Talk:Kylie Platt/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Axl (talk • contribs • count ) 20:13, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

This article has been at WP:GAN for ages! Okay, I'll review it. Axl ¤  [Talk]  20:13, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I do not watch Coronation Street and I had no idea who Kylie Turner was until I saw this article. Axl ¤  [Talk]  20:17, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

From the lead section, paragraph 3: "It was a change in direction for the character, when money was not enough for her to leave "someone she loves"." The latter part of the sentence is a little awkward. How about "It was a change in direction for the character, with the lure of money insufficient for her to leave "someone she loves"."? Axl ¤  [Talk]  20:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)✅

From the lead section, paragraph 4: "Outlets such as Orange U.K. and the Daily Mirror have favoured her fights with Becky and Tina." What does "favoured" mean in this context? Axl ¤  [Talk]  20:41, 15 September 2011 (UTC)✅

From the lead section, paragraph 4: "However Jaci Stephen of the Daily Mail has criticised Kylie for her deceit and branded some of her material as "dull"." I don't think that Jaci Stephen is important enough to mention her by name. Axl ¤  [Talk]  20:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)✅

From "Introduction and selling Max", paragraph 1: "Kelly described Kylie and Becky as having a love-hate relationship, but at the time she "wants to kill her"." Who wants to kill whom? Axl ¤  [Talk]  21:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)✅

From "Introduction and selling Max", paragraph 1: "Lane herself stated that Kylie loves her sister but "feels resentful that she left home when she was only eight."" Who left home when who was eight? Axl ¤  [Talk]  22:07, 15 September 2011 (UTC)✅
 * I changed the corrected the sentence, I removed the part about Orange "favouring" her fights, as I didn't feel it was notable enough for the lead section. Removed the mention of Jaci Stephen and explained whether it was Kylie or Becky in the places you mentioned. Rain the One  BAM 23:08, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Raintheone, thanks for your fixes. Axl ¤  [Talk]  22:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

From "Introduction and selling Max", paragraph 2: "Steve decides not to say anything to Becky because he thinks he doesn't trust her." I'm not sure what this means. Axl ¤  [Talk]  22:30, 18 September 2011 (UTC)✅
 * Changed to "Steve decides not to say anything to Becky because he doesn't trust Kylie and knows that she will take Max away from Becky." Rain the One  BAM 23:28, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

From "Marriage to David Platt", paragraph 2: "Though stressed: "bearing in mind how possessive Gail is of David, it doesn't bode well for the future." " I'm not sure what this sentence means. Axl ¤  [Talk]  21:05, 19 September 2011 (UTC)✅
 * I've reworded that bit. Paula Lane basically said that Kylie is not the "model" daughter in law for Gail, but pointed light to the fact Gail has always been possesive of David - so ultimately no one is good enough for her son. Rain the One  BAM 23:28, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

The "Storylines" section is lacking in references. I see that similar GAs such as "Becky McDonald" and "Danielle Jones (EastEnders)" also have "Storylines" sections that lack references. Why is this? Is this a deliberate guideline from WikiProject Soap Operas? Axl ¤  [Talk]  21:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Storyline sections are not strictly required to need sourcing per MOS:TV, when the show itself acts as the source. Rain the One  BAM 23:28, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose that you refer to this statement from MOS:TV: "Plot summaries do not normally require citations; the television show itself is the source, as the accuracy of the plot description can be verified by watching the episode in question." I am unconvinced that the statement is relevant to this article. The guideline begins "The following is a style guide for those who edit Television-related articles under Wikipedia:WikiProject Television." WikiProject Television deals "with the Television medium and television series or other forms of episodic programs." This article is not tagged for WikiProject Television. It is not about a television programme, episode or series. Therefore I don't think that it falls under the remit of WikiProject Television.


 * Moreover, the justification "the plot description can be verified by watching the episode in question" surely cannot be applied to this article. No episode is referenced. How would I know which episode to watch? Am I supposed to watch the whole series? Axl  ¤  [Talk]  10:07, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I have drawn this matter to the WikiProject's attention. Axl  ¤  [Talk]  10:41, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That projects covers characters too - Kylie is a character on TV. It still is a plot section. You'd have to watch the whole series to verify the plot section in an article about a TV series. Hmmm, Is this going to effect your the GAR? Rain the One  BAM 16:19, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's see what WP:WikiProject Soap Operas says. Axl  ¤  [Talk]  16:52, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Also of note, I found the following guidance: "The article should not be used for a collection of storyline trivia about the character. As a rule of thumb, only those events which were significant enough to have been written about in third-party sources should be included. Remember that we are here to create an encyclopedia, not to provide a comprehensive guide to soap opera storylines." Axl  ¤  [Talk]  22:03, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That is why it is a small run through - the storylines there have been covered by sources. I do not understand why you have quoted that, when it is a small summary for one years worth of episodes.


 * Kylie is on-screen most of the time - Just the other day she went for a few drinks at her local, got blind drunk, chatted a few men up. Gail became annoyed with Kylie because she was flirting with men while David was away doing a training course. Kylie and Gail argue, Gail locks Kylie out of her house, Kylie gets drunk and stays at the rovers. Steve is annoyed because Kylie stayed over and orders her to leave. She asks Gail if she can go back into her home but she says no - Kylie has an arguement with Gail - Kylie insults Gail so much that Audrey defends her daughter by sacking Kylie. Kylie begs for her job back but Audrey will not listen. Kylie and Eva go out into town for a few drinks to drown their sorrows. Kylie spots Audrey out with her boyfriend Marc. Though they are both shocked to discover he is dressed as his alter ego Marcia. Kylie takes a picture on her mobile phone. The next days Steve finds Kylie at the rovers again and throws her out. Kylie blackmails Marc and Audrey, she asks for her job back or she will tell everyone Marc is a drag queen. Audrey tries to stop Kylie, though Marc does not like being forced into a corner and arrives at the pub dressed as Marcia, wuining Kylie's plan to regain her job. Kylie recieves a call from the social services telling her want to meet her and discuss the possibility of getting her son back. Kylie asks Gail if she can go into the house and get herself together and prepare for the meeting. Gail refuses which results in an arguement in the street. Kylie goes into the bistro and steals Nick's house keys. Eva informs Gail of this, when she tries to get into her house she finds Kylie has bolted the door and refuses to let her in. Gail threatens to call the police. Kylie throws a pot of water out of the window, which lands on David who as returned home early. David pleads with Kylie to let him in. She argues with him for forgetting her birthday and he lies to her claiming he sent some flowers. When she lets David in he talks to her and convinces her that they will get Max back. When Gail returns home she refuses to speak to Kylie. This forces David to reveal that he wants Kylie to move away with him to a new haridressing job he has been offered...


 * That is three episodes with Kylie in them. So I wouldn't call what is there a comprehensive storyline guide - rather a tight summary of what is notable. Rain the One  BAM 22:45, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

From "Storylines", paragraph 1: "Kylie is awarded custody of her son. Later she steals money from the till at Roy's Rolls, and jets off to Cyprus on holiday but returns a couple of weeks later with a new boyfriend, Demetri. She tells Becky that she has come back to take Max to live in Cyprus, leaving Becky heartbroken." When Kylie went to Cyprus, did she leave Max with Becky? Axl ¤  [Talk]  17:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC) ✅

From "Storylines", paragraph 2: "Max goes missing on the day of the tram crash." "The tram crash" is introduced as if it is a specific event that the reader should know about. It seems that a tram crashed and Max went missing on the same day. Axl ¤  [Talk]  18:05, 20 September 2011 (UTC) ✅

I'm going to skip the "Storylines" section for the time being, until I have WikiProject Soap Operas' consensus view. Axl ¤  [Talk]  22:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

From "Reception", paragraph 1: "Tony Stewart of the same publication said that the Kylie and David pairing was brilliant." Did Stewart actually use the word "brilliant"? If so, it should be in inverted commas. If not, it should be replaced with the description that he actually used, in inverted commas. Axl ¤  [Talk]  22:42, 20 September 2011 (UTC) ✅


 * Stewart did say brilliant, so that is fixed. I've added that Kylie left Max in Becky's care before she travelled to Cyprus. The tram crash thing was totally my fault. The serial's tram crash was a heavily publicised storyline - not that the article about it on WP reflects that. So I guess with it always being refered to as "the tram crash", I made the same mistake. I rewrote that line so it is in universe: "Max goes missing when a tram crashes into Coronation Street". Rain the One  BAM 23:08, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

From "Reception", paragraph 1: "When Tina and Graeme asked Kylie to keep their secret...". What secret? Axl ¤  [Talk]  23:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC) ✅

Hey Axl. What is the next step of the review. I'm not sure if you are busy atm or not. Rain the One  BAM 00:30, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have asked for an adjustment to the WikiProject's guidance in line with the consensus on the talk page. Axl  ¤  [Talk]  18:42, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Summary
Following my concern regarding the lack of sourcing for the "Storylines" section, I reviewed the guidance at WikiProject Soap Operas and invited them to comment. I also invited WikiProject Television to comment, because their guidance was quoted: "Plot summaries do not normally require citations; the television show itself is the source, as the accuracy of the plot description can be verified by watching the episode in question."

WikiProject Soap Operas used this statement in MOSTV to justify the absence of references in their fictional character articles. In my opinion, this guidance applies specifically to episode articles (or lists of episodes) where the individual episode is named.

I invited the WikiProject to add an explicit statement regarding their consensus to their guideline. After several days of silence, Raintheone added a statement:-

"As agreed by wikiproject participants, storyline sections do not require sourcing, as the programme itself acts as the source. These sections can be verified by watching the series."

In my opinion, it is implausible to suggest that information should be verified by watching hundreds of hours of a television series. This statement directly conflicts with verifiability. Nevertheless, this is the justification from WikiProject Soap Operas. Indeed there are several WikiProject Soap Operas fictional character GAs with a similar approach to referencing.

"Kylie Turner" technically meets the WikiProject Soap Operas guideline. Therefore I am reluctantly awarding GA status.

I am not a member of WikiProject Soap Operas and I have no particular interest in Coronation Street or soap operas in general. I took on this GA review because "Kylie Turner" had been waiting at GAN for a long time. (I believe that it was the oldest unreviewed nomination at the time.) It is unfortunate that WikiProject Soap Operas' consensus conflicts with my understanding of WP:V. I shall not review a WikiProject Soap Operas article again.

For completion, I'll list the individual GA criteria:-


 * 1) The article is fairly well written. The "Storylines" could use some more copy-editing to help the stories flow a little better.
 * 2) The majority of the article is referenced with reliable sources. This follows WikiProject Soap Operas' guideline (with the caveat noted above).
 * 3) Kylie Turner is described well, giving appropriate weight to different aspects of her character.
 * 4) The article is neutral.
 * 5) The article is stable, without any edit war.
 * 6) The image in the infobox is a non-free picture with an appropriate fair-use rationale.

Axl ¤  [Talk]  20:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)