle were to do these sort of matches he will injure himself for sure. 60.227.99.12 09:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey just cause he wrestles those guys doesn't mean he has to wrestle EXACTLY LIKE those guys. Just look at Scott Steiner's matches with Samoa Joe. Joe carried Steiner to his best matches in years with the utmost care. Plus, if Kurt was REALLY, REALLY bad, TNA wouldn't be putting him in the ring at all. Kelan 11:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

i can't fix this yet and sorry if i amateur at this but only ever edit minor details but after the signature move "ankle lock" there should be a "/ angle lock" also there should be a multiple german suplexes aka "i'm ripping off chris benoit" <--- just kidding --saskapoon 13:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

The purpose of the discussion page is to discuss topics that could be used to improve the article, not get into debates about which wrestler could be who or which promotion is the best, or any of the other fanboy crap. Wikipedia isn't a fanboy site. The internet is full of fan forums to talk about this kind of stuff. Odin&#39;s Beard 02:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Too true! --Mikecraig 02:15, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

minor errors
i can't fix this yet and sorry if i amateur at this but only ever edit minor details but after the signature move "ankle lock" there should be a "/ angle lock" also there should be a multiple german suplexes aka "i'm ripping off chris benoit" <--- just kidding --saskapoon 13:05, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The move is not called the Angle Lock. And if you follow the German Suplex link, you'll see that the rolling German Suplexes are mentioned there. --> So sayeth  M  e  t  h  n  o  r Sayeth back|Other sayethings
 * I have heard them call it the "Angle Lock" before, but not for a long time. TJ Spyke 23:16, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That was after he switched shows one time; it was just the announcers getting it wrong because they assumed it would be called the "Angle" lock, just like the "Angle" slam. The official name is the Ankle lock. The   Hybrid  02:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Six-sided ring
I seem to remember Angle saying something in a WWE event near his release about it not mattering if he was in a 4 or 6-sided ring, that he could still be victor (I think he said it to Orton). If someone could get the quote, that would probably go well in the TNA section. Tim Long 01:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You are thinking of when Angle issued the open challenge that Orton accepted. He said that, "I'll fight anyone, be it in a 4-sided, 6-sided, or 8-sided ring." "Be it" is not what he actually said. It may have been, "be they from", but that just doesn't sound right. I do know that he was talking about the wrestler to acccept the challenge, not the ring they would fight in. The   Hybrid  01:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That wasn't really a hint at him going to TNA, really. It was more of him saying "I don't care whether you're from a traditional wrestling promotion ((4-sided ring)), TNA ((6-sided ring)), or MMA ((8-sided ring))," as well as being a bit of a jab toward TNA given to him ((most likely)) by WWE. -Darryl Hamlin 23:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, at that time he probably had no idea that he was going to TNA someday. The   Hybrid  21:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Championships and accomplishments
Looking at WP:PW - there is no reference to this format being phased out !?!? - if there is then please reference for all to know? --Mikecraig 23:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Angle vs Guerrero.
Kurt Angle's feud with Eddie Guerrero did not end at Summerslam 2004. Because both men had cheated to win their respective single's matches the question still remained as to who the better man was, after their Summerslam encounter Angle and Guerrero had a number of matches on Smackdown including a 2-out-of-3 falls match and a Lumberjack match. Their rivalry actually continued right the way up to November of that year when it was settled at the Survivor Series 2004 in a classic Survivor Series 8-man elimination Tag-Team match, Team Angle vs Team Guerrero. Which, incidentally, Team Guerrero won. —The preceding comment was added by 88.111.135.27 (talk • contribs)

Despite when the feud was ended, both men did not cheat to win their respective single's matches. At WrestleMania XX, Guerrero cheated to win. He did not cheat by removing his boot because that was not illegal. What was illegal was the way Guerrero wrapped his legs around the bottom rope while he had Angle in a small package. At SummerSlam 2004, there was cheating in the match. First Luther Reigns - on Angle's behalf - delivered a boot to the back of Guerrero's head. The next instance of cheating was when Guerrero grabbed the referee and pulled him into Angle. The third and final instance of cheating was when Guerrero used his boot to hit Angle in the head. Guerrero then landed his Frog Splash, but only recieved a two-count. Guerrero stepped over Angle to argue with the referee. Angle, who was playing possum, picked Guerrero's ankle and applied the ankle lock. Guerrero then tapped. So while both men cheated, the SummerSlam match had a clean finish. --pud--11/01/2006--12:12

YOU SUCK!
Why did the crowd used to yell: YOU SUCK! to Kurt Angle in his entrance? Was he a heal or face?- SCB '92- Wednesday 18th October 2006 15:47

When he was a heel during the allince storyline in 2001 started primarily by stone cold.--Lucy-marie 14:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Correct Steve Austin started it and it stuck even when he turned face several times. I'm kind of disappointed that it won't be incorporated with his TNA theme music. CharlieP216

The Rock started the chants during a promo years ago and the fans picked up on it.

Edge started the "You Suck" Chants, guys. It was the same storyline where Edge shaved his head. Stone Cold had the fans chanting "What" but Edge got them to chant "You Suck."

Really Pissed?
Is he really pissed at WWE and Vince after having a fallout with them, or is this all BS (kayfabe)? Tim Long 01:25, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is mostly kayfabe. TNA just wants to try to take on WWE someday like WCW did. However they will probably fail because they do not have as large of a fanbase. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.137.13 (talk • contribs).

If this has anything to do with improving the article, tell us what it is now. This isn't a message board. --  T H  L  23:41, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, if he was angry at the company, that would seem to be relevant. Sheesh. Calm down. Tim Long 06:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not relevant at all. TJ Spyke 06:43, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I was calm, and still am; I do understand how what I said could be taken that way, but I meant it to sound monotonous, not angry. It really doesn't matter whether or not he's angry because in the end, he will still be working for TNA. Also, there really isn't a way to find that out for sure unless Angle were to participate in a shoot interview (unlikely) and discuss the subject. At this point everything he says to the public must be taken as kayfabe, unless it is confirmed that it is indeed real by very reliable secondary sources, or someone within the company itself preferably. In the end, this would only become relevant if he were to go back and work for the WWE in the future, and not before that. Cheers, --  T H  L  06:58, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Ankle Lock or Angle Lock
What the fuck! Where the hell does it say that Angle's Ankle lock is known as "Angle Lock," the old WWE profile of him says, Ankle lock not "Angle Lock," and his TNA profile says nothing about his Ankle lock being called "Angle Lock" either, please until TNA confirms this, please leave it alone! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.78.239 (talk • contribs)
 * I have heard Mike Tenay say "Angle Lock" more than once, although i'm not sure how official that is. TJ Spyke 20:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Angle's theme music history
Should it be noted on the article that Kurt Angle's Medal theme music orginally came from The Patriot's music, and that on "In Your House 19: D-Generation X" Sgt. Slaughter used the same music Angle was using in the WWE, which means the Angle's Medal theme existed 2 years before his debut. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.161.78.239 (talk • contribs).
 * That would be relevant to an article about the song itself, not Angle's article. Also, please sign you comments by typing this ~ . Cheers, --  T H  L  21:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It is interesting to note that Kurt Angle's current theme music in TNA is a variation on the song "Lunatic Fringe", which is featured prominently in the cult wrestling movie "Visionquest"

"Draft" to TNA??
I was looking in a newspaper back from early september this year when i discovered an article about Kurt and his transfer to TNA. It was saying that rather than him getting an early release, he was kicked off WWE for drug taking (steroids in particular) he admitted to this so why is it not in the main article??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.114.46 (talk • contribs)
 * Because it's not true, and i've never seen ANY reports like that. TJ Spyke 18:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I used to think that he had been fired as well, but by simply watching the T.V. shows it became obvious that he left of his own free will. He did admit to being hooked on pain killers in the past, but by the time he left he wasn't hooked on them anymore. He left because of his many, many injuries. TNA has a lighter schedule; one that fit his health and family needs better. That is why he left. --  T H  L CCD 22:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

WWE Legal Letter
I read somewhere he was sent a legal letter by WWE saying he can no longer use the nickname "Machine" or "Wrestling Machine" because they are WWE trademarks. He also can no longer use the name "Angle Slam" as his finisher as you may have noticed he has reverted back to the "Olympic Slam" name since he started with TNA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.184.169.37 (talk) 05:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

If you find the letter again, please let us know. Cheers, --  T H  L  R  05:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If you search the USPTO website, it is indeed true that WWE trademarked "The Wrestling Machine". However, they did NOT trademark "Angle Slam", so who knows why TNA just calls it the Olympic Slam. TJ Spyke 06:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Interesting. So, now that the facts are straight, should this stuff be added to the article? It seems fairly notable, but I'm not sure seeing as it is just a nickname. --  T H  L  R  06:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

WWE did not trademark "Angle Slam" but he can no longer use the name due to some legal reason. I had heard of this before his first !MPACT apperance and thought it was evidenced by Mike Tenay calling it the Olympic slam every time even though it has been called "Angle Slam" for about 5-6 years now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucy-marie (talk • contribs)

If you can find the source you heard it from that would be great. --  T H  L  R  20:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe they think "Olympic Slam" sounds more impressive than just "Angle Slam". TJ Spyke 21:16, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Very possible. I guess without a source all we can do is theorize. --  T H  L  21:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The Ironic thing is that the reason he changed it intially from Olympic Slam to Angle Slam is that the IOC complained. I guess they don't have a problem with it anymore.Isaac Benaron 23:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

WWE Reaction
Why does the thing about WWE's (sort of) response to Angle joining TNA keep getting deleted? The WWE is never going to mention TNA on the air (or off it for that) so that thing about the #4 story of 2006 needs to stay up. Plus, alot of people have been wondering about that, so it is helpful. User: Saget53 20:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It was a passing mention that will be forgotten soon. Do you thing that in even just 6 months that WWE magazine made a 2 sentence about Angle's time off lasting just 3 weeks (which doesn't even mention TNA)? TJ Spyke 03:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Interviews and Guest Appearences
Kurt Angle has had several interviews and guest appearences on TV shows since he left WWE where he has been insulting WWE and Vince McMahon. I think there should be a section in the article about this but thought i should put the idea here 1st Don.-.J 15:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not TV, radio appearences. I don't think it's notable, especially since many other wrestlers do the same thing. TJ Spyke 23:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * He did have an interview with IGN where, if I remember correctly, he did go off a bit on Vince and WWE. IMO, he's being entirely ungrateful. He will always be best known for his accomplisments in WWE, and he should be grateful to Vince for the professional wrestling accolades that he has. But, yeah, there was at least one online interview. Anakinjmt 21:31, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That was fairly recent though. TJ Spyke 22:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Bubba Sponge Show
He made whats fast become an infamous appearence on the Bubba Sponge show a few weeks back where he made around a dozen false or absurd statements about WWE, WWE Wrestlers and TNA. Many saw the interview as akin to ones The Ultimate Warrior has made and further evidence of his diminishing mental health. At the time of his release, this was one of the reasons along with his physical state and possible painkiller addiction that WWE sources indicated we the reasons for the termination. Should the actual reasons for his release not be addressed, at least as speculation? and should his current health not be addressed also? maybe a controversy section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.224.147 (talk • contribs)
 * 1)Speculation should NEVER go in an article. 2)His current health is unknown to anyone but Angle and his doctor. 3)Do you have any proof that any of the statements he made are false? Besides, Hulk Hogan makes BS statements on Bubba's show all the time. TJ Spyke 23:08, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well for one he claimed that TNA Impact posted a higher rating than SmackDown and ECW, completely false, the ratings are a matter of public record. Also in the same interview he claims The Big Show was a hard worker, its also on record from WWE Superstars, the Undertaker for one in a shoot interview conducted with TSNs Off The Record, that Big Show was considered the laziest worker in WWE. Angle also claims that TNA Owner Robert Carter has enough money to buy WWE, again, completely false, Panda Energys turnover is around 200 million dollars as opposed to WWEs 400 million.

Id support a section in Hogans bio about his continued BS statements in the media if its not already there as its long been a source of amusement and disdain in equal measure to the wrestling community. Its part of who Hogan is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vwwe (talk • contribs)
 * I'm still not sure how big of a deal it is since I don't think anyone will remember it in a few weeks (see the interview where A.J. Styles got upset when asked about his gay followers). TJ Spyke 00:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

6 Mar 2007 steroid allegations
I realize the information I've added about today's Sports Illustrated report is controversial and only amounts to allegations. I think I've characterized the report as such. ObtuseAngle 17:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It looks good. You provided a reliable source and you made it clear that it is just alegations at the moment. TJ Spyke 23:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

All Japan Pro Wrestling
I have this link to my source that says Angel will be working AJPW (http://www.gerweck.net/news/1173886298.shtml) but I don't understand how to use the citing method. Sorry, I'm new to editing this. Shockthemonkey 04:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Until he works the match for AJPW, we can't add it to the article. Announced matches that have not yet occurred are not added to articles per Wikipedia's pro wrestling project's policies and style guide. After he works the match for AJPW, then we can add it. Meanwhile, I will add a big welcome template to your personal talk page which should help you in becoming more familiar with the Wikipedia project as a whole. Cheers, B mg 9 1 6  Speak to Me 04:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

EDIT REQUEST: 2006 Fighting Spirit Awards
Please could somebody update this entry to reflect Awards Angle has won from Fighting Spirit magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Spirit_magazine):
 * Story of The Year
 * Match of The Year: Kurt Angle VS The Undertaker (No Way Out 2006)
 * David Bowie Award
 * Brian Pillman Award
 * Kriss Kross Award —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Escrima (talk • contribs) 14:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Can you explain why that magazine is notable enough to include its awards? TJ Spyke 23:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)