Talk:L10a140 link

Possible hoax (under previous article name)
None of the citations or external links in the article support anything in the article and a Google and Google Books search for the various terms comes up with nothing (except "it is what it is", which would make a one paragraph stub of questionable notability). Hyacinth (talk) 07:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Ever since the "Marilyn's Cross" stuff has been added to Wikipedia, I've been struck by an irresistable urge not to touch it with a ten-foot pole in any way. If you think it's overall bogus, I'll gladly quickly remove everything about it from article "Brunnian link".  Beyond that, I don't think I want to get personally involved... AnonMoos (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * All of the images appear to have been created by commons:User:LMcCormick, or Laura McCormick. One uploaded from her account credits her & Rick Mabry. Since in this article they are credited with discovering (& naming) the link, this would appear to be at best self promotion through a non-notable subject and at worst a total hoax. Hyacinth (talk) 21:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I cleansed the "Brunnian link" article and "Template:Knot theory"; the rest is up to you. AnonMoos (talk) 05:34, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it is self promotion but I don't see how it is a hoax. Rick Mabry is a published Math prof and Laura McCormick is a student.  What is untruthful about it? 174.88.149.39 (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Even if it's not a malicious hoax, there are still the issues of notability and verifiability from reliable third-party sources. AnonMoos (talk) 09:14, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


 * updated to Original research 216.94.43.4 (talk) 18:02, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Different strategy
It might have been better for them to start by adding it to the http://katlas.math.toronto.edu/wiki/L10a140 page on Knot Atlas, where all information would have been fully-welcomed (if true). It seems a little odd that they rushed to Wikipedia (where their contributions don't really fit in as well) and did nothing at Knot Atlas. AnonMoos (talk) 20:15, 24 April 2013 (UTC)



Uploaded image
Uploaded a version of the L10a140 link in canonical form (10 crossings alternating), and visually presented in such a way that it's evident it's a Brunnian link... AnonMoos (talk) 18:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

My proposal
It would have a certain amount of inherent notability as the simplest Brunnian link other than the Borromean rings, so I would rename it to "L10a140 link", have File:Brunnian-L10a140.svg as the lead image, and drastically cut down on the Marilyn stuff. AnonMoos (talk) 10:15, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * This seems like a wise direction to take it. 216.94.43.4 (talk) 16:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Jablan website citation
The sentence reads like this:

In June 2012 it was noticed by Mabry and McCormick[citation needed] that the link turns out to be equivalent to a 10-crossing alternating link previously described by Slavik V. Jablan

Then follows a citation a pointer to the actual reference by Jablan. There's two parts to the above. First is the equivalancy noticed by Mabry and McCormick (and marked for needing a citation halfway through the sentence). The remainder of the sentence merely mentions (and is what seems to be at issue) that there is "a 10-crossing link described by Jablan." There is certainly a 10-crossing link in Jablan's webpage. Certainly there is a question of the equivalency to L10a140 (but isn't this covered by the first citation-needed). 174.88.149.39 (talk) 00:46, 2 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it's pretty clear that the middle link in image http://www.mi.sanu.ac.rs/vismath/bor/bor8.jpg on page http://www.mi.sanu.ac.rs/vismath/bor/bor4.htm is the same as File:Brunnian-L10a140.svg -- all you have to do is rotate one or the other by 90°, and they clearly have the same structure (or the same structure except that under-crossings in one correspond to over-crossings in the other, and vice-versa, which is the same thing)... AnonMoos (talk) 03:52, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Image requested tag
Any knot transformation diagram significantly more complex than File:Trefoil-non-3-symm-flip demonstration.svg is going to be very hard to understand... AnonMoos (talk) 15:44, 4 May 2013 (UTC)