Talk:LAN party/Archives/2014

Wlan Console Promotional Events.
For example, Nintendo does promotional events for the Pokémon franchise, and my point regarding this article is, that those events usually turn into wlan parties: A place filled with over hundred 10to20-year-olds of whom every second has a compartible wlan-console playing in various groups, usually not even knowing who-in-the-crowd they really compete against, causing more data transfer than any wlan-sniffer could handle. Do we count or mention tese as lan parties?

Recent Vandalism
Recently my brother has been randomly removing content and citations and adding their own POV to the article. This is my brother's IP and he believes that LAN parties are typically not BYOC (bring your own computer). Look out for these edits. Note he is also editing my comments to try and falsely incriminate me. Whoblitzell 19:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Equipement?
Maybe there should be a section about the equipement used to set up and run the LAN. Perhaps just a link to networking equipement or something?!--Windfinder 20:23, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * I'll try to write an overview of what is typically used and what current trends in that area are. That's a bit difficult however -- I can comment on the net-side of things extensively, but not much else; Power considerations are equally as important, as is secondary "entertainment" and whatever else makes lanparties "tick" :) Eike 19:04, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)

List of LAN partys
Is there a list of LAN parties on WP? I will check when I have more time but I had just removed this from the Tasmania article:

''There are also quite a few regular community based events around the state.

http://www.nexuslan.net.au Nexus LAN''

and thought it might suit here.. -- Chuq 05:47, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Such a list would be pointless -- Around the world there are dozens of lanparties every week; throughout the year there are dozens, if not hundreds that exceed 1000 attendees. Listing some notable ones makes sense so the reader can get an idea of what there is, but for more detailed lists far better resources (some are linked) exist. Besides, I would not want to be the one keeping hundreds of links up to date ;) Eike 19:04, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * Not creating such a list will polute the article. Why would LAN Party X have a place in the article and not LAN Party Y? You will always have people continuously added their LAN Party to that list in this article. The reader will already know what a LAN Party is all about if he/she has read the article, so for the sake of example I wouldn't keep the list in this article. Another idea might be is to show like the single largest (in occupied space, or number of patrons), the longest (time), the most expensive, the most Northern/Southern, ... just stuff that can be easily verified and measured. Panic1 09:40, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The term "LAN"
People have started to use the term "LAN" for LAN parties, rather than the Local Area Networks themselves. It has become so widespread that most people think it's the proper meaning of the term. Am I the only one bothered by this? 85.76.152.179 17:45, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * "Most people" in the world of people who go to these parties, perhaps. I have only ever seen it used that way amongst people actually attending, but never outside that (university/school/professional life). It's shorthand slang, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Perhaps it's simply due to the fact that LAN is technical term which is not terribly important to most people, including attendees; i.e. the same people who do not know what a MAN or WAN is, or who refer to a problem with their dialup connection as "The Internet is broken". Eike 08:38, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks for the explanation. I personally have some experience in setting up Local Area Networks (in fact I used to have one on my desk at home), but you wouldn't catch me dead at a LAN party. With this background, seeing people use "LAN" for "LAN party" at Internet forums is a bit annoying. But it's just me, I guess. 85.76.152.179 18:18, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I would say that this is not necessarily a term that they use to replace "LAN Party" but merely a shortening of the term. It is annoying. Is it that hard to type the extra five letters... or to use the extra two syllables? How lazy is our culture?! --Andrew &#39;Mickey Knox&#39; Gearhart 13:58, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm guilty. I've been using the term LAN to describe LAN Parties, even when talking about arranging LAN's. This doesn't mean that I (and others like me) don't know what the term LAN means, just that the two are used in different contexts. Of course, i'm opposed to do this when it would confuse people Nichlas 12:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Equipment

 * Computer
 * Monitor
 * Power strip
 * 3 Prong Extension Cord to run from other room
 * All spare networking cables
 * Keyboard
 * Mouse
 * Power cables for monitor and computer
 * Games and game cd-keys
 * Head phones
 * Mouse Pad

Am i missing anything?


 * If it is an overnight event, then sleeping and wash items. Also OS reload CD's as there is always someone who has to reformat their computer. Rmwebs 22:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What about a hub, switch, or router? At times this isn't something an individual brings along, but I have had to bring my own switch to LAN parties, because the present hub/switch/router isn't big enough or we need to stretch a line of cables & connections to reach the modem.  Possibly just a "Small LAN Party" addendum?  My 2% of a dollar.  PPatBoyd 23:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest bringing a set of screwdrivers, a set of earplugs, and something warm to wear around your neck in case your seat is in a draught (if this i a big event). I've been to parties where i'd wished i brought those. Nichlas 12:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems that someone tagged the Equipment section that cites no sources [Since Oct 07]? Honestly, what is their to cite about it? Do we need to link in some lan sites that tells you what to bring? I'd than say the linking out to other lan sites is singling events out. So whoever did that, please do explain! --bc 09:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the section even belongs in the article. Wikipedia is not a how-to guide. --Mugsywwiii (talk) 01:57, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Power Discussion
I Broke this into it's own section because of the massive amount of discussion.

I think that I will go through and clean it out, summarizing the main points, and eventually removing all the junk. This might take a while. Dicion 04:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Summary so far:

-- No Circuit should be loaded over 80%. It is actually against the National Electric Code to load a breaker over 80% of it's rating for more then 2 hours. (NEC Specifies this as requiring any constant loads on a circuit to multiplied by 1.25, which works out to loading a circuit at 80% to keep it within rating over time). If you load a circuit 100%, it will pop. Do not plan power distro utilization 100% at the circuit level, but rather, plan total utilization at the source level (Generator, etc). If you need any more information on this, please, contact me and I will give you examples.

-- The Rating of computer power supplies is NOT how much power they require to operate. Same goes for monitors, or any electrical device. Those are their 'MAX' ratings.

-- You can have some people over 350W, but the average pull over a circuit will still generally be under 350W per person. (obviously the larger the circuit, the better, as it will average better)

-- These numbers have been used and proven at many Large (Multi-THOUSAND people) Lan parties.

-- Please do not try to argue this unless you are a certified electrician, or at least know what you are talking about. The ability to explain power factor (Which I'm not even going to go into in this article, because 99% of people don't have to worry about it, only those of us with over 1,000 people normally do) would certify you as someone who knows what theyre talking about.

-- 350W Is still a fine number to use for average attendee pull. Dicion 04:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion follows below:


 * The Power requirements of 500-650 Watts is OUTRAGEOUS. 300-350 is STILL a fine number to guestimate power consumption by. Sure, power requirements for the system have gone up, but more then half of gamers nowadays (my personal estimate by observation) use LCD's, the net power usage hasn't increased that much. Anyone that disagrees with me, can contact me personally to argue it. Dicion 13:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

---

Actually, there are many many power supplies requiring high power amounts.

---
 * Once again, we have an uninformed person reading wattage ratings on a power supply as it's consumption. This is not true. a 400W power supply Is capable of delivering 400W of power to your system, yes, but that is only if all the voltages provided by your psu are completely maxxed out to their full potential, at the same time. I have yet to actually see a PC that does this. Generally, this is only achieved via load banks in professional PSU testing.
 * Once again, please; actually measure the pull of your home PC, both at idle, and at full load, and you will see that even a 400-500W PSU does NOT CONSUME THAT MUCH POWER. Dicion 04:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, 500 Watts is what you should plan for. Putting more than 6 people on a 20 amp circuit is NOT a good idea. That works out to an average of 3.67 Amps per person, well above 300 watts. At our LAN of 500 people I plan the power, and I garuntee you that you would pop power breakers if you only planned this. Part of the problem is that you say "per attendee" - Do you think they all have LCD's or CRT's? Raise it to 500 Watt man, trust me. (My LAN resume includes being the organizer of 8 500 person lans, 2 NVIDIA Launch Lan parties, 1 LAN Party for PCGamer, and Maximum PC, I know what I am talking about)


 * Statements like 6 people on 20amps is a bit silly on a global encyclopedia. UK LAN parties tend to budget for around 1-2A per person as with a 230v supply, less current is drawn.. The 1000+ player i-Series consistently has 24 people on a 32A feed. - Murray-Mint 15:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, No. 500 Watts is WAY to high. 6 people on a 20 amp circuit is 300-350 watts per person, with a 20% overhead for stuff like booting, spikes, and non-exact breakers (typical 20A breakers are actually 20A +/- 1-2A. I prefer to err on the side of the Minus. Plus, any electrician will tell you to never load a circuit 100%) I never said to place more then 6 people on a 20A circuit, but do not count that circuit as 100% utilization either. It is actually against the National Electric Code to load a breaker over 80% of it's rating for more then 2 hours. (NEC Specifies this as requiring any constant loads on a circuit to multiplied by 1.25, which works out to loading a circuit at 80% to keep it within rating over time)
 * While computing power is going up, there is a large push on energy conservation, as the new Core 2 Duo's, and AMD low-power systems are showing. Also, with a move from CRT's to LCDs, the power requirement there still goes down. 300-350W per person is still more then enough. If you don't believe me, please, at your next lan party, actually measure current pulled by a random sample of machines. I believe you will find that most setups pull no more then 200W at idle, and 260-275W at full load.
 * As Long as you're going to be whipping out 'but I do XXX', I think my experience trumps yours, as I have done Power for QuakeCon (The Largest Lan Party in the United States) for the past 4 years, as well as many smaller events such as Digital Overload, and have not had a problem with my numbers, which have been 300-350w per person (depending on layout, etc). Yes, this is an average, and we typically use 30A circuits which helps the average balance better, but it still doesnt change the fact that 300-350W per person works fine. If you don't believe me, feel free to come to Digital Overload '07 (Estimated 700 person Lan), where I will be there, using 300-350W per person in my layout plan. Like I said, feel free to argue with me on this, on my talk page if you wish. Do not go blindly changing the article. I think that my experience in this matter is about as 'expert' as you can get in North America. If any Assembly, The Gathering, Dreamhack, or other large Euro Demoparty people wish to discuss this, they're more 'expert' on this then I am :)
 * In regards to statement of '6 people on 20amps', yes, that is for 120VAC systems only, hence why I prefer to explain it in watts, and keep it global.
 * However, To help explain the 'utilization' issue, which seems to be the crux of this arguement (people are planning for 100% utilization of instead of 80%) I will use 6 people on a typical N. American 20A home circuit as an example, if someone from another country wants to place an example based on typical voltage/amperage of a circuit there, that is fine as well. Dicion 16:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks Dicion, by all means I'll provide an example from the UK's largest LAN party, the i-Series (800-1500 people) where I have worked as part of the Yellow Shirt network support team. We run a maximum of 24 people off of 32A at 230V. This gives us a total of 306.6W per user and this is the worst case scenario, it's normally 368W. In my memory of staffing for the past 9 events, there have been no power problems due to overloading a single 32A. We have had issues where the Electricians did not distribute the power equally across all 3 phases, but this was remedied. I also help run a smaller event for 55 people and there we have approximately 8 people on 13A, which is 373.75W. Our main problem at the smaller events tends to be Earth Leakage. So I'd have to agree with Dicion that 300-350W is about right. Murray-Mint 20:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Once Again someone changed it to 500-600 watts. The notion that 'some high end systems require 800 watts' is insane, unless of course you're talking about a NAS server with 30 drives and redundant power supplies. Plus, the link to the 'rating' of the monitor is it's MAX pull, not it's constant pull. Yes, CRT's especially have a large spike on startup, but after that, they settle down a lot. Please, before you change the power section in the future, READ THIS SECTION. 300-350W on average with 80% loading has proven itself at many lanparties, small and large. Dicion 16:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

This discussion and the resultant section in the article is pointless, if the respective authors don't start specifying the number of phases on the circuits that they're recommending. 20A on a 110V circuit will give you less than 20A on a 230V circuit - and 20A on a 230V single phase will still give you less than 20A on three phases of 230V. Please, if you must change the article, specify exactly how the circuit is to be laid out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.18.8.1 (talk) 21:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Piracy
In my experience, piracy at lans is in the majority with most attendees engaging in it. It's a little dissapointing but it is the truth and it would be misleading to say otherwise.


 * Agreed. Although this information should be presented neutraly, a lot of people share and download from eachother to discover new music, try out games before buying them, see if a film is worth buying on DVD or even seeing in the cinema, download porn (I have yet to witness a LAN party where the percentage of porn shared compared to the total amount of data shared is less then 25%) and just enjoy a weekend or week of trying out all kinds of digital entertainment. Sometimes people share rare and exclusive material with little or no commercial value, sometimes just the latest "hits".


 * The current text:
 * While being in the minority, and usually discouraged or forbidden by the party organization, some attendees also use these parties for the purpose of copyright infringement (often trading copies of software, music, and movies).
 * ..is misleading. Even though the organisation of a LAN party often makes a clear statement about not condoning such activities, "leeching" very much is an integral part of many a LAN party (although this will vary depending on the type of visitors. I expect a gathering such as DefCon sees less leeching then a large gaming/entertainment LANparty; CampZone in the Netherlands comes to mind)


 * In short, "leeching" is very much part of your average LAN party, and most people participate in the act of leeching. For example, at last week's "CampZone", a eleven day outdoor event with 1750 participants, you could access as much as 150 Terabyte of multimedia at any given time. JeroenHoek 20:42, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't agree with the current text, that certain lan parties endorse 'copyright infringement' by using DC++ and the like. They endorse free file sharing, yes, but not copyright infringement. Many Lans use DC++ due to the fact that windows filesharing is Noisy, Spreads Viruses, and because DC++ has a centralized 'chat' where people throughout the lan party can converse. All the DC++ hubs I've run at lan parties do not REQUIRE people to share files, and they all have also all had an official Patch Server for the latest game patches and updates. So saying that lan parties that use DC++ gratuitously Endorse Copyright Infringement is outright incorrect. I however, don't know what wording should be put there to make it sound better :)


 * Alright, I edited the File Sharing section, I think I accomplished the goal... Even though yes, there is mass piracy at lan parties via file sharing, most lan parties officially at the least, discourage it. Most go as far as to say it's forbidden, but then do not enforce it, or enforce it very lightly, probably due to the fact that it would require someone monitoring it 24/7 to enforce such a rule. Also added the positive, legal reasons to run such a Peer-to-peer server. I'm quite open to discussing any further edits with anyone who believes that I have left something out. Dicion 19:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

History
OK, so User:TERdON added a "History" section without content - what should be put into here? I personally dont know the history of LAN parties, does anyone else? --Jeffthejiff | Talk 17:46, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I think we can remove those sections until someone has something to put in them. Ablaze 08:07, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * The section was "History", with subsections "Swapparties" and "Influence of the demoscene". Perhaps the subsections were'nt the smartest but I'm still going to be bold and readd the main heading. Hopefully, eventually, some one will add something to it. I don't like such a gaping hole in the article, and I don't think it is as probable that some one will add to it if there isn't a notice. (like we wouldn't want the section if some one just wanted to write it). TERdON 01:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by the current history section. Saying that lan-parties originated from students playing single-player unix game is just plain wrong. LAN parties grew out of the advancement of networking tech, and the current large parties in europe grew without any help any from american students. I think there should be a whole other section explaining why there is this gap between EU/US concerning these parties. Explaining why the biggest ones are in europe and so on. Nichlas 12:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, the history is plain wrong from an European perspective, it explains the origin of the term "LAN Party" perhaps, and how small scale parties were held in the US. But that was most certainly is not how the European LAN culture in gymnasiums, large public arenas and show centers emerged. In Europe the LAN party culture evolved gradually from Copy Parties into Demo Parties and then into LAN Parties centered around gaming.


 * In the beginning (late 80:s) people assembled in schools to have fun, play games, swap games, programs and demos and the popular term was "Copy Party". The organizers were usually a Demo Crew, or perhaps one of the "notorious" gangs of crackers or a local computer club and a typical party had 30-100 visitors.


 * With time (early 90's) the copy element of the parties faded away slightly, the popular term became "Demo Party" and the events grew larger (50-500 visitors). The parties were often organized by more than one Demo Crew, and the Demo Crews had become more professional organizations almost structured as small nonprofit companies. The center of the event were Demoscene competitions in music, demo making, computer graphics and sometimes some small just-for-fun game competitions in Midi-maze, Stunt Car Racer, Populous or some other multi-player Atari ST or Amiga game.


 * In the mid 90's the ever growing events started to become LAN-parties as more and more PC:s had networking hardware. Many visitors started to come there simply to play games, though the organizers still viewed it as a demo event with Demoscene competitions being the main event and the Demoscene presence were still dominant, and the organizers were still Demo Crews.


 * About 2000, the gaming had begun to dominate several parties, many or most visitors of these parties had never heard of the Demoscene and thus it became natural to call the event LAN Party or whatever the kids of today call it. The old geezers in the Demoscene began to grow tired of setting up events to people who didn't even know who the organizers were or what they had produced in the past, etc... yata, yata (the ordinary old folks rant about the disrespectful youth of today), and a clear separation between the Demo Parties and LAN Parties began to occur. And from then on LAN Parties were never held by Demo Crews and Demo Crews only visited Demo Parties and everyone lived happily forever after. (Someone else than me can give a better description of the European computer party culture of the mid-90's to today, as I was not really a part of the party culture then)
 * /Old Geezer 81.227.0.54 06:06, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm going to take this one even further and say that it's about right for mainland Europe/Northern Europe. In the UK, it's totally different as there was never really a demoscene as such. They initially took place as a way of gamers getting together to play games without the latency of dialup.
 * Having now been to DreamHack, I can say that this is the first time I've experienced the Demoscene and the incredible stuff they do. We've really missed out in the UK! Murray-Mint-UK 15:11, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Xbox system links
I'm wondering why the section of Xbox system links was removed? It is a dirrerent type of LAN party and i think it should be included. Ablaze 08:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I didnt notice that it was removed. It should be put in. I'll try and find it in the history. --Jeffthejiff | Talk 17:29, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

New user here, but the XBOX lan parties have gotten the term "BYOX" instead of "BYOC" I think that the proper thing to do would make note that some are having Xbox lans otherwise known as BYOX - and link to that article (if such exists).

This is not an advertising space, or place to deride other lan parties
Seriously guys, this 'my lan party is awesome, and QuakeCon is for Bumriders' shit has got to stop. This is a wikipedia entry, not some lame user forums where 12 year old script kiddies argue who's dad is better.... quit it. Keep it neutral. 70.244.46.82 05:41, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Console system links
I think that the Xbox system links should be changed to console system links section, because most console systems have some sort of system link. - Nintendonien 15:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree fully; with the latest generation of consoles, there is no need to keep it at Xbox anymore. 150.156.101.28 12:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Piracy
Hello.

I removed the following piece from the intro since it has no place being there, wikipedia is about factual enlightenment not about campaigning your own views. If you want it in the article, place it in the section about piracy.

Here it is:

In the first empirical study in that field Fetscherin, Kaskiris, & Wallenberg 2005show that people are not only gaming but also sharing copyrighted content on LAN-parties.

Addicted2Sanity 16:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll second this one. A great number of people are also drinking booze and shooting drugs, but we don't mention this, do we? Nichlas 12:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

How-to
What about a guide on what you need to know to host a lan? I mean... 20 computers or so will need a lot of power ? And how do you know if the wires can handle it? ^16:56, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, practical technical competence is a must here. 72.187.99.79 (talk) 06:28, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Material on Lan craze
The section containing the concept Lan craze has been removed and replaced by a paragraph that doesn't bring in original research for no reliable source can be cited for the material removed. Material removed follows : ''LAN craze, or LAN crazed is a condition reportedly experienced by lanners during the early hours of morning. It is a known phenomenon amongst Lanning circles and is usually a combination of acute fatigue and use of energy drinks such as Red Bull. Other factors include intense pressure in games and effects from staring at a screen for extended periods of time. During a LAN crazed state, a Lanner will generally not require sleep, may have sudden bursts of energy and experience light auditory hallucinations. Minor visual hallucinations are possible in the case of acute LAN craze, but very uncommon and extremely short in duration. When groups of Lanners experience LAN craze collectively, they occasionally decide to leave their computers and take up physical activities of a competitive nature. This often results in very entertaining situations where lanners assert their dominance over their peer cohort. Being LAN crazed can be a very entertaining experience, similar to being intoxicated with alcohol. There have been no recorded fatalities from LAN craze to date. Sufferers can recover from the condition by having sufficient sleep and water, to give their body a chance to calm down from their exciting LAN experience.''

Lincher 05:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Outdoor LAN parties
Perhaps there could be a (sub)section for or at least some mentioning of outdoor LAN parties, such as CampZone (English version English FAQ) in the Netherlands? These are much like normal LAN parties, only tend to go on longer (10-11 days instead of a big weekend) and are outdoors, in tents. I don't think these are very common, but all the more reason to put it in this article instead of making a new article. --Wacko 00:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed, there needs to be more information about CampZone TBH. 62.56.119.224 23:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Event Organizer Software
I've added "event organizer software" to the list of things used in a larger lan party. Should I create page outlining the different organizer software (ALP, lanhub, some CMS plugins for example), or should I just keep it in this page? --Heliumfilledstamp 00:00, 31 Dec 2009 (UTC)

LAN and Computer party not the same
LAN party and Computer party is not the same so why do you get redirected in here if you search for computer party?

"No. LAN party and computer party is NOT the same thing. At a LAN party everything is centered around the network. Everybody just sits there, staring at their screens whilst copying porn, warez and playing games. A computer party is much more. There are competitions, both in computer games and computer art. People meet, people talk, and there is plenty to see and experience even when away from your computer. (I didn't even bring my computer to TG01, and I had a great time!) Sometimes there are shows on the stage (most LAN parties don't even have a stage), and even speeches you can go to to learn more computer stuff." --Luriksen (talk) 14:01, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what LAN parties you are going to, but the LAN party hosted by the school I attend (50+ people) has tournaments, side competitions (like a Bawls relay), a (broken) computer smash, and pen-and-paper games as well. Lots of people sit around and socialize or play on the consoles (or watch others play) while shooting the breeze. The comment you have about speeches sounds more like an Expo or a Convention than a party. 149.15.75.191 (talk) 18:15, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Trouble-shooting computer skills
I have four friends that play games with me. We set up impromptu LAN parties in a random room in a random house often with random computers. Each time set-up takes at least around two hours from the time we have each computer plugged in. There are multiple issues to overcome. Mac compatibility. Windows side partitioning. Sharing folders. Exchanging the software to be played. Passwords. Firewalls. Updating. Wifi or hard line. Driver issues. Adequate numbers of mouses is a crucial and common complication. Sound systems can become overwhelming. Little brothers "can I play". Mothers who want to use their own PC. Setting up a LAN takes practical logistics skills, and networking knowledge. I think this article should reflect the talents that will be necessary to achieve a functioning network.72.187.99.79 (talk) 06:21, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Larger LANs
I found this line "At bigger LANs (e.g. 5 or more people) the host or a friend of the host will use a spare PC as a game server to serve all the participants. Usually the host and/or the owner are admins." and I think it is complete rubbish. I frequent "Larger" LANs of more than 5 people quite often and we have NEVER used a spare PC as a server. Furthermore, "admin" is not formal English and should be corrected to "administrator". Aleksandar Bulovic&#39; (talk) 20:26, 10 April 2012 (UTC)