Talk:La Clandestine Absinthe

Comments
Comments welcome. This was suggested on the main Absinthe Talk Page some while back, so I thought I'd make a start.

No Source?
This article has been marked as "no source." I have no problem on adding sources, but I am wary of turning this page into advertising. I'd appreciate community comments on the following as possible sources:

"Popular" - justified since

1. La Clandestine is the only absinthe sold on every vendor site that is recommended by the two major absinthe forums/information site.

2. It is the first brand mentioned on the Wormwood Society list of recommended brands.

3. Out of several hundred absinthes, it was rated 3rd most popular in a poll of c. 20 absintheurs on Wormwood Society.

4. The most popular absinthe brand on MySpace with over 750 friends.

These may seem like advertising to some, but they support the word "popular."

"Launched in 2005" - from a legal viewpoint true; in line with the date of legalisation of absinthe in Switzerland. I guess I could add that.

"Said to be based on 1935 recipe," "circulating unofficially," "one of the first distillers to get a licence:" all claims come directly from the brand website. I can provide direct links from the article to the relevant website pages. 2nd and 3rd quotes can be independently backed up (some from French language sites).

Comments, please. I'll add most of these unless people comment that I shouldn't. Alanmoss 05:06, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Point 1: You need a secondary source that cites that, not your own synthesis of it. Find a source that actually states "La clandestine is the only ....." LOOKING FOR THIS. Point 2: Does first mean best? That seems irrelevant, but it's sourceable so I don't see why that would stay out. ADDED REFERENCE WITH COMMENT. Point 3: seems OK, but we'll reserve judgement. ADDED TO EXTERNAL LINKS Point 4: Irrelevant, and unusable as a source anyway. &rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  05:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

As for Launched in....add in what you had. ADDED

As for the claims from the brand website, you should mention those as "The website claims that it is....", AND source it with a link to where it says that". ADDED

&rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  05:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Various sources and references added: SEE CAPITALS ABOVE for easier reference Is this now OK? Alanmoss 06:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Significantly better. If you can find some references for some of the other things (for example the part about how you can drink it, i.e. over sugar etc) it would be even better, but it's definitely much better than it was before. &rArr;   SWAT Jester    Denny Crane.  06:59, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Who is "aunt charlotte"? After following the source link I get a screen that states "You are not authorized to view this resource." Even though I am "logged in" (the first requirement prior to me being "not authorized"). This needs to be rectified with their site or the reference needs to be removed from wikipedia, since this source cannot be confirmed. Also, I'm not sure if the "traditional" vs the without sugar is necessary.Studiofox 23:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Charlotte Vaucher. I have suggested to the website owner that this link should be sorted. Re. "no sugar:" this is a distinctive feature of many Swiss absinthes. Alanmoss 06:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Do we have a time when the website will be sorted out? Also, I might go through and clean up some wording (no edits, just better read). Studiofox 22:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No idea when the website is being "sorted out" (assuming you are referring to the Charlotte Vaucher link).

I don't think you have improved all of the points. You say: "According to the manufacturer, La Clandestine that is served without sugar is preferred." By who? The previous edit was substantive: it said that the distiller recommends it without sugar, and gives a source.

Personally I find the phrase "Based off of a 1935 recipe" very clumsy and it's certainly not good English from an Englishman's viewpoint. To avoid my personal bias, I did a google search of the terms "bases on a recipe" (43,400 results) and "based off of a recipe" (3,330 results). I suggest that "based on ..." is a much wider used phrase. Alanmoss 05:14, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

So I changed it back to "Based on."

"Based on" is fine. "not good English from an Englishman's viewpoint." would that be King's English? (sorry, couldn't resist) I do like it better than "Based off of..." Studiofox 03:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

"Based on a 1935 recipe by Swiss distiller Charlotte Vaucher": I think the article would be greatly improved if there was serious information about this person. I cannot find any link at all today, but rather just a short statement on the official website:

"A friend of mine gave me an old recipe from his aunt Charlotte - a well-known distiller - that she had been using since 1935 to distil high quality absinthe with a special richness in flavor and a nice bitterness"

Can anyone see the name Vaucher mentioned? Any idea why the history of this person cannot be in the public domain? This info is now gone from the official website, whether you are authorised or not, I think that is a pity. RedSalmon 14:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, we need to get the identity of "Charlotte" hammered down. I don't really care who this "Charlotte" is but it needs to get fixed and/or removed until an adequate source can be provided. Studiofox 03:42, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I contacted the distiller and owner of the website. It was a link to a page that he had never put up: apparently he does have a photo of the lady in question and I suggested he could put that on the website. The brand website now states "Charlotte Vaucher." If Studiofox feels the brand website is not an adequate source, he could change the article to state "Apparently based on.... " or "Based, according to the brand website, on ..." Alanmoss 05:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

It's fine for now. My only qualm was with the link sending you to a dead page with no way to access the actual information. Studiofox 22:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

File this under "Grr Argh": I think I got an edit down that satisfies everyone for the moment, however, I noticed that the link to the article referencing the Swiss legalization of absinthe is not available now. This is probably due to the WS site redesign but it should be remedied nonetheless. I'll look around for another "more permanent" link to the article. Studiofox 20:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with you about satisfying everyone.

1. Claude-Alan Bugnon is not NOW an underground distiller, so the latest revision does him a disservice. 2. "Following the lift" sounds a bit clumsy. 3. That WW Soc article from the NYT is on the San Francisco Chronicle website somewhere. I'll try to find it. Alanmoss 00:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Prize Overkill
This page reads like a ham-fisted online ad:

"La Clandestine Absinthe is a popular [1], prize-winning [2],

"It was this absinthe which won the Golden Spoon award at the Pontarlier Absinthiades in 2005 and 2006"

"the Golden Spoon winner for the second consecutive year"

"Winner of the Best Label and Presentation for all Spirits and Absinthe Gold Medal Winner"

Wow! It would be a challenge to see if anyone could squeeze in another mention of "prize winning" into the text.

RedSalmon 11:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair point. I believe this "overkill" may be the result of others asking for comments to be sourced. I'll have a look at it and see what I can do. Alanmoss 05:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I removed the Best Label award. Alanmoss 05:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

In response to a new comment about the article looking like an advertisement, I have removed two links to the shop site (they now go to the brand site instead). Any other comments on how we could make this article look less like an advertisement? We toned it down between us over a year ago. Alanmoss (talk) 06:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

USA Version?
In June 2008, the US Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau approved La Clandestine for sale in the United States.[5] when u click the link the doc says that "The finished product must be "Thujone-free" Does this mean that there are two kinds of this absinthe, one for Swiss and one for America? If this is the case, shouldn't the article should say so...or is it exactly the same product? Montyzoomer (talk) 11:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The odd language the government chose is explained a bit in the absinthe article (I think) In the US "thujon free" means 10 mg/L thujone or less. So if Clandestine fit that number before (also an EU requirement without added labeling) then it will be the same product. -- Ari (talk) 16:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. So is it the same or not? I've googled a bit and found this on a website called FeeVert: I find the Nouvelle Orleans news particularly interesting, especially since its thujone content tested at well over 20ppm some time ago. That does not answer the question about La Caldestine though which is talked about as well. I'm writing an article about it and the info is very confusing.Montyzoomer (talk) 09:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Advertisement alert
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Conversation conclusion
Unnecessary information about prizes has been removed and the tag is to be removed. The distillery of La Clandestine is also to be checked on wikiscanner for having made any edits to this page. Main arguments:

The page overstresses prizes and styles and lacks important information. I have placed the tag because this page repeatedly stresses the awards and lacks any substantial information, --Ipatrol (talk) 19:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
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The awards were mentioned because someone asked for justification of the word "prize winning." But no problem to reduce any undue emphasis.

I will change the Wormwood Society result too ("third most popular"). Alanmoss (talk) 21:04, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

In terms of more substantial information, would it be relevant to add that it has now been launched in the USA by the importers of Lucid (America's first absinthe)? Also to add that according to the brand website it is now available in 11 countries? Alanmoss (talk) 21:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Added standard beverage infobox to bring in line with other beverage page formats. Removed repetition of the different styles.

I believe it is now quite bland, factual and not really like an advertisement. No reference as on the brand website to being "hand-crafted in the birthplace of absinthe." As written above, I could add the "substantial information" about 11 different countries and the US importers, but maybe others would see THAT as being advertising. Let me know. Alanmoss (talk) 08:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, I will remove the tag as now we have a factual encyclopedia article. I will also check wikiscanner to see if the distillery has been tampering with the page.--Ipatrol (talk) 21:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC) P.S from Ipatrol: the distillary did not edit this page according to Wikiscanner, though you came up as having used the computer of Rogers Cable Communications Inc. in Mississauga, Ontario. Have you been using your boss's computer? ;)

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