Talk:LGBT themes in mythology/Archive 1

Xochipili
References to homosexuality in the Xochipili article were removed due to lack of citations, so I have removed this name to the talk pages until citations can be provided. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.137.28 (talk) 03:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Readded with source.YobMod 14:34, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Expand to include historical religious same-sex practices?
Should this article be expanded to include historical religious same-sex practices? It certainly needs to be expanded beyond the Greek myths it now includes.Lasalle202 03:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * NO - clearly out of scope of article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.158.234.43 (talk) 01:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Serge & Bacchus
I added them because they were dramatized as martyrs in Christian mythology, and I trust nobody's going to accuse them of being real people and try to delete it, because many mythical figures are based on historical people, including Gilgamesh and Jonathan and David. And Serge & Bacchus' story involves mythical elements, such as one coming back from heaven to visit the other, etc.VatoFirme (talk) 03:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Seems ok by me. Haiduc (talk) 10:04, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Deities
I added several Japanese deities, both of Buddhism and Shintoism. Please wait for a while on their sources. Hadrianvs et antinovs (talk) 13:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)hadrianvs et antinovs

Greek mythologia
In "Greece", I think that "Orpheus and Calais (one of Boreads)" is better than "Orpheus and the Thracians". At least in Japan, Calais is famous as a beloved-boy of Orpheus. Hadrianvs et antinovs (talk) 02:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)hadrianvs et antinovs


 * One is good, two are better. Haiduc (talk) 13:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Amazons
How does this myth relate to GLBT issues? The Amazons rejected typical (or at least Greek) gender roles for women, but I don't think that's the same as being homosexual, transgender, or bisexual. Unless this article is intended to include transvestite stories as well? 97.116.17.199 (talk) 21:49, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The Amazons were clearly transgender in every way short of gender reassignment surgery. They lived, fought, and often dressed and loved as what ancient Greeks would consider men, full time. A transvestite is someone who cross-dresses, usually on an occasional basis, but does not live full time in the entire social role of a different gender.Markwiki (talk) 04:34, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Plato
Plato's Dialogues includes a description of the origin of human beings, love, and sex in which there was a third gender, androgyns, and all three human genders reproduced asexually. But after the gods split every human being into two halves, the males and females became pairs of homosexual soul-mates, and the androgyns became pairs of heterosexual soul-mates. This is philosophy, not necessarily "mythology" as such, so should it be mentioned in this page or not? 97.116.17.199 (talk) 22:15, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I would save Plato's Dialogues for a philosophy page since it covers humanity as a whole. Most of these entries seem directed at specific characters more so than the state of being of the entire human race.Markwiki (talk) 04:34, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Mini-lists by geography
This page as set up right now seems a little confusing. There are sections by continent above and then a general list below. Should this page maybe become one List page, such List of LGBT Characters in Myth & Religion? If that got big enough, then separate pages could be set up by geographical region.Markwiki (talk) 04:34, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm planning to overhaul this list, after which all the figures will be in the section for the relevant mythology, and it will not be so listy. Some of these will need subarticles (certainly Greco-roman, Chinese. Maybe Japanese, Egyptian).YobMod 08:58, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Spoken-word versions - audio files

 * Achilles and Patroclus
 * Apollo and Hyacinth
 * Chrysippus and Laius
 * Ganymede and Zeus
 * Heracles and Hylas
 * Narcissus
 * Orpheus
 * Pelops and Poseidon


 * Bernard Sergent, Homosexuality in Greek Myth
 * Bernard Sergent, L'homosexualité initiatique dans l'Europe ancienne
 * Andrew Calimach, Lovers' Legends: The Gay Greek Myths
 * Andrew Calimach, Lovers' Legends Unbound
 * Homosexuality and the Ancient Greeks
 * Greek Mythology The secret Greek myths of male love, ancient coming-of-age rituals, uncensored and developed.

needs citing & incorporating
A number of deities and semi-divine heroes with changing or ambiguous genders are present in Greek and Roman myths. Hermaphroditos, the son of Aphrodite and Hermes is a hermaphrodite, a term derived from his name. Phanes, is the primordial, androgynous deity of love and procreation who hatched from the World Egg during the creation of the world. Tiresias was a male prophet who was turned into a woman for 7 years. Agdistis, a Phrygian deity born with both male and female genitalia, but later castrated so that she became female. Amazons, a nation of warrior women

Atea and Fakahotu a Polynesian god and goddess who change sexes when their son dies of hunger
 * Acantha - Greek myth (bisexual)
 * Adonis - Greek myth (bisexual)
 * Attis - Greek myth (transgender)
 * Caeneus/Caenis - Greek/Roman myth (transgender)
 * Hermes/Mercury - Roman/Greek god (bisexual)
 * Leukippos/Leukippe - Greek girl, raised as a boy to hide her gender from her father, and later transformed by a goddess into a boy.
 * Pales - Roman myth (transgender- sometimes embodying male and sometimes female)
 * Virtus - Roman deity (transgender- sometimes embodying male and sometimes female)
 * Zephyrus - Greek god (bisexual)
 * Ōkuninushi (大国主) and Sukunabikona or Sukunahikona (少名毘古那神 or 少彦名神)
 * Aizen Myō-ō (愛染明王 or 愛染妙王)
 * Fudō Myō-ō (不動明王); Acala
 * Jizō, Jizō Bosatsu; Ksitigarbha (Jizō 地蔵, Jizo-o Bosatsu 地蔵菩薩)
 * Seth is also known for his sexual relationship with Ash.
 * Asiaq, in Inuit mythology, the deity of storms, generally portrayed as female, but sometimes as male
 * Shai, god/goddess of fate.