Talk:Léon: The Professional/Archive 1

Cut what?
The article doesn't even attempt to explain what scenes have been removed from the US release.

Having watched the movie only on German television (which means anything hyperviolent is probably cut anyway) I can't remember anything that may have been too "sensitive" for Americans. Could someone who knows both versions fill in the blanks? -- Ashmodai 23:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I know that the scene where Mathilda puts on the pink dress that Leon bought for her, and talks to him about wanting her "first time" to be special is not in the US version. Test audiences were very uncomfortable and giggled nervously when she was speaking. I think the Russian roulette scene is deleted, as well as the scene with Mathilda and Leon sleeping in the same bed. Joyous | Talk 00:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The German TV version only cut one scene (where Mathilda tells Leon she's 18). There's a comparison between the theatrical cut and the director's cut, listing every cut scene with screenshots, here (in German). --Fritz S. (Talk) 10:33, 24 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. &mdash;Ashmodai 21:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)


 * There is also the scenes where Leon takes Mathilda on jobs with him, teaching her his trade. Jimcripps 04:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The Professional Part Two
I've heard that there was a movie made after the professional that documents mathilda's life after leon. Just wondering if anyone knows what this movie is called, or if it even really exists. Leo Collin 03:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There have been numerous rumours that Besson was planning on doing "Mathilda: The Professional 2", there has been someone on www.natalieportman.com who said he had been talking to Besson and he said there might be something.. Portman once or twice said that she would be happy to do anything with Luc, so there are some clues. You might want to check google for site:http://www.natalieportman.com "the professional 2" -- 5amsara 08:53, Mar 18 2006 (CET)


 * In one of the special features on the deluxe version, Natalie explicitly states that she would love to work with Luc at any time in the future, a sequel to Léon included. Counterfit 05:26, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Any timeline? Chris 08:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Removed line in extended version section
I removed the following, "while she is never shown actually pulling the trigger of a real gun, she is obviously at least an accessory to several murders". I've seen the extended version, or at least what's called the Deluxe version, and in it Mathilda definitely is shown shooting a guy, twice, during one of Leon's jobs. Perhaps there are multiple extended versions of the movie, and this is only in one of them? --Xyzzyplugh 10:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you referring to the job where she burns all the drugs with alcohol? Because if so, that's a paintball gun she's using, and not a real gun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeonite (talk • contribs)
 * Hey, you might be right, that might have been a paintball gun. --Xyzzyplugh 14:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Seconds later, after telling Mathilda to aim for the lungs, Leon finishes the guy off with a real handgun haha.D Boland 23:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

It should also be noted that she does fire a real gun, randomly out a window to try and convince Leon that she has no problems hurting people (potentially). D Boland 02:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Type of sunglasses
Does anyone know the type of sunglasses Leon wears throughout the film? 68.228.230.24 05:46, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler Warning
Hey I noticed that the spoiler warning here is in the plot. After looking at Spoiler_warning and WikiProject Film/Style guidelines I'm going to remove it from that section. If you have any objections reply below or let me know on my talk page. Thanks! Jussen 22:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

parodies and remakes
In the "parodies and remakes" section, is there a source to confirm that Noiris actually based on Léon? In this description, and the one on Noir's page, I don't see much of a connection. Joyous! | Talk 01:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems to me as though that's an entirely unsourced statement. I'm going to look over both articles again, and might remove it. If someone wants to revert that, at least cite a source. Good eye, Joyous. -- Digital Watches  !  03:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed a lot of the entries from this section again. People seem to be confusing "parodies and homages" with "similarities." Joyous! | Talk 13:27, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Reception
Seems a little unfair that the reception section gives so much detail of Siskel and Eberts criticisms, whilst barely mentioning the largely positive reviews this film has received. Particularly the mention of "poorly choreographed action scenes", which is not a widely held POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Choje (talk • contribs) 07:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

yet the ESU issue
[q]One day, as Mathilda returns home from grocery shopping, a NYPD ESU (Emergency Service Unit) team, sent by...[/q]

I don't think the first wave of the police's special force was an ESU team. It could be an armed task force from Stansfield's section which belonged to DEA. I think ESU didn't make a move until Stansfield yelled at his guy EVERYONEEEEEEE.--Mato Rei (talk) 08:32, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Nationality of the film
I think that Leon (the professional) is a French film as it was produced by Gaumont, a French-owned company. Plus the director, producer and all technical staff were French. True, it was filmed in NYC in English but nonetheless it is French. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.197.8.139 (talk) 16:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Right. It's a French hollywood movie, nuff said.--Mato Rei (talk) 09:17, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

North American release of International cut
The international cut was released in North America, or at least in Canada, way before 2005 as stated in the article. There is a two disc "deluxe edition" that was released in 2005, but I've had a one disc edition of the international cut since at least 2002, and it's not a bootleg or import. Does anyone else have a firm date for the original release? --ThisIsMyUsername 14:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I've corrected this and added some more detail on the various releases of the Version Longue/Version Intégrale/International Version. 2000 is correct for the Region 1 DVD. I picked up the French (SECAM) VHS while on holiday there in 1999, but there's nothing on it to indicate when it was released (will check if I can upload the cover, which is different from the DVD).Nick Cooper 18:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The original script had Leon and Mathilda actually having sex. Portman's parents refused this, but Portman asked the script to be edited so that she could be in it. Here is a wesite that has the original script http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Picture/2648/index.html. None of the productions included that scene, but I thought it was worth mentioning. - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Grace 9008 (talk • contribs) 02:21, 22 September 2006 (UTC).

in my opinion the unreleased 150 minute version should be mentioned in the article... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.115.45.37 (talk) 20:10, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Lighter Fluid?
"After he kills the dealer Mathilda burns all the drugs using lighter fluid." Looked like rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) to me...

Basesurge (talk) 09:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Should This Be Included?
I cannot, off hand, remember where I read this bit of information, but I wonder if it would be appropriate to include in this article. Luc Besson had The Fifth Element green-lighted several years before it actually went into production. For some reason, which at present eludes me, the project was shut down just before pre-production was to begin - I think because of a similar sci-fi space adventure film which was scheduled to be or had been released at that time. Besson then wrote Leon out of anger and frustration, got that project green-lighted and produced, and its subsequent success enabled Besson to finally bring The Fifth Element to theaters. Now, obviously I need to find verifiable sources before adding this information to this page - And I do not intend to do so until I'm able to track those sources down - but I was curious to know how appropriate you all would feel this information is with regard to this article. Thoughts?Kp.murphy (talk) 16:52, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can add sources, this would be valuable information to the production. Cheers. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:13, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect information.
Leon was a french national taken in by an Italian, though he worked for an Italian he was french. This as far as I can tell so I won't edit the page at the moment though I am sure it is incorrect at the moment.
 * There is nothing in the film to suggest that. — Chameleon 03:47, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

In the film Gary Oldman refers to Leon as "an Italian" to Danny Aiello when he is interrogating him. Its obvious by the accent Leon is French, it is also inferred heavily that Aiello had somehow "raised" Leon, as at the end he makes the same 'deal' with Mathilda. TruthCrusader 16:17, 26 December 2005 (UTC)TruthCrusader

The article claims that Jean Reno's accent is taken on because the director is french. This seems pretty ridiculous to me. It's obviously because the actor is french. I checked the reference given in the article, and found nothing to its effect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.12.196.103 (talk • contribs) 4:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC).


 * I think the 'accent' is referring to the accent over the letter e in his name, Léon. Ashmoo 04:50, 28 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Haha, you're right, man, you're right! Leon "real name" is LEONE MONTANA. So, I think he's italian despite the actor's natural french accent. --200.216.236.74 (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

I think the fact that Jean Reno speaks with a French accent says nothing at all about his character in the film (which is supposed to be Italian). Kevin Costner spoke with an American accent through most of Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves but that doesn't mean that Robin Hood was supposed to be American. Aeonite 09:22, 30 November 2006 (PT)

Why is no reference to the film Gloria (1980) made?
Leon is basically just a remake of Gloria (1980), except genders are flipped: hitwoman (Gena Rowlands) takes in the neighbors boy as they are murdered down the hall.

Even if the film wasn't intended to be a remake, it is clearly inspired by Gloria and reuses scenes from it. Are there no references on the net to corroborate this?

Here is the IDMB link http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080798/

Here is the wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria

Here is the film: http://search.crackle.com/v/28209738/gloria-1980.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.169.138 (talk) 11:55, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

133-minute version versus 136-minute version? Also, "director's cut" a misnomer
I'd like a clarification on two of the three versions of Léon listed in the article (director's cut and the international version) with supposedly three minutes of variation in the running time. This seems suspect as I've never seen a version that isn't either the regular or the version longue, and neither have my French associates.

Additionally, referring to anything as the director's cut of Léon is dubious as per Luc Besson's comment on the situation - to him the regular version is the director's cut, and he IS the director. --- ( 212.50.133.129 (talk) 19:08, 7 February 2011 (UTC) )

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was move. The proposed title appears to be as common or more common than the alternatives, and is preferable to titles requiring parenthetical disambiguation per WP:PRECISION.Cúchullain t/ c 17:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Léon (film) → Léon: The Professional – Léon: The Professional is the US, Aus, New Zealand and Canada title. That's the vast majority of the English-speaking world. UK title is "Leon" (minority). The original US title was "The Professional" but was renamed to Léon: The Professional for all subsequent releases. Remember that the most-used title is what matters for Wikipedia titles, even if that is different from the original theatrical title, which in this case it is. Film Fan (talk) 10:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC) NOTE: The three "oppose" votes do not even attempt to refute my claim that Léon: The Professional is the most used title in English-speaking countries. Why should a vote be counted from someone who is flat-out ignoring the facts? Film Fan (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * So you are seeking to disenfranchise those who disagree with you? Classy. Nick Cooper (talk) 18:28, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename- To The Professional (1994 film) (over current redirect); a) original U.S. title, and I think, when it reached notability b) majority of sources c) non-foreign language film d) no consistency between Léon, Léon: The Professional, and Léon (The Professional) by remaining sources. Dru of Id (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The currently most-used title in English-speaking countries is what counts for Wikipedia titles (WP:COMMONNAME), NOT its original theatrical title, which gets mentioned in the first paragraph if different to the current consensus title. Film Fan (talk) 17:45, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * There is not a single word in that section or on that page which states or implies that the article is named by how a film is currently marketed or released. 'The most common name for a subject, as determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources, is often used  as a title because it is recognizable and natural.' The majority of the sources use The Professional. Those that do not are consistent. Dru of Id (talk) 03:52, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The most common name is usually determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources, yes. But there are so many exceptions, including: Seven Samurai, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope and Bicycle Thieves. Consensus can change WP:CCC. Also, "The Professional" was the original US title, but English Wikipedia is for all major English-speaking countries, and the most commonly used title in this century is Léon: The Professional. Film Fan (talk) 11:59, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Foreign language film, film that retronym'ed due to non-sequential film/release, foreign language film. Had an 8 hour layover in Shannon. Once. The sources available are available in this century, too, and haven't changed. Dru of Id (talk) 12:27, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no idea what you're smoking, but sources from the 90s are outdated. WP:CCC. Identifying_reliable_sources Film Fan (talk) 13:15, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Léon is the title in the country of orgin, but does not count as "foreign language" in the usual sense under which we would use an "English-language" title. Nick Cooper (talk) 21:29, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The most-used title in English-speaking countries is what counts for Wikipedia titles. See WP:COMMONNAME. Whether or not it's foreign is irrelevant. Film Fan (talk) 22:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
 * FIlm titles are determined by Naming conventions (films), which says no such thing. It is, in any case, cultural fascism to impose secondary market titles over those used in the country of orgin. Or do you think people are too thick to understand what's happened when they're redirected to something under its proper orginal title? Nick Cooper (talk) 09:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What I think about people's intelligence doesn't matter. The fact is that "Léon: The Professional" is the most used title at this time in English-speaking countries. Most films become more widely known by the title that they are released under on home video, especially when it's several years since the original theatrical release. The language of the film is irrelevant. Where is the guideline that says English language films should be named by the title of country of origin? Nowhere. Using the title most used in the English-speaking applies to EVERY article on Wikipedia -- not just foreign-language films. See WP:EN and WP:CCC for more. Film Fan (talk) 11:59, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. Either Léon: The Professional or The Professional. is fine by me. The Professional (film) is an obscure Serbian movie. There is no need to disambiguate. I don't see anyone giving the title as simply Léon in English. Kauffner (talk) 07:11, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose The article should stay at Léon (film). It had an English-speaking release (in the UK) so is incorrect to assume Léon: The Professional or The Professional (1994 film) is 'English-language' name. Zarcadia (talk) 11:46, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We are looking for the title most used in English-speaking countries. UK = Leon. USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand is a big majority over UK. I have a strong feeling the "oppose" votes are coming from UK users who would rather the title was listed under their name, rather than taking the guidelines into consideration. Film Fan (talk) 12:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Léon is the original tittle in at least one English speaking country and it is also the tittle used in most other countries.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigar (talk • contribs) 22:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * ENGLISH-SPEAKING countries is what matters, and Léon: The Professional is the title in every English-speaking country apart from the UK. This is just another vote from a UK user who is stating their personal geographic preference, rather than even considering the guidelines. Plus your comment is untrue. "Léon" is NOT the title used in most other countries. Film Fan (talk) 10:32, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, I am not from the UK, far from it. Not sure why you would think that. To me this movie has always been Léon.  It is the name given by the director to an English speaking movie, not just for the UK market but also for most other (if not all) European countries. That it was renamed in the US by marketing people makes really no difference to the fact the name of the movie is Leon. I have just checked my Region 1 DVD and played the movie to see how it was called in the titles.  You will probably be surprised to know it is just "Leon", nothing more. Bigar (talk) 22:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - Petty jabs at other users, suggesting that they are fascist Britons, doesn't adhere to WP:CIVIL. The emerging consensus is that the page should not be moved, and you should be adult about this. Just another guy in a suit (talk) 11:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We are not yet halfway through the week. And I am being perfectly civil and honest, thank you very much. I never called anyone fascist. The fact is that the three oppose votes come from Brits, with their reason being that the UK title is "Leon" -- blatantly ignoring the fact that all the other English-speaking countries call the film Léon: The Professional. By the way, I have nothing against Brits. I am one myself. Film Fan (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't say you directly called anyone fascist, but you are suggesting it by claiming that those who oppose the move are simply UK users who want the article title to reflect the name of the film in their country. Just another guy in a suit (talk) 13:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Jsigned/Film Fan/whatever you're calling yourself, presumably you are including me in the "three Brits" but it is mis-leading for you to suggest we have all given the same reason you claim, when in fact I have not. Nick Cooper (talk) 18:25, 17 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. The film was released as Léon in a minority of the English-speaking world. It was originally known in the United States as The Professional, and in Australia and New Zealand as Léon: The Professional; it has been marketed as Léon: The Professional in the US since 2000. I would suggest a move to Léon: The Professional as per WP:EN; those who know the film as Léon or The Professional can happen upon the article quite easily. Just another guy in a suit (talk) 16:40, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support per the naming conventions and English usage, and also by WP:PRECISION, which indicates a natural (not needed parentheses) qualifier is preferred to parenthetical disambiguation, so Léon: The Professional is preferable to Léon (film). I do not think just "The Professional" is a good title for this film now, since it is not current. (I would support a change in the primary topic of The Professional to this film, wherever it is located, by redirecting as the primary topic with a hatnote to the Serbian film and to the dab page The Professionals.) -- JHunterJ (talk) 15:16, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Hey, why don't we just pretend that this film has no connection with its actual country of origin, eh?
First the title, now the poster. I'm surprised nobody's removed the French Project banner.... Nick Cooper (talk) 13:35, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The title used in English-speaking countries is the correct title to use, and there is no rule that states the poster must be from the country of origin. I don't see the problem. It is mentioned in the first sentence that it's a French film. This is not French Wikipedia. Film Fan (talk) 13:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


 * There is no rule that says otherwise, either. It is also seems pointless to change an image that has stood without issue for a year and a half. Nick Cooper (talk) 15:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


 * ...as if a 18 months was a long time... Film Fan (talk) 16:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Extra titles
Stop adding the several titles for this film. We don't know the context of them so it doesn't suggest their notability. And the citations placed fail WP:NOTABILITY and do not give any explanation on how they are used as alternative titles. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:06, 21 July 2012 (UTC)