Talk:La traviata

Un di, felice, eterea
I removed the lyrics to "Un di, felice, eterea" and placed them in an article of their own, as I belive that they do not belong on the page about the opera.

Arias
Could it be convenient to add original titles of arias, being the way they are sung?

Setting
The program notes for the Metropolitan Opera's production of La Traviata say: In La Traviata he (Verdi) took on for the first - and only - time a contemporary play in contemporary dress...It was some time, however, before Verdi's "modern-dress" idea was put into practice. Scores up to 1914 continued to specify "about 1700." In 1896 Bernard Shaw wrote of a sight "familiar to every opera-goer.... Violetta in the latest Parisian confections and Alfredo in full Louis XIV fig." Should this be incorporated into the article?MHarris 04:21, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Stiffelio is set in the early 1800s, so wasn't too far away from being contemporary. --GuillaumeTell 22:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Section on "Structure"
I've temporarily removed the following to this talk page because it seems rather redundant given the information contained in the Synopsis. However, please don't take this to mean that I view this information as useless for the article; rather, I'd like to promote a discussion on how we might better re-incorporate the material back into the article. (Perhaps we might find a way to include a listing of the musical "numbers" alongside the synopsis of each act?) -- Todeswalzer | Talk 20:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * WikiProject Opera/Article styles and formats already addresses this issue by giving two examples, one of which is where there is both the original language and the English translation: See: Un ballo in maschera.
 * So, the way to achieve this is by incorporating these "numbers" into to the synopsis itself. Some specific arias are already in place: e.g. Un di felice.  So, a lot of this is unnecessary duplication, as demonstrated by the items below which are struck out .  In any case, scene locations are already described.
 * The "numbers" list is redundant, since it is generally obvious, although they could be named as such within the brackets (bold faced for emphasis here only): e.g.
 * (Cavatina: Violetta: Ah, fors'è lui  – "Ah, perhaps he is the one"). But she concludes that she needs freedom to live her life (Cabaletta: Violetta: Sempre libera  – "Always free").
 * Many opera articles are structured in this way. Viva-Verdi (talk) 21:42, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Structure
Act 1

Violetta's home. Ensemble of the guests.
 * Drinking song -- Brindisi, Alfredo and Violetta: Libiamo ne' lieti calici -- "Let's drink from the happy goblets"
 * Alfredo and Violetta's duet: Un di, felice, eterea -- "That day I've never forgotten"
 * Chorus: Si ridesta in ciel l'aurora -- "The dawn reawakens in the sky"
 * Scene and aria of Violetta: É strano -- "It is strange"
 * Ah, forse lui -- "Perhaps he is the one" and Sempre libera -- "Always free"

Act II

At a country house.
 * Alfredo's scene: Lunge da lei per me non v'ha diletto -- "Far from her there's no joy"
 * Aria: De miei bollenti spiriti -- "Of my ardent spirit"
 * Scene and duet, Violetta, Germont's father: Madamigella Valery?
 * Pura siccome un angelo, Iddio mi dié una figlia -- "Pure as an angel, God gave me a daughter"
 * Scene, Violetta, Alfredo: Che fai? -- "What are you doing?"
 * Scene of Alfredo and aria of Germont: Di Provenza il mar, il suol -- "Of Provence the sea, the land"

Act III

(Often played as the second scene of Act II.) At Flora's house.
 * Scene and masked gipsy chorus: Noi siamo zingarelle -- "We are gipsy girls"
 * Chorus of bull-fighters: Di Madride noi siam mattadori -- "From Madrid we are matadors"
 * Scene between Violetta, Germont and Alfredo. Violetta: Questa donna conoscete? -- "Do you know this woman?"

Act IV

Bedchamber of Violetta.
 * Scene between Violetta, Annina and physician. Violetta reads the letter of Germont. Addio del passato -- "Farewell! past days of joy"
 * Scene and duet, Violetta, Alfredo: Oh mia Violetta, oh joy -- "Oh, my Violetta, oh joy" and Parigi, o cara, noi lasceremo -- "Paris, oh dear one, we will leave"
 * Aria, Violetta: Gran Dio! non posso -- "Great God, I cannot"
 * Finale, Germont, Violetta, Alfredo, with Violetta's death.

"Allegorical reference to the fallen angel" - Relevance?
Here's the section in the present text: The title "La traviata" means literally The Woman Who Strayed, or perhaps more figuratively, The fallen One, an allegorical reference to the fallen angel, "Satan".

I could be wrong, but I don't think that one can apply a direct allegory to Satan here. "Fallen One", yes, but maybe we're overinterpreting?


 * Wildly, so. It's absurd. The word "traviata" doesn't even mean 'fallen', since it refers to drifting/straying not falling. Paul B 17:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Setting again
The original audience appears to have been puzzled by the fact that the opera had a contemporary setting. This seems inconsistent with the statement in the synopsis that "Many modern producers of La traviata set the opera in the 19th century.", and its implication that earlier producers did not. HenryFlower 15:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --GuillaumeTell 22:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

1983 movie
I utterly fail to see why the 1983 movie should not be listed in the section "Films and other versions" and is instead included in a list that otherwise includes only audio recordings. I especially utterly fail to see why User:Whjayg is edit-warring to keep it that way. When I first made this change, I did so because I thought there was no reference to the Zeffirelli film at all on this page, because there was no reference to it in the only logical place to look for it. —Angr 04:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps if you looked at Selected recordings properly, the DVD has been added in there from long ago - that is to answer to your REMARK "I did so because I thought there was no reference to the Zeffirelli film at all on this page". Why do we have to have a redundant infomation? FYI, the film was made in 1982. Thanks - Jay (talk) 04:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Secondly, I undid your changes for adding "Audio" in the "Selected recordings" with remark "We discussed before making changes". It is because (1) the header is our standard header for all the opera articles (2)Because we have DVD and VHS listed in there too. So you cant call it "AUDIO" only. Ps- I used "we" to refer to WikiProject_Opera - Jay (talk) 05:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, clearly no one discussed it before on this page. If you're going to lump audio and video recordings together, then do so, and don't have a separate section for films, and then not allow what is probably the best-known film of the opera to be included in that section. —Angr 18:03, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, according to http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084821/releaseinfo it was released in 1983, not 1982. —Angr 05:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Gosh, you just dont know when to stop, dont you? I said "FYI, the film was made in 1982" (READ UP), not RELEASED!! If you must know, the "YEAR" at "Selected recording" are based on the "actual year" since most of them are LIVE ACTING on stage. Most of opera DVDs or CDs (any operas) were released years after they were performed - tht is why we dont go by "released year"! - Jay (talk) 05:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Gosh, you just don't know you don't OWN this article, do you? Films are always dated by their year of release, and this one is not live acting on stage. Wikipedia's own article on the movie (you know, the article you keep removing links to) calls it a "1983 film" for that very reason. Do you have a reliable source saying the movie was made in 1982, or do you just assume it because it was released in February 1983? —Angr 05:59, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Refer below especially Zeffirelli's page and the the 2nd, review

- Jay (talk) 06:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * http://www.filmreference.com/film/76/Franco-Zeffirelli.html
 * http://www.jamesweggreview.org/reviews/filmdvdvideo/la_traviata.html
 * http://www.amazon.com/Verdi-Traviata-Levine-Stratas-Domingo/dp/0783227477
 * http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1021955-verdi_la_traviata/

Modern-day influences
Surely the similarities between La Traviata and Moulin Rouge should be mentioned? And I'm sure there are plenty of other stories following a similar story line? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.60.45 (talk) 10:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No, Moulin Rouge is loosely based on La Boheme, not Traviata. 207.237.33.106 (talk) 08:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Variations
In Romania, in the final act, before meeting Alfredo, Violetta collapses to the floor and men and women wearing masks from the ball in Act II sing some puzzling aria of the Great Ox being in the streets of Paris. The lighting flickers and Annina presents Alfredo. However, he is wearing a white translucent cloak, as is his father and Gastone (who enter the stage at a later time). When she finally dies (after stating that she feels much better), they do not react. I think this hints to the fact that when Violetta collapses, she starts having illusions of what she wants most (Alfredo, the blessing of his father and to get well). Sadly, they are not real, but at least she made peace with herself. I'd like to know if this is a variation of the original opera and, if not, maybe the synopsis should be changed to reflect that 89.122.248.132 (talk) 20:37, 8 A)pril 2009 (UTC)


 * This sounds like some dreadful Euro-trash production nonsense. People wearing translucent cloaks are not a part of Verdi's librettist's notion of this opera. Viva-Verdi (talk) 22:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Addio del passato
In the article, the famous aria is mentioned as (quote) Addio del passato – "So closes my sad story" (unquote). This is obviously misleading as it is in no way an accurate translation or even a rephrasing of the aria's lyrics. It obviously has to do with the fact that the three words "addio del passato" are not a full phrase and do not mean anything on their own. I suggest it is changed to: Addio del passato bei sogni ridenti - "Farewell to the happy dreams of the past". Unless someone objects soon, I will have it incorporated. (Desiderius82 (talk) 10:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC))

traviata definition
Traviata does not "literally" mean fallen woman, though it may mean that figuratively. The word is from the verb traviare, wich means to mislead. Traviata means literally, one who has been mislead. Violetta refers to herself as a traviata, just once, right after she has read Germont's letter in the final act.She is describing herself as a fallen, misguided woman in general, but also specifically as wrongly advised by Germont to follow his advice. 76.224.222.246 (talk) 19:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)LB

non-sexual courtesan?
Would someone please explain what a non-sexual courtesan is? Is it anything like a virgin prostitute? WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 20:28, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

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File:Giuseppe Verdi, La traviata title page - Restoration.jpg to appear as POTD soon
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The fim with many locations live
I seem to remember a filmed performance when singers where in "real" situations and locations, in Paris or in France, while the orchestra was playing simultaneously in Rome; this was then hailed as a fantastic success of technology. Does anyone knows what I am mentioning? If identified, it is worth a mention, I believe. It was acclaimed as a very good performance, too. 89.64.79.94 (talk) 18:21, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Article on what you are talking about from 2000 `La Traviata' Goes on Location in Paris / TV experiment brings drama, intimacy to Verdi. I don't care enough about it to put it in the article but you or someone else can use the article as a reference and mention it if you like.Smeat75 (talk) 19:10, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Apparently Michael Bednarek believes to be entitled to delete sourced pronunciations, both English and native... Other works of art have pronunciations, e.g. Les Misérables, Mona Lisa... and they are protected pages! --92.184.96.116 (talk) 11:55, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Elements of the opera
Plot of the story:

Costuming:

Character:

Instrumentation:

Actions: 136.158.103.75 (talk) 20:10, 24 April 2022 (UTC)