Talk:LGBT writers in the Dutch-language area

article name
Should it be LGBT writers from de Lage Landen instead of what it is now? SarahStierch (talk) 19:45, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * De Lage Landen (=The Low Countries) is ambiguous while it may include Wallonia, or Wallonia and Luxembourg (see Low Countries article). So in the lede it has to be narrowed down to Flanders and the Netherlands, which can't be done in the page title alone.
 * "Nederlands taalgebied" is what I had in mind (the concept for this in Dutch), which is translated in Dutch-language area (I think?)
 * Note that one of the authors on the page is also from overseas Dutch-speaking area (former colony of the Netherlands), living part of her life in the Netherlands. --Francis Schonken (talk) 19:52, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * The expression the Dutch-language area  sounds very awkward to my ears. I think there's a problem with any of these formulations (in the Dutch-language area, from de Lage Landen, from Flanders and the Netherlands, Nederlands taalgebied, Low Countries) in that they all talk about a geographic area. Certainly, a geographic area that corresponds to, or is even defined by, a primary language corresonding to it. But geographic, nevertheless. Words like francophone or germanophone are clear, but an analogous term for Dutch-speaking does not exist in English.
 * If I am reading your intent correctly, you mean to say, "LGBT writers who write in Dutch", regardless whether they currently reside there, or were born there. "Dutch LGBT writers" wouldn't be quite right because that would imply citizenship; or would it? An interesting parallel is the use of "French literature" vs. "Francophone literature" in English. This parallels the use of "fr:Littérature française" vs. "fr:Littérature francophone" (the latter a redirect to a more common expression).
 * But note the contrast, in French at least, where "fr:Littérature néerlandaise" includes Dutch writing from the Low Countries as well as from ex-colonies around the world. However, "Dutch literature" would not mean that in English, or at least, it would be ambiguous what it meant. Indeed, on en-wiki, that is a redirect to "Dutch-language literature", which gives a clue for a solution. In contrast to anglophone, francophone, hispanophone which describe language rather than geography, the terms néerlandophone or hollandophone in French are unusual enough to come up in French language forums discussing whether the words exist or not, and in English they are even rarer, I believe.
 * So, what to do in English? I find either "LGBT writers in Dutch" or "Dutch-language LGBT writers" adequate, WP:PRECISE enough, and not ambiguous, without specifying where the writer is from, where they reside, or what their citizenship was. Mathglot (talk) 05:15, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Afaics that is not the way to go. The topic of this article is:
 * LGBT writers in the Nederlands taalgebied
 * It boils down to finding an appropriate rendering of the Dutch-language expression (or an appropriate equivalent) in an English-language article title. Why "gebied" (= area) and not just the language of the writings is because that's what by-and-large the usable sources do, that is: those sources that give an overview of the cultural phenomenon. Too many of the writers who form the topic of this article don't write in Dutch, while they are part of this cultural development. At least, that is the prevalent treatment in reliable sources. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:22, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

However, note the section below, which needs to be resolved, before this question about a disputed title is even addressed. Mathglot (talk) 05:51, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The focus or topic conforms to what the focus or topic is in reliable sources. I wouldn't want to redefine the focus of this article without a body of reliable sources supporting it. So, unless reliable sources on this cultural phenomenon with a different focus can be pointed to I'd keep the focus as is. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:22, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

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Unfocused
What is this article about? Is the article about LGBT writers in the Low Countries writing in any language, or about Dutch-language LGBT authors writing anywhere? The lead seems to imply the latter, but inclusion of Eekhoud writing in French, seems to imply the former. The resolution of what the article is about, has to precede any decision about what the title should be. Mathglot (talk) 05:51, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The focus (or topic) of this article is:
 * LGBT writers in the Nederlands taalgebied
 * (see also explanations above in ). That's what reliable sources do. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:30, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

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