Talk:La Salle Extension University

Alumni notability
This article is very long and unencyclopedic. Per precedent on other lists like this, I created a subpage called List of La Salle Extension University people. The people listed in this article should only be the most notable alumni and faculty. Please do not add people unless there is already an article about them, and add a reliable source indicating they were affiliated with this school. Jokestress (talk) 03:27, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Original research
This article has been a long-running point of contention between LSEU graduates and their supporters vs. detractors of the school and its graduates. Some of this appears to be based on off-Wiki arguments imported here. There is a lot of original research such as calling state offices and sourcing from unofficial alumni organizations that fail to meet Wikipedia's standards for reliable sources. I am slowly going to do what I did with the alumni section and strip out anything that isn't both notable and supported by a reliable source. Jokestress (talk) 16:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Off-wiki discussions are not reliable sources. They can, however, put an editor's mind at ease as to the facts linked to reliable sources. In effect, they can serve as corroborating evidence to the editor. But they can't be used in articles. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Unconfirmed information
I'm moving all the unsourced information here for discussion:


 * The Veterans Administration funded scholarships for US military personnel to attend LSEU under the 1944 G.I. Bill of Rights. Many qualified military and civilian students of the University accepted full Pell Grants as authorized by the US Dept. of Education.


 * The last known director of the La Salle Law School was Dr. Charles B. Marshall.


 * Around 1978, LSEU moved from downtown Chicago, Illinois to Wilmette, Illinois, approximately 20 miles north, on the site of the National Register Publishing Company, MacMillan Directory Division, 3002-3004 Glenview Road. At the time, the La Salle Extension had branch locations across the U.S. including one in Detroit, Michigan and another in downtown Manhattan, N.Y. at 5th Ave. & E. 41st Street.


 * Colleges such as the University of Wisconsin have ruled that distance law study programs are adequate preparation for continued studies in the legal academics, and have accepted students on that basis.


 * Macmillan continued to operate other degree programs at Wilmette, Illinois and Detroit until 2000.


 * According to degree.net, at the time of the LSEU buy-out, the university had over 120,000 enrolled students.


 * Macmillan continued to operate other degree programs at Wilmette, Illinois and Detroit until 2000.


 * The law program was not deprecated by the FTC until May 12, 1986.

If you have sources for any of these statements, please add them back with sources. Jokestress (talk) 20:28, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Dates of operation and other locations
The Bear guide cited in the article says LSEU was in operation until 1982. The newspaper articles say the school was originally at 41st and Michigan, then in the Loop. Any other dates and locations are not sourced, so I have removed them until we have sourcing. Feel free to add any sources for further discussion below. Jokestress (talk) 00:32, 26 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Since when does Bear Guide become the sole conclusive source for information about colleges and universities? I thought that the US Department of Education, Office of Post Secondary Education, Closed Schools and respective State Boards of Educations  (for older colleges and universities) serve as primary sources of information?  Bear Guide is produced by John Bear, Ph.D., and Mariah Bear, M.A.  Their guide while helpful is not scholarly, or exhaustive. So why is it relied upon????  User:Dmadzelanedgov


 * This article has become so unscholarly and so inaccurate as to require a complete re-writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmadzelanedgov (talk • contribs) 02:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The Bear Guide is not the sole conclusive source. If you have other published sources that are verifiable and reliable, we can use those, too. Information on LSEU does not seem to appear on the federal ed.gov site or on the Illinois State Board of Education site. I don't see any US Department of Education publications with LSEU information, though I did find and add some information from the Federal Trade Commission. We can always add more sources if they are verifiable and reliable, but we can't add anything that isn't backed up with a proper source. That's policy. Jokestress (talk) 03:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The US Dept. of Education recognizes the Distance Education and Training Council (DETC) as an authorized national accrediting agency; LSEU was, in fact, accredited by the DETC (known at the time as the Nat'l Home Study Council[NHSC]). I have in my possession official letters to that effect from the USDOE and DETC. Stan Battles (talk) 23:42, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Epstein and Fay
Epstein does not support the statement that LSEU was in operation until 2000, nor does he support a purported connection to University of Chicago. Epstein was quoting text from this Wikipedia article that has been removed because it was not sourced. Fay does not support a University of Chicago connection, either. In fact, Epstein states of the Fay dissertation: "There is no mention of any relationship or connection between the University of Chicago and La Salle Extension University." Sources:


 * Epstein, David G. (Autumn 2008). A surprising book. Reviewing James Parker Hall, Ed., American Law & Procedure (La Salle Extension University 1910). The Green Bag, Vol. 12, #1


 * Fay, Maureen Anne (March 1976). Origins and Early Development of the University of Chicago Extension Division, 1892-1911 (March 1976, Publication Number AAT T25941).

I will remove this shortly. Jokestress (talk) 04:34, 28 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Andrea, FYI: There is a published list of over 70 adjunct university instructors, including several dozen that were affiliated with the University of Chicago and other colleges, who wrote for LSEU or taught LSEU courses. Without objection, I should like to locate the list and include it as a "source" in the article. Stan Battles (talk) 23:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Prof. Epstein noted that James Parker Hall, Dean of the University of Chicago Law Shool, was the chief editor of "American Law and Procedure, the 14-volume legal encyclopedia used in LSEU's LL.B. course. IMO, this is a very strong connection between the two schools. 98.174.198.66 (talk) 00:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * If it is a reliable source per Wikipedia policies, we can include it. If it is self-published or not a reliable source, we can't include it. Let's discuss it here before you add it. What is the publication info for the list? Jokestress (talk) 19:42, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

ed.gov
User:Dmadzelanedgov keeps adding the ed.gov site, asserting that it contains published information that LSEU was in operation until 2000. However, the ed.gov URL supplied does not support this statement. The page given is:


 * http://www.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/PEPS/

Unless an exact page on the ed.gov site displays the statement that LSEU was in operation until 2000, this source is not acceptable. If there is a Department of Education publication that contains the information, we can use that, but it must be something that other editors can check themselves to confirm. I will continue to remove it until there is an acceptable source to back it up. As it stands, we have a published source that says it closed in 1982. Any book, news article, or acceptable source with other information is welcome, but it needs to specifically state dates of operation. Jokestress (talk) 15:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Alleged William Rainey Harper/University of Chicago connection
User:Dmadzelanedgov has added the following statement:


 * "Early in its history, La Salle Extension University was aided by pioneering role of Willian Rainey Harper (founder of the University of Chicago) and aided by its Extension Division."

Source is the unpublished Fay dissertation mentioned in the Epstein above. As Epstein notes of the Fay dissertation, "There is no mention of any relationship or connection between the University of Chicago and La Salle Extension University."

Harper's essay "Future of the small college" was reprinted on pages 164-185 of the 1909 textbook Business Administration, published for La Salle by the founder's DeBower-Chapline Company. It was originally published prior to the founding of LSEU. Beyond reprinting the article, I have been unable to find any evidence that Harper or University of Chicago were connected with La Salle. The essay itself, available online under public domain on Google Books, makes no mention of LSEU, since it was first published before the school existed.

I suspect some confusion may arise from the phrase "La Salle Extension University of Chicago," sometimes used to describe LSEU, and a separate program, the "University of Chicago — University Extension Division." Adult extension courses in the liberal arts were first conceived at University of Chicago, and Chapline may have been influenced by this development. However, there appears to be no organizational connection between LSEU and University of Chicago. It makes sense that Chapline would have wished to suggest a connection, and that may have influenced his decision to locate LSEU close to the University of Chicago campus, but I have found no evidence of any official connection. It's not supported by the source provided. Jokestress (talk) 16:27, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a published list of over 70  adjunct university instructors, including several dozen that were affiliated with the University of Chicago and other colleges, who wrote for LSEU or taught LSEU courses. Stan Battles (talk) 23:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

WP:ANI
Following the incident report archived here, this article was protected through December 6. A list of involved editors and possible IPs and sockpuppets was compiled in case further action was needed. The unsourced assertions about date of closure and degrees offered have been removed. Please provide a source when adding any future statements of fact. Jokestress (talk) 19:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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ephemera
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:La_Salle_University_Mailing_Envelope.jpg  Mailing Envelope of La Salle University, approx 1930?, 20 x 27 cm Velocipedus (talk)  — Preceding undated comment added 19:12, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

La Salle extension university, Railway traffic, maps and letters written by Asa Colton in March 1914.
Will there be any interest in requiring these objects? 2604:3D08:F07B:9280:40A3:1042:EBA2:2B17 (talk) 15:17, 28 September 2023 (UTC)