Talk:LOT Polish Airlines Flight 007

Wrestling team
Article needs some more detail on "the entire US amateur boxing team" - does this mean the Olympic team? Is there a central organization in the US for amateur boxing; do they have a team; and the article should have a link to this organization if so. Tempshill (talk) 16:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Although it wasn't a wrestling team, I agree with the point made and removed the "entire" from the article. Dr. Dan (talk) 18:18, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

March 14, 1980 -- 14 members of the U.S. amateur boxing team when the jet they were on crashed while attempting to land in Warsaw. Junior Robles was my Uncle. http://usaboxing.org/news/2010/03/15/usa-boxing-remembers-the-victims-of-the-1980-plane-crash/34586 William Balint 98.206.222.240 (talk) 16:58, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrong Engine Type
SP-LAA was equipped with four Kuznetsov NK-8-4 engines (not Soloviev D-30KU). Since this accident was triggered by an uncontained engine failure, it is extremely important to sort this out. The totally unrelated reference to the Cubana Il-62M with D-30KU engines should be removed as well. --The Sim (talk) 20:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Unclearly written "The engine shaft’s explosive disintegration" section
This secton is written in a peculiar style, that does not contribute to a clear understanding and could also contain some inexactitudes; I will give some examples: It says: "In the Kuznetsov NK-8 jet engine, air is sucked from the front of the engine..." Any aircraft gas turbine receives the inlet air in the same way, so it is unproper to refer this description to the specific model of the engine.

Then it uses a vague term like: "ultra high pressure gases exit the rear of the combustion chamber..." What is to be meant as "ultra high pressure"? It would be better to just refer to them as "High pressure combustion gases" since the pressure level is not above the so called "high pressure" compressor, or "high Pressure" turbine; since it appears that this engine has two section compressors, two (concentric) shafts, and two turbine sections; which are differenciated by the "low" and "high" terms. Could it be that on this engine the fan section could be understood as a first compressor section?, but that is not usual in common descriptions of aircraft engines in technical english. (A simplified engine drawing can be seen at: http://www.leteckemotory.cz/motory/nk-8/index.php which shows a two section compressor.

Inexact description: "Because the engine combustion chamber was still producing power..." The combustion chamber does not exactly produce power, it produces an increase in gas quantity resulting from the combustion chemical reaction, and more importantly, a considerable temperature increase in the gasses, which increases their volume (flow), and this change is what produces the power when these gasses flow trough the turbine sections. It is the inertia of the compressor assembly which kept the engine rotating and maintained the pressure and flow for some time after the shaft failed. But how the turbine disc failed and exploded, which is the key part of the article, is not described properly. Someone with proper knowledge of the sequence of failure could improve the description of this? Could someone provide a decent drawing of the engine in question, so that we all can see how the suspected shaft is suspended, and where was the location of the shaft rupture? Amclaussen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.141.227.198 (talk) 20:47, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Statements requiring clarification
This entry makes statements that vary somewhat from cited information presented on other wikipedia sites about LOT and Ilyushin planes:

1. LOT Polish Airlines initiated their transatlantic routes in early 1970s. The officials decided to purchase the newly introduced Ilyushin Il-62.

The IL-62 first flight was 1963 and it was introduced early 1967. Regular transAtlantic LOT flights only began in 1973.

2. Many years later it was revealed that after Flight 007's crash, all Il-62s used by Russian officials and VIPs had their engines discreetly replaced with newer ones.

This was during the time that Aeroflot was carrying out its planned upgrade program to replace the NK-8-4 engines of its original IL-62s with the more powerful D-30 (they had 165 planes). As far as I know, this program began years earlier and all civilian aircraft were upgraded.

3. At one occasion, Polish governmental Il-62M had had specially installed newer engines for a joint Polish-Russian governmental trip to Beijing; after that, the engines were taken back to the USSR.

I couldn't find any record of IL-62Ms ever being used as Polish government transports, although they were used by a number of other countries in that role. The Polish government used two TU-154s (one of which crashed in 2010 at Smolensk). Any engine upgrade would have been to D-30s as per the program.

4. The Polish commission report also called for some modernizations in the Il-62 project, most notably doubling the flight controls, so that if one system failed the plane would still be controllable. At the time, redundant controls of this kind were in general use in American and European-made airliners.

Many IL-62Ms did/do have dual controls (although the original base model was single control).

5. This issue was never addressed by the Russians; none of their Ilyushins of all types had installed an alternate controls.

The other Ilyushin airliners (IL-86 - first flight 1976) and the IL-96 both have multi-control systems, being hydraulic rather than manual.

6. This could partially be attributed to a grudge Russian engineers held against Poles, who purchased their Ilyushins but replaced their radionavigational systems with separately purchased, more modern American ones.)

If this was true the Russians must have held grudges against numerous countries because many of the 42 airlines in over 20 countries which have operated the IL-62 modified their planes in some manner so as to suit their requirements. This includes Cuba, Germany and Czechoslovakia. Some Russian IL-62s have systems from other countries (the EMERCOM plane has Honeywell electronics, and many civilian Russian IL-62s have retro-fitted western audio systems etc).

Finally, it should perhaps be noted somewhere that the engine that failed had reportedly caused unusual vibration problems when previously installed on two other LOT IL-62s before it was fitted to SP-LAA (although an inherent fault wasn't identified at the time). As LOT didn't have facilities to remove or test IL-62 powerplants, the planes were run to their allocated flight hours and had to be flown back to Russia for engine re-fitting. The problem with such a system was that if a potential problem was present (eg an assembly/manufacturing fault) or developed in service (due to wear and tear), it would not always be noticed. After 1987, turbine vibration equipment was used to test turbines at regular intervals. maxzden Apr 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maxzden (talk • contribs) 18:28, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

A documentary about SP-LBG crash mentioned a visit of members of Polish government in Beijing. Polish government had only a pair of Tu-134's at that time and their range was too short, so they decided to use one of LOT's Il-62's instead. That plane was fitted with selected engines which could only be used during this flight and they had to be returned to Soviet Union after the flight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rynek (talk • contribs) 20:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Some rewrites
Added some details about the incident itself, as well as about the aftermath. Most of the information come from a Polish documentary about the crash - many original photos, documents shown, witnesses interviewed. Because most details come from this single source, I didn't add any inline citations - I'll made corrections if necessary. --Piotr Strzyz (talk) 15:31, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

The improperly machined engine shaft
Was this a machining error or a design error? (And wouldn't it be an inspection error, anyway, if the machinist did not follow the design?) Fotoguzzi (talk) 02:03, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The captain's last heroic action
The article says that the captain used his ailerons to steer his plane away from a juvenile correctional facility. I don't understand how the investigators found about this, seeing as how power to the black boxes was cut during flight's final moments.76.6.156.192 (talk) 03:21, 1 November 2013 (UTC)


 * They knew the complete trajectory of the plane in its last moments; it would be obvious if the plane took a last-second course diversion. The force of an impact can force things against each other leaving marks indicating position at time of the impact. And they would have know what the captain had left at that time, and could logically conclude that it must have been the ailerons because the other stuff wasn't working. It's possible that they could have told who did it, and it would be pretty obvious that it was done and by using the ailerons.
 * Which is not an endorsement of the uncited statement; I don't know anything about this particular accident. I just don't find it particularly unlikely that that could have been discovered by investigators.--Prosfilaes (talk) 17:27, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

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Flight Number Question
Why was this article given a single-digit flight number? The flight number has three digits (007). And003 (talk) 22:16, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Exactly, even I have the same question. I can't exactly move the page cause I need to be an admin. I absolutely do not support page moves which originally had leading zeroes and were removed for no reason unless they never had it from the start such as LOT Polish Airlines Flight 16.KlientNo.1 (talk) 09:19, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 26 October 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 09:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

LOT Polish Airlines Flight 7 → LOT Polish Airlines Flight 007 – I don't understand why this page was moved in the first place. From LOT Polish Airlines Flight 007 to LOT Flight 7 and to LOT Polish Airlines Flight 7. The original title was already fine. The common name was with the zeroes and all Polish sources define it. And the flight number had three digits. KlientNo.1 (talk) 06:38, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, however I'm confused by this move? Where are you attempting to fix the redirect issue? Tigger Jay&thinsp; (talk)  16:17, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but I couldn't understand your question. KlientNo.1 (talk) 03:19, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support per nominator. MilborneOne (talk) 07:21, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

plane crash
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