Talk:Kzin/Archive 1

Untitled
How many edits in the StarTrek Animated series do we need?

Give it up already!

BigFatDave 22:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Didn't Earh already have contact with the Jinxian Bandersnatches at the time they met the Kzin, as noted in World of Ptavvs (which takes place well before the first Kzinti meeting). A better phrasing might be "first ongoing contact with space faring aliens". (There were the contacts with the Slavers and the Pak prior to this, but they were not "ongoing") Lizard sf 03:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

In "World of Ptavvs" the Bandersnatch were known of, but two-way communication was not established at that time. I suppose it depends on your definition of contact.Noclevername 02:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Initial Contact with Humans
On pages 22-26 of "The Man-Kzin Wars" (ISBN 0-671-65411-X), there are several mentions of the "weapon" being used being a drive, not a comm laser. Specifically, page 22: "A twist of a large white knob turned the drive on full... He turned to the rear-view telescope. It was aimed at the solar system, for the drive could be used for messages at this distance. He set it for short range and began to turn the ship."

Also, page 23: "'They're trying to get away,' the Captain said, as the glowing end swung towards them. 'Are you sure they can't?'...'What would happen if the light hit our ship?'"

Page 25: "'...you turned off the drive as soon as you'd burned through the ship.'"

I'm going to change "However, one of the humans used the ship's powerful communications laser as a weapon and destroyed the Kzin ship" to "However, one of the humans used the ship's powerful drive system (which doubled as a communications laser) as a weapon and destroyed the Kzin ship"

If anyone feels this edit in error, please discuss.

Tureyhall 00:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Cover Art
Has there ever been book cover art that correctly depicts a Kzin? Several I've seen have them with standard issue terrestrial cat ears. On ALL of the covers I've seen, they're shown with five fingers! Kzinti have four fingers (or three fingers and one thumb, for the pedantic types among us humans). A cover for 'Cathouse' came the closest with ratlike tails and bat-wing ears, but still five fingers.


 * The cover of Man-Kzin Wars XI hardback comes pretty close with its depiction of Vaemar, and it has four fingers. Not sure about the ears, though, and I'm pretty sure the tail is more lion like than rat like. I'll have to check. Interesting, though. I'll go through my books. Phædrus 23:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Here's a picture of the MKW XI cover: http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/t1/t5677.jpg
 * The hands are right, and I think the tail is pretty close, but it's hard to tell with the ears - they're folded back. However, I think this is the closest representation there is, so I say go with this one. Phædrus 23:18, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The legs aren't right, the feet are extended digitigrade style, stuck onto plantigrade type legs.


 * The "Cathouse" (novel combining Dean Ing's MKW stories "Cathouse" and "Briar Patch") shows the Kzin with four fingers. The ear bones still are unjointed, which I've only seen in the illustrations in "Barlowe's Guide to Extra-Terrestrials". Kzinti ears fold back in agression or submission and can also curl up (like a webbed hand) for protection, if I recall correctly what I've read in Niven's writings.


 * And on the subject of fingers, the article says five toes, is there any citation for that? I'm sure that they were listed as tetradactyl in one of the man/kzin wars books?
 * chrisboote 09:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * OK; a year with no citation, I'm removing the five toed reference
 * chrisboote (talk) 16:16, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Cover art? Not exactly. How about inside the cover art? The late 70's paperback editions of Ringworld and other Niven stories had illustrations of niven characters. perhaps one can be found? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.30.13 (talk) 20:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw one once, but I can't recall the name of the book or find it online. It was a novel-length expansion of one of the Man Kzin Wars stories, I think it was by Poul Anderson but I'm not 100% sure - I don't think it's A Darker Geometry, I think it was based on the one with the sentient ship that was used to fight the Kzin but, again, I'm unsure.  Anyway, this had a full-length picture of a Kzin that had an elongated body shape that was more weasel-like than feline, had the bare tail, fan-like ears, and black bare skin on the hands.  It was the best depiction of a Kzin I had ever seen, it looked very alien and only vaguely cat-like.  I wish I could remember the name of the book, I'd find a link then. I am so sick of kzin picturs that are just tigers or lions with guns, I'm sure Larry Niven never wanted his creation to be used to pander to furry perverts.  12.40.5.69 (talk) 23:16, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Another related item is their skeletal structure. There's a black and white drawing of a Kzin skelton with the correct number of fingers and jointed ear bones. I don't recall if it has the legs right. IIRC Niven described them as having ribs all the way down to their pelvis, but that drawing shows a sort of basket weave arrangement of bones. An interesting concept but it's not Kzinti.

Wing Commander
Any relation to the cat-like aliens in Wing Commander? Drutt 13:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Man-Kzin Wars
Would anyone else support splitting the MKW stuff into its own article? Kuralyov 02:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Paul Chafe's Destiny's Forge
A chapter gives a description of the Kzinti's niche in the food chain and of the evolutionary stresses that placed them there. RahadyanS 13:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Kzin Tech-Level at First Contact
In one of the Man-Kzin Wars short stories, where the Kzin make first contact with the Jotok, it is mentioned that the civilized Kzin have aircraft (the Kzin that the Jotoki contact are more primitive barbarians). This article says that they were at a medieval tech level but I don't think that fits in with their having aircraft. 12.40.5.69 (talk) 18:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Licensing & History
Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that: Niven wrote the "Slaver Weapon" first in the 60s, then it was used in the 70s by ST:TAS. When Larry Cole invented SFB in the 70s, he needed a new enemy for the Klingons. The Klingon D-7 blueprints that existed at that time showed all phasers capable of firing AFT and Cole decided to make his Kzinti analogous to the Japanese navy of WWII, heavy on carriers and fighters. The SFB license to use the "Kzinti" concept ends there. Thus the misspellings, introduction of the Lyrans, and name change to Mirak in SFB computer games. Official Star Trek productions are also not licensed to use Kzinti thus Tzenkethi in DS9. Niven mentioned in an article writen in the late 90s (yes I wish I had it to quote for you) how he had to sue to defend his intellectual property, namely the Ringworld environment. Perhaps someone has the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.30.13 (talk) 21:04, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Other iterations
Should there be any mention of the apparent similarities between Kzinti and Togorians,like in a trivia subheading or some such? Sochwa (talk) 18:48, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

There might be some point to a mention of Kzin, which are quite a bit more notable, under Togorians - but you really should have some rationale or notable source to do that. Maybe there's an article on catpeople? There's not really a reason to list Togorians here, since there is no notable relation, since catpeople are quite a widespread notion, and because the StarWars universe is simply chock full of not very well developed animal/people. Kja er (talk) 04:12, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point,duly noted Sochwa (talk) 18:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Kzinti as reactionary models
Is there an identifiable, citable link between the heroic Kzinti and their lop-sided gender roles and Larry Niven's reactionary personal politics? He's not Heinlein, but there's some heavy hinting going on in the Kzinti ideals and social structure. Centrepull (talk) 06:52, 20 October 2009 (UTC)


 * A bit samurai, aren't they? Student7 (talk) 15:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)