Talk:LGBT rights in Greece

Untitled
The part on greek family law is not very neutral. Not everyone sees it that way. Some sources on unconstitutionality are certainly needed. I also removed all quotation marks, the law is indeed interpreted that way and the legislator probably meant it that way also (or else he would have clarified things during the last 23 years since the amendment). Of course this has nothing to do with my opinion on gay marriage, just trying to be neutral--Archidamus 23:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete discrimination section
I propose deleting the Gay rights in Greece section. Nothing there is sourced and that the examples cited amount to discrimination is nothing more than a POV. I don't see how they are discriminatory. If they fired someone from their work for identifying as gay, then yes, that is an example of something discriminatory. Those examples are not. //Dirak 11:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Aha. So put a unreferenced tag. NCRTV is a public agency I suppose? So if it is fining TV stations for airing male kisses, then that corresponds to the section title. Stop nitpicking :)) Baristarim 11:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Unsourced that it ever took place + I hate tags; there is no point in putting up a tag next to a pack of lies (written without a doubt with the purest of motives :p). See what Jimbo had to say about it . //Dirak 11:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It is not the same thing. Most of the articles on Wiki lack sources. The claims here are not as far-fetched. Tags are there for a reason when they are appropriate. A good faith thing would be to contact the regular contributors to this article to ask them to provide sources. There are many articles where I left cite tags and have been waiting for months for sources. And besides, if I were someone who hadn't been to Greece and Cyprus, I would be more convinced when you said that the claims of anti-gay discrimination is "a pack of lies" :))) Baristarim 12:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have added most of the needed references. More to come. NCRTV rerfernces can be found in NCRTV's archives. Please visit NCRTV's link to the official webpage (in Greek). I also see no need in deleting the section. A more neutral tone however is perhaps more appropriate. Readers can make their own minds.Stef79 11:18, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, you did a good job cleaning up the article! Just a quick note, it is note a very good idea to wikify the dates. I know that it is done a lot in Wikipedia, however the recent concensus is not to do so. They do not bring too much to the article, and too many blui wikilinks can disturb the eye. Cheers! Baristarim 00:59, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

a forum thread about this page (in greek)
http://www.insomnia.gr/vb3/showthread.php?t=182866 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leladax (talk • contribs) 15:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC).


 * The seer homophobic stupidity in that thread made my eyes bleed 77.83.192.145 (talk) 00:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
It seems to me that Recognition of gay unions in Greece is a subset of LGBT rights in Greece and any sourced info should be merged into here. -- Neil N   talk  ♦  contribs  00:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Support this will solve some of the conflictThright (talk) 01:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I believe the Recognition of same-sex unions in Greece article should stay, as per all other articles dealing with recogntion of same-sex unions. In order to avoid repetition, I believe that the information about same-sex unions in this article should be merged into Recognition of same-sex unions in Greece. Ronline ✉ 06:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Constitutional protection
I removed the sentence claiming that sexual orientation and, now, gender identity are protected by the Greek constitution for several reasons.

—Largo Plazo (talk) 11:19, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) I don't see anything in the Greek constitution pertaining to sexual orientation or gender identity.
 * 2) According to a report by the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, "In August 2002, the Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM) and the Minority-Rights Group-Greece (MRG-G) argued that a combination of provisions in the Greek constitution provide sexual freedom as a constitutional right (26 Aug. 2002)." In other words, there are those who claim that language found in the constitution implies a prohibition on discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity, but the constitution doesn't explicitly say so and the assertion is subject to debate. That was written in 2003, but the Greek constitution has been amended only once since then, and the 2008 amendment didn't address sexual orientation or gender identity, or any issues involving civil rights.
 * 3) The one reference that was provided in that sentence is about the hate crimes law and doesn't say anything about the constitution.

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=Suggested sources= Here's stuff with valuable info:
 * (on Golden Dawn homophobic incidents) Hula Hup (talk) 04:58, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

More sources:
 * (justice minister against same-sex marriage)
 * (MP's opinions on LGBT rights)
 * (clerics' opinions on LGBT rights) Hula Hup (talk) 06:54, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160605205106/http://www.dsanet.gr/Epikairothta/Nomothesia/n3421_05.htm to http://www.dsanet.gr/Epikairothta/Nomothesia/n3421_05.htm

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Blanking of content
User:Xylo kai Gyali, that the Hate crimes and Hate speech were in a same law doesn't make them the same. Number of laws are irrelevant in how tbese policies are evaluated and treated by the international community. Hate Speech and Hate Crimes may seem one and the same thing to inexperienced readers, however they are not, and as such, LGBTI rights organizations such as ILGA-Europe are treating them independently of each other. Please stop merging them otherwise you will leave me no other option but to report you for disruption.

As for the Gay Defence, I can understand its removal due to citations. However since this is confirmed by the Greek newspapers (Ta Nea and Proinos Typos reported on this in their reporting and covering of the Sergianopoulos Murder Case). Now we only need find these articles in their digital form. I could appreciate if you just added a CN Tag and help us finding sources instead of blanking this important information completely from the article.

Anyone who can help with finding sources, or digital versions of the aforementioned newspaper articles on Sergianopoulos case, confirming Gay Defence abolition in Greece, that will be highly appreciated, as to avoid future content blanking issues like the current one. -- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 09:42, 14 September 2017 (UTC)


 * User:SilentResident, I'm not here to vandalise. I just think we should add certain facts only when we have available references. Gay panic defense is prohibited in a few states of Australia only. Discrimination protections are not the same with the abolishment of gay panic defense. IVF and surrogacy are not legal and there's currently no debate surrounding it. Mr. Paraskeuopoulos, the minister of Justice had stated that adoption will be discussed in the future, when civil unions had been made legal. About transexuality and transvestism, that's not a decision of the state to stop regarding it a psychiatric disorder. The Greek Psychiatric Association must make this decision. And currently they have deleted only homosexuality from the list of psychiatric disorders. Please I'm not here to vandalise. Xylo kai Gyali (talk) 11:18, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand now that you have blanked the information for original research/lack of verification than for unknown status which is what you argued above. Well, let me explain it better this time to you because clearly there was a misunderstanding - when a human right policy (state laws and policies or/and local laws and policies, etc) is unknown in a country due to lack of sources that can confirm its legalized/abolished status, then it is preferred practice to have it marked as UNKNOWN than blanking it completely out of the article, which is what you have done (again and despite my warnings to you). I reverted your edits, but changed the mark from YES/NO to UNKNOWN. Please leave it alone and don't ever touch it again. If someone can help me find sources supporting/opposing this, then it will be changed accordingly (from UNKNOWN to YES or NO). I already found sources for 3 of these policies these days, but I am having troubles finding for the remainder 3. I will keep searching the net for the rest of the sources, but in meantime, please do not blank the content again. You should inform the readers that the policy's status is unknown yet than removing its mention all together from the article. Because blanking a policy is like pretending that there is no such case at all, that such a thing doesn't even exist in Greece, either legalized or abolished, which I am sure is not your intention. Furthermore, I recommend that you take disputes/disagreements to the talk page instead of edit warring as to avoid similar misunderstandings from arising in the future against you. Because as far as I can see, other editors too misunderstood you as a vandal. Generally, blanking of content in Wikipedia is not tolerated and many editors have been reported and blocked from editing due to this.
 * And check the current revision of the article to see if it looks a good workaround for until we find the sources in digital form and add them to Wikipedia. This should do for now. Have a good day. -- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 11:54, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150810091002/http://athenspride.eu/cms/1534 to http://athenspride.eu/cms/1534/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160413075957/http://athenspride.eu/archives/2881 to http://athenspride.eu/archives/2881
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140407084201/http://www.epirusbook.gr/eidiseis/eidhseis/1737-xrysoxoidis3a-synergasia-astynomias-me-ti-xrysi-aygi21.html to http://www.epirusbook.gr/eidiseis/eidhseis/1737-xrysoxoidis3a-synergasia-astynomias-me-ti-xrysi-aygi21.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110611204535/http://ilga-europe.org/home/news/latest_news/eu_attitudes_towards_same_sex_marriage_adoption_significantly_vary to http://www.ilga-europe.org/home/news/latest_news/eu_attitudes_towards_same_sex_marriage_adoption_significantly_vary
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061012062616/http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/ to http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/

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Unsure on whether this does relate to the article in any way.
EU Court Gives Same-Sex Spouses Equal Residency Rights. 

Should this be added to the article?

Note that the EU court's ruling affects Greece which is obliged to abide by it. --👧🏻 SilentResident 👧🏻 (talk ✉️ &#124; contribs 📝) 02:56, 7 June 2018 (UTC)