Talk:Léon Degrelle

Comment
Hi,

I've previously read the french wiki of Degrelle, and I've seen he didn't continue its studies after the two first years and didn't obtain a BA. More, I have nowhere seen that he had a doctorate in law, even if he began a cursus in law.

I think you have to verify this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.189.67.117 (talk) 07:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Note: In reference to the phrase "...Degrelle was excommunicated, but the excommunication was later lifted, after Degrelle's confession, by the Catholic chaplain of the Walloon Assault Brigade": There are several online refenences to Degrelle's excommunication (see the Catholic Herald Archives for Oct 1 1943 at http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/article/1st-october-1943/1/degrelle-excommunicated and the Google archive for the Milwaukee Journal newpaer of Nov 12, 1943 at http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19431112&id=y6kWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BiMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3405,4999489) but I have a hard time understanding how a lowly Catholic battalion chaplain can overwrite the actions of a Bishop. - R Fitzgibbon — Preceding unsigned comment added by RFitzgibbon (talk • contribs) 23:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I looked it up, and it seems that the excommunication was lifted later, but not by a chaplain, as RFitzgibbon has correctly pointed out. Changing the article now accordingly. Bazuz (talk) 12:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi BazuzHe never got a degree, I added this and gave a source (sadly it is in Dutch)Garnhami (talk) 22:03, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Recent edit
Mostly decrufting -- preserving here by providing this link; please see individual edit summaries in the article's history. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:49, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

My edits
I've removed a chunk of material that appeared to have its origin in a hagiographical piece on the Holocaust-denial website Institute for Historical Review. Such a website can never be used as a reliable source for this article. I've also added some "citation needed" tags, and removed the over-prominent quotation from his "open letter" to the pope. We can say that he wrote such a letter, but there is no need to quote prominently from it. DuncanHill (talk) 15:56, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree. Jayjg (talk) 18:32, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * "Such a website can never be used as a reliable source for this article." Odd.  That's the way many people view Wikipedia.  Except maybe students looking to crank out their papers due the next day and hoping their teachers don't check the source.


 * Were you referring to sources used at the IHR site, or are you talking about their spin in their articles? I can understand not allowing their editorialized content used as a source here, but I do believe they source their articles, and if those are academically acceptable, shouldn't they be used?  For example, I just went to their site and they linked to a Times of Israel story.  Would the Times of Israel story be acceptable as a source for some encyclopedic entry, or would it not be acceptable since IHR included it?


 * I had an edit removed once here for an incident involving the FBI. The source was the FBI.  I was informed that the FBI isn't a reliable source.  Because the editor didn't agree with the content politically. RRskaReb  talk 23:12, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That seems to be the general modus operandi. If they don't agree with a web sites editors or statements in an article, it becomes an 'unreliable source' ... Meanwhile all kinds of political parties, their pressure groups as well as academic avtivists become 'reliable sources'... Their statements and conclusions just have to have some special slant. 105.9.109.204 (talk) 14:29, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:38, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Leon degrelle.jpg

Proposal to change to British English
Because of the historical link and geographic distance between Great Britain and Belgium, and prior experience with Belgium articles, I think we should adopt British English and convert what's there now into that dialect. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  06:18, 18 September 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't think that there's a strong connection to a local version of english here: the article does not currently mention the UK at all. It does already use dmy dates consistently, but I think it should use the established spelling . I use US spelling and dmy dates for most of my articles because that's what I like but have no objection to British spelling either. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  06:22, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Hitler's statement to Degrelle
This ABC news article states: "«Si tuviese un hijo, me gustaría que fuese como usted», le dijo Adolf Hitler a León Degrelle en agosto de 1944, durante la entrega de la Cruz de Caballero con Hojas de Roble –Ritterkreutz–, un distintivo militar único en el III Reich." ABC is very reliable as a news outlet but it doesn't state where this claim comes from or what the support is besides Degrelle's own claim. Can we confirm this? (t &#183; c)  buidhe  19:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I myself cannot substantiate this with any *legitimate* sources. Degrelle, however, wrote about it and was quoted about it in this article until two days ago. IIRC Hitler is also supposed to have said pretty much the same thing to Hartmann and Rudel, which hardens my stance even further against even including it. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  21:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Image review
Now that the article has gone to GAN, I'm checking the licensing of the images.
 * File:Léon Degrelle portrait.jpg may well be PD in Poland, but there's no indication that Poland is the source country of the image. Other likely possibilities (Belgium, Germany) have stricter copyright laws for photographs.
 * File:Propaganda from Waffen-SS. SS-Division blindee "Wallonie" leader Leon Degrelle.jpg unlikely to be PD-US
 * File:Léon Degrelle à Charleroi - 02.jpg no publication at least 70 years ago is listed. Even if it was published that long ago, it wouldn't be PD-US. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  20:05, 23 September 2021 (UTC)


 * just a heads up in case you missed this, it does have to be solved for the GAN to pass. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  08:39, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the ping. If the Charleroi picture isn't kosher, would that mean the San Sebastian picture is also no good? – ♠Vami _IV†♠  08:52, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The San Sebastian one is clearly not public domain as there is a known photographer who died in 2016. But it should be OK as it was released under a free license by a legitimate archive that apparently owns the rights to it. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  12:16, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, that's good. The other cases make me very sad, though. I hate image copyright and I'm not good at source-hunting for these things. I'll scrap them the problem images from the article. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  13:07, 26 September 2021 (UTC)


 * What about this image, from Commons? --K.e.coffman (talk) 13:18, 26 September 2021 (UTC)


 * File:Léon Degrelle portrait.jpg This picture is in the public domain and can be used! you can thus put it back.Garnhami (talk) 13:27, 26 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Is File:Léon Degrelle à Charleroi - 01.jpg OK for use? – ♠Vami _IV†♠  12:11, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No, because no publication 70+ years ago is listed as claimed by the license. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  15:28, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * i hate copyright law i hate copyright law i hate copyright law &ndah; ♠Vami _IV†♠  17:06, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's ok. It doesn't have too many images, which is a common problem. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  17:36, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Drive-by comments
Excellent work on this article. It and Rexist Party have been on my hitlist for years without, I am ashamed to say, anything really coming of it. I thought I would add some drive-by comments here, ahead of the GA process:


 * Degrelle's journalistic career could use more work. In particular, his reports for the Catholic press from Mexico were very significant in forming his reputation.
 * Working on that... by which I mean finding reliable sources I can access to read and then write about this. But, once I do find and obtain material for this, I'll definitely write about Degrelle's time with the Cristeros.
 * The "In the Wehrmacht" section reads as slightly confused. Can it be clarified?
 * Yes. I'll get on it. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  23:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Battle of the Cherkassy Pocket should be linked, and I'm not sure it can exactly be described as a "victory".
 * More needs to be said, I think, about Degrelle's political activism in the 1930s. He rose to prominence through his polemics (Belgian sources tend to refer to his polemic pamphlet J'accuse M. Segers: j'accuse le ministre Segers d'être un cumulard, un bankster, un pillard d'épargne et un lâche which coined the term bankster) and his attacks on "collusion politico-financière" amid the technocratic "government of bankers" led by Georges Theunis. The current discussion of him as a corporatist only captures half of this.
 * I don't disagree – I do refer to his rhetoric and its hardening of political will against Rex – but my aim in that section was to not get too into the weeds. Deciding the balance of context and the thereafter for this article has been tough, considering how much can said better, or should be said, on Rex's article. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  23:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's any harm in more detail on this aspect. Degrelle's historical importance, arguably, lies more in his political activism in the 1930s than his wartime career... —Brigade Piron (talk) 11:06, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The current article claims that Degrelle studied at the University of Namur rather than Leuven (Louvain). This seems very unlikely. What sources are there for this?
 * My source for his studying at Namur is Colignon, who also mentions that by 1934 Degrelle was living in Louvain. Conway says in both of his works that Degrelle studied at Louvain, but maddeningly never gives any dates. My OR thesis atm is that he studied at Louvain while working for Wallez in 1930. If you can point me to sources to set the record straight, I would be grateful. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  23:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I do not think this is what Colignon says - I have fixed it. —Brigade Piron (talk) 11:06, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not sure why you are discussing this. There were sources that I added before regarding this statement. They seem gone now. But he did study at Louvain after he studied literature in Namur. Several masters thesis's from students at the KU Leuven state this with sources, you have the Biography of Leon Degrelle who also states this. So not sure why this is even up for debate.

More to follow. Thanks! 13:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for these. Ron and I will get on these. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  23:28, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
 * , thanks for this. I have a copy of Léon Degrelle et l'aventure rexiste (1927-1940) but it'll be a few weeks before I can add much to it.—Brigade Piron (talk) 11:06, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That is positively music to my ears, delay or no. If you can speak French, I also haven't fully investigated Willequet 1967, and there are lots of French books and journals I didn't use because I can't access them. – ♠Vami _IV†♠  13:05, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * although I can understand you removed all the books/chapters Degrelle wrote, I do think you need to mention it somewhere. He was a pretty active writer and you should mention this. At least note somewhere he was very active as a propaganda writer or something like this.Garnhami (talk) 13:27, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * This is addressed in the Legacy section. Roniius  talk to me 16:32, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Continue?

 * Are you still interested in working on this article? – ♠Vami _IV†♠  05:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, but I'm afraid I am rather busy IRL at the moment! —Brigade Piron (talk) 07:04, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * All good. I'll wait for further input and a more convenient time for you :). – ♠Vami _IV†♠  14:14, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:37, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Léon Degrelle, 1941.jpg

Teodulfo Lagunero
According to Muere Teodulfo Lagunero, el “millonario rojo” que trajo a Carrillo de incógnito y con peluca:
 * Ejerció como abogado defensor del fascias León Degrelle.

Can you provide a better reference to change the article to something like:
 * which Degrelle's lawyer your ref dismissed by stating that Friedman lacked

? --Error (talk) 09:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)