Talk:LGBT culture/Archive 1

Gay male culture
Currently LGBT articles are mostly conflated with gay male topics. While the lesbian, bisexual and transgender articles are about these specific communities/cultures, there is no one article about the gay male community/culture. The "gay" article is only about the word "gay." Wikipedia should differentiate LGBT culture/community and gay male culture/community out of respect for the other LGBT communities. I don't know how to do that. I'm new here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tornado66 (talk • contribs) 17:16, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Cliches after cliches
This article is just a collection of hilarious cliches. I am just having a laugh reading it but it is quite sad that so much prejudice can be laid down in such a few words! Bravo Wikipedia! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.35.107.232 (talk) 17:50, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Bisexual Culture
The article states that bisexual culture "emphasizes opposition to or disregard of fixed sexual and gender identity called monosexism..."

This is completely untrue. The bisexual culture does not emphasize opposition or disregard to monosexism, it emphasizes acceptance of bisexual culture. There may be some members of the bisexual community which may believe that monosexuality does not truly exist, but that's a far cry from the community as a whole standing in opposition to it or disregarding it. I cast my vote with a complete rewrite of this article due to biased and unfounded contentions. Shayalon (talk) 21:15, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Biased and unacademic
This article does not merit a place on wikipedia it is biased and unacademic. It should be moved into the LGBT section. The term queer is also highly debated - it is not, in my opinion, appropriate for use in an academic article being a term of hatred and abuse assumed by a small proportion of the gay community, but rejected by an equally large segment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.234.62 (talk) 05:52, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

This reads like an angry high school essay.
The section on gay men's culture reads like an angry high-school essay, it needs a complete revamp, the entire article is in dire need of an expert on the issue, as it stands now it doesn't belong on Wikipedia at all. I'm going to request one of the LGBT professors at BU take a look at this one, if that fails then I'll beging to edit it myself, insofar as eliminating the obvious bias in tone that the article has now.

And I quote:

"The men's costumes were designed by a man, the dance was choreographed by a man, and the dancers seem more interested in each other than in Russell, but her reassuring presence gets the sequence past the censors and fits it into an overall heterocentric theme."

This illustrates my point pretty clearly. Celareon (talk) 13:35, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Celareon (talk • contribs) 13:18, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I see your point. Also, no one has responded to this in over a year. Does anyone have anything to contribute to this? As an ally of the LGBT* community, but not a heavily involved one, I'm not sure I'm qualified to make any real content changes to this article. I'll stick to copyediting. :) Spock of Vulcan (talk) 23:06, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Gay clerical culture
I noticed that the term gay culture was sometimes used when refering to the elements of the Roman Catholic clergy that to do not respect the celibacy rule and that are perceived as morally corrupt. While many of the corrupted clergymen are not homosexual and are otherwise involved in heterosexual affairs, the controversies surrounding the homosexual clerical culture are particularly acute because several public commentators have openly made links between homosexual clerics and the recent pedophile priest scandal. [ http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26940 ] ADM (talk) 06:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Should this be added?
Many gay fantasy characters include cowboys, police officers, soldiers, jocks, construction workers, plummers, etc. Should something about this be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.167.245.190 (talk) 20:47, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Some "definition"
The lead section starts: "LGBT culture, or queer culture, is the common culture...". This is akin to saying: "A liquid is a state of matter when it's liquid". This is an Encyclopedia, and as such it is not supposed to have, or accept, stupid definitions. --AVM (talk) 22:35, 26 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that many encyclopedic topics don't have good one-sentence definitions. The article itself is responsible for describing LGBT culture; the sentence saying "LGBT culture is the culture of LGBT people" is only there so that the title can be in the first sentence per the MOS. --Alynna (talk) 16:45, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Drug abuse in the LGBT community
I think there should be a specific article about drug abuse in the LGBT community. I'm not saying this in a negative or discriminatory way, but many researchers have in fact found that the problem of drug abuse is at least 20-25 % more common among gays, lesbians or transsexuals. ADM (talk) 18:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * We should indicate that correlations of LGBT people having any higher rate likely correspond to Catholic violence of gender and sexual minorities over centuries. See, I can inject an editorial influence over articles too. -- Banj e  b oi   23:55, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


 * That's not really the same thing. It is true that studies show a high level of drug abuse in the LGBT community. I don't think that's a negative thing to say. The studies also show that this correlation is because of things like gay bashing in high schools. We mustn't ignore facts just because they aren't particularly pleasant. However, I'm not entirely sure this is the right article for it, seeing as how that's not really a "culture" thing... I think it belongs somewhere, though. Spock of Vulcan (talk) 23:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Intersex?
How come no mention of Intersex people? In Australia we usually include them in the acronym LGBTI. Tooironic (talk) 23:29, 13 August 2010 (UTC)


 * That's an absence that needs some fixing, I agree. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 20:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Well not all intersexual people are too happy to be included in the gay culture and are quite if not very negative of Buthler's inclusion of them in her theories. Best --83.254.33.180 (talk) 23:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC) (I should make a user, I know:-)


 * Not all homosexual people are too happy to be included under the same rubric as transgender and intersex people. I have no idea why this LGBT culture is being permitted to own homosexuality here on Wikipedia--it doesn't. 75.132.142.26 (talk) 21:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge proposal
The result was Merge Lionel (talk) 04:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Schrandit has proposed that the article Youth Pride be merged into this article.
 * Support because the topics seem to fit together well. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:51, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Support unless someone thinks that these folks are not really a sub-group inside this culture or that there is a better place that this copy could fit. - Schrandit (talk) 06:12, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, these are not the same subject! Youth Pride is about LGBTQ youth, this article is about the adults. A summary here might make sense but merging the two would be detrimental, isn't that the only article about these youth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verbal Morality (talk • contribs) 19:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the current "Youth Pride" article is very vague. It does contain a lot of sourced information but not all of it is pertinent, it presents no organization and does not indicate if Youth Pride is a movement, an organization, a recognized term or how all of that information connects to the subject.  Maybe there is a better place for the pertinent information to go but for now I don't think there is enough for it to stand alone as an article. - Schrandit (talk) 14:42, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not true. You tried this before insisting that the article wasn't about the Youth Pride movement when it clearly was. The second sentence reads "The movement exists in many countries and focuses mainly on festivals and parades, enabling many LGBTIQ youth to network, communicate, and celebrate their gender and sexual identities". The article is about the subject of Youth Pride mostly in the United States although similar efforts are undertaken at Pride events around the world. I think this is done for several reasons which I could not source so left it out. Pride events are geared for adults who are independent and out of the closet, they also serve alcohol and focus on more adult food and entertainment. Youth Pride are generally alcohol and drug free, are high-energy and are geared for teens and young adults. I only put sourced information in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verbal Morality (talk • contribs) 18:22, 12 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Support Youth pride appears to be a neologism. Lionel (talk) 20:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Youth culture
Someone just added a huge block of text detailing a series of gay rights public rallies and meetings for young people. While this is an important topic, having what is essentially a big, disorganized list of events fill an article isn't really helpful. I would rather just have a few short sentences about that X,Y,Z events occur and not have a big list of events. Sugar-Baby-Love (talk) 20:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

The vs A
I think it's preferable to use "a" when describing LGBT culture instead of "the". "The" implies that there is a singular LGBT culture, when there isn't. LGBT culture varies from region to region, which the lead mentions.--Beijingdemocracy (talk) 22:03, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it would be correct to say that this article currently describes American and European gay culture in particular. I'm not sure what the best way to handle your concern might be, but I definitely don't think changing every definite article to indefinite article would clarify anything. [whoops forgot to sign]. -- Ryvr (talk) 19:10, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Copy-edited
I did a thorough pass-through the article for spelling, grammar, and mechanics errors, of which I think I generally caught and fixed almost all. There remain major issues for the article, particularly needing a more encyclopedic style in several sections, and some statements lacking reliable references. There's also probably a lot of good information that could be found, added, and updated.

I believe we can remove the "copy edit|date=January 2012" template from the top because the problems are information and style now, not spelling, grammar, or mechanics. -- Ryvr (talk) 19:09, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

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LGBT Culture in the Military
"In 2010, the repeal of the Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT)[99] was a great step in the inclusion of lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals in the military. “The repeal of DADT reversed the practice of discharging LGB service members on the basis of sexual identity.” Although this was a large shift in policy by the U.S. for those identifying as LGB, those who are transgender are still not fully included in this change.

Some challenges that transgender people face post-DADT are “changing their name to align with their gender identity, changing their sex designation in official documentation and records, encouraging appropriate pronoun use, and obtaining appropriate medical services” (Levy et al., 2015; Parco et al., 2015a, 2015b).[100] Another challenge that they face is Transphobia which is “the intense dislike of prejudice against transsexual or transgender people” (Hill & Willoughby)."

Unencyclopedic and American-centrist. "Great" and "Challenge" are both not NPOV. Viciouspiggy (talk) 10:20, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Discuss the introduction here instead of reverting back and forth
"LGBT culture is a culture shared by lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender, questioning, and queer individuals. It is sometimes referred to as queer culture (indicating people who are queer), while the term gay culture may be used to mean 'LGBT culture' or to refer specifically to homosexual culture." The disagreement appears to be over what "queer" really means; if it's a slur or a catchall term for the LGBTQA+ community. puggo (talk) 02:01, 21 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The distinction doesn't matter. The IP user removing info states that they are separate communities without evidence, and the fact is that LGBT culture is sometimes referred to as queer culture. Just like in the subsequent sentence where it describes it sometimes being referred to wholesale as gay culture, despite not all LGBT people being gay/using the word to describe themselves. --Equivamp - talk 02:58, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

“Capitalism and commodification”
This section under ‘criticism’ is in dire need of a clean up and reduction in size. It has about 20 citations which are only relevant to Spain. Sxologist (talk) 14:37, 21 March 2020 (UTC)


 * ✅ I have removed the capitalism section. This article is about LGBT culture, and that section lived under "criticisms of LGBT culture". If you want to add a section regarding marketing towards LGBT people, then you need to fit it in elsewhere in the page and keep it brief.--Sxologist (talk) 15:22, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Serious issues with scope and notability
This article has serious issues with many topics being out of scope. See WP:SCOPE. This article is about LGBT culture, not about every single group that could also be LGBT. There is currently a section called "other LGBT groups", with a section about people who are LGBT and happen to be deaf or are bi-gender.

This article is NOT a place to put a list or explanation of different sexualities or identities. This article is here to cover different cultures among LGBT people in general. Areas relating to different ethnicities must focus on culture. It is perfectly reasonable to have a section about African American or Hispanic LGBT cultures. However, this is not the place to put statistics about how many Latina or black people identify as LGBT. That has nothing to do with culture and is already covered by other pages on wikipedia. For this reason I am adding cleanup tags and notes where necessary. --Sxologist (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
 * As noted by Oshwah with this edit, you need to discuss or attempt to discus these matters with others here on the article talk page, especially when one or more editors dispute your removal of content. Simply posting your views on the talk page and then removing the content a few minutes or hours later is not you discussing the matter with anyone. Yes, WP:BOLD is a thing, but so is the WP:CAREFUL section of WP:BOLD, which addresses controversial articles. Every LGBT topic is a contentious article. The scope of this article, including as far as culture goes, can be subjective. Therefore, it is something that needs discussion. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:32, 22 March 2020 (UTC)


 * In addition,, articles on LGBT-related topics are under increased community scrutiny because of their potentially controversial nature. I've left you a standard notice about this on your user talk page, here.  You're welcome to edit here, but please read through and understand the impact of this notice on articles like this one, and how it may affect your editing here. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 02:05, 22 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you Flyer and Mathglot. I first focused on removing claims which were un-cited as per the rules of Verifiability. However, I do apologize because I had misinterpreted that you should remove something immediately. I since have re-read the policy and see that immediately removal only applies in several instances. However, I do think that my edits regarding removal of large definitions of identities such as bi-gender were valid in the case of culture. In future, I will place something on the talk page and get additional feedback first. Is there a specific way to go about pinging the relevant people or getting consensus? Because based on other talk sections here, some of the issues I have with this article were highlighted back in 2010 (in the case of youth culture), and received no additional discussion and the section remains in place. --Sxologist (talk) 04:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Useful source
If anybody is looking to expand this article, this is a useful and reputable book: Exploring LGBT Spaces and Communities: Contrasting Identities, Belongings and Wellbeing by Eleanor Formby. However only 35 pages are available on Google books. Sxologist (talk) 00:54, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Proposal for page about historical (Pre-Stonewallish) LGBT culture on the LGBT Studies WikiProject page
What it says on the tin. Also another proposal to do with the historiography of queer identities. I think it's important to get as many opinions about these proposals as possible, so I hope it's okay that I'm "advertising" here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lexid523 (talk • contribs) 19:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

"Gay lifestyle" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Gay lifestyle. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 17 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Sangdeboeuf (talk) 19:19, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

"Homosexual lifestyle" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Homosexual lifestyle. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 17 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Sangdeboeuf (talk) 19:21, 17 June 2021 (UTC)