Talk:Lacrosse/Archive 2

A Note To Management
I must regretfully inform you that I recently had to manually revert this page to the form it held before it was grievously vandalized with the following text: BRAD SISSON HAS A HUGE PENIS I figured you might want to know about this and that the problem HAS been corrected. Odin of Trondheim 20:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC) A post-scripted note to management: It was someone who either did not have an account or was not logged in, but the IP address is in the history menu and is either one of the two beneath the edit I made before I thought to revert it. It really is a good page.


 * It seems like you are new to Wikipedia, but I thought you might want to know that this is fairly common and you do not need to leave a note when you revert vadalism. However, thanks for doing it this time! --Yarnalgo 00:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Box lacrosse
I think Box Lacrosse section should be renamed to "fake lacrosse" or "grass hockey" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.167.219.97 (talk) 02:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

Given that box lacrosse is the most commonly played form at least in Canada, and is growing in popularity around the world, and fake lacrosse doesn't seem to be a defined term, I would disagree rather strongly with this suggestion Damien73 05:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC) DJ

Introduction
I would left out the number of players in the introduction. It is not important that there are 10,12 6 or what ever players on the pitch (in the little league there are 7....). 129.69.120.55kuni

Box Lacrosse does sound alot like field hockey or something stupid like that. I've been playing for a while and never heard of it? is it even real?(Drewmaff7 03:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

Lacrosse is the fastest growing collegiate sport. Mixed martial is number one in general.24.62.123.24 23:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA-review
There has been a major improvement in the depth of the article the last time the article was up for GA-status. It appears that the major reason it failed then was due to a lack of citations but this has only been partially rectified. Several sections have no citations at all and all but "Evolution of the Game" under undercited. This absolutely needs to be taken care of.
 * Governing Bodies - this is way too extensive. At least trim to National Bodies or create a new separtate List article.
 * In line external links should be converted to in-line references. There are a couple in International lacrosse.
 * References themselves should be formatted consistently (right now the list looks very cluttered).
 * See also section is much too long especially since you have a Lacrose category (2-3 is good, 5 max).
 * Some thought should be given to organization. Should Women's Lacrose follow right after Men's Lacrose.  I have no real comment on the order just that it seemed a bit disjointed and a result of add-ons (what was written first).
 * Language is good but I suggest one more copyedit run through with an eye to consistent prose. Its always a problem with long articles.

The article really does have the necessary depth and of course lots of good pictures. Articles (ie. Sumo) were recently delisted because of similar citation problems. I will put this article on Hold for now rather than an outright fail.Peter Rehse 06:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Getting better, still would like to see more references and consistently entered references.Peter Rehse 00:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Failed primarily because of the reference issue but please refer to the above list.Peter Rehse 01:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Fighting?
Should there be a section of this article about fighting? I read in a book I have about fighting in ice hockey that lacrosse is the only other sport where players are not outright ejected for fighting in organized play. --Mus Musculus 20:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Organized play at what level? In my experience, which is extensive, this is absolutely not the case. --TheyCallMeBruce


 * Well, one would be ejected for fighting in field lacrosse, but I think Mus Musculus' book was talking about box lacrosse, where fighting is a big aspect of it. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 05:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Ojibwe name
Baaga'adowe is the verb form: "to play lacrosse" or "s/he plays lacrosse". Baaga'adowewin is then the noun form of the verb (with the nominalizer -win), "the game of lacrosse". So I guess it depends on which you'd prefer to go with; it seemed to me that those were meant to be translations of the concept of the game itself, thus a noun. But I'm not sure. And it's true that baaga'adowe is closer to the earlier spelling (which maybe reflected baaga'adowewag, "they play lacrosse", but I'm just guessing here). I don't even know what difference any of this makes. But I find this sort of stuff interesting, so whatever. --Miskwito 06:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess baaga'adowewin would be right then, however the only reason I chose baaga'adowe is because that is very commonly known as like the native american word for lacrosse. Of course there were other languages, but this is the most known. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 22:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if that's the case then I guess baaga'adowe is probably what the article should use. If it's given as the "Native American" name for lacrosse in many sources. --Miskwito 23:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

List of Leagues
A minor suggestion - add this list of leagues:

Damien73 05:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Title: Lacrosse vs. LaCrosse
I'd like to point out that when you search for "lacrosse", the top hit is capitalized as "LaCrosse", which is wrong. It also shows up a few results down by it's correct title, but maybe the weirdly capitalized one should be removed. Just a thought. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.111.63.240 (talk) 03:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I changed the LaCrosse redirect to be to Lacrosse (disambiguation), which seems like a better target. If you search for LaCrosse, you're more likely to be looking for a town or the car, not the sport. Thanks --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 11:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The lenth of the lacrosse stick
I have been playing lacrosse for 7 year and have had 3 different all-american coaches. Lacrosse sticks can be 30" inches to about 72" inches no matter were u play except for goalie who can have a short 30" in. to about a 52" in, mabey more but not as long as a long pole. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.56.146 (talk) 01:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
 * I'm not sure where you are from but that is completely wrong. You may be thinking of just the shaft because the 40" or whatever lengths referenced here refer to the shaft+head. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 02:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

OOO i thought they were just refering to the shaft, they should really clarify that.

when i see inches i dont even rifer to the complete stick i think that most people would think of just the shaft. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.56.146 (talk • contribs) 17:34, May 13, 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comments
As stated above, the LaCrosse page currently redirects to Lacrosse. I changed it to redirect to Lacrosse (disambiguation), but then User:CharlotteWebb changed it back. In a conversation we had about it, she wrote Redirecting to a disambiguation page would only make sense if the sport is moved to Lacrosse (sport). We're dealing with two nearly identical ways to write of the same French phrase with the same literal meaning. Why should titles like "Thestick" and "The Stick" point to different articles? You might have noticed that "Sandiego" redirects to San Diego, California to match the target of San Diego. It does not redirect to Carmen Sandiego, even though the latter name is the only case where "San Diego" is properly spelled as one word. Both forms, in literal Spanish, refer to James, son of Zebedee, and in figurative English, refer to a large city in the lower-left corner of the United States. My point was that "Lacrosse" is not a French phrase, it's an English word (that derives from French). I believe that if someone enters "LaCrosse" (with a capital C) as a search (which is currently the only way to get to the redirect page, since no pages link to it), they are not likely looking for the sport, so sending them off to the disambig page makes more sense. Please vote below - use Keep to indicate that you think the redirect to Lacrosse should be kept, or Change to indicate that the redirect should point to the disambig page. Thanks --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 12:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Change --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 12:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see WP:DEMOCRACY. — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Change - "LaCrosse" search not likely to be looking for the sport. But if so they are, easy to jump to it from the disam page. Mitico 17:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Search engines, including the one built-into the mediawiki software, and Google for that matter, are not case sensitive. How would you go about reading the mind of someone searches for "LACROSSE" in all capital letters? — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The "Go" button is case-sensitive, though. I agree that if someone types "LaCrosse", they are almost certainly not looking for the sport, and thus a redirect to the disambig page is appropriate. — Demong talk 05:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Change - LaCrosse is 90% of the time referring to the city. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 02:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe "a city", but not any in particular. — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know why this is being discussed here, where the only people who will see it are probably fans of the sport. For that reason I doubt anyone here would agree with what I've been saying all along. Move this article to Lacrosse (sport) and move the disambiguation page to Lacrosse (with all other variations redirecting to it). I'd be more than willing to fix all the links. — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You will never succeed in moving it to Lacrosse (sport). Lacrosse is a very important subject and 95% of the time "lacrosse" means lacrosse, as in the sport. Do a Google, look at the number of references (pages in 'what links here'), look at anything, lacrosse beats out the other topics in importance and shouldn't be reduced to a parenthesis. Also, LaCrosse refers to one of the cities (usually Wisconsin). Bring it up in a separate community page if you want but it will have this result. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 23:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. This page has over 1500 other articles linking to it so you would have to fix a lot of links. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 23:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am willing to do that. — CharlotteWebb 18:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Even if correct, your "95%" estimate would be meaningless, because the same number of search results would be generated regardless of capitalization, and would vary only slightly according to spacing. "Lacrosse" and "LaCrosse" produce identical results, with this article about the sport being, for me, ranked #2 either way. Add a space and this same article is #4. — CharlotteWebb 18:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Also I would like to direct everyone's attention to this list. I realize some people hate parentheses, but when the alternative is to depend on letter case, I believe it would be better to make the distinction between two or more articles more obvious. In fact if, for example, Gray wolf and Gray Wolf inherently pointed to the same URL, wherein the preferred capitalization could be manually specified, we would avoid the creation of accidental duplicate articles, and the need for such redirects (which are the usual method of avoiding awkward situations like that). — CharlotteWebb 18:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Lacrosse related deaths
What about a discussion of the dangers of the game and some of the recent deaths? Or a new page about it? --EPH82 11:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

see commotio cordisToyokuni3 (talk) 04:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Are there similar pages on other sports?-- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  TALK 02:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Off-side / Positions
The article correctly states the technical foul for off-side and denotes the position names. Unlike other sports, lacrosse has a restraining line with fixed numbers of players for each side. Perhaps, some mention could be made of the interchange of players across the restraining lines ( conforming to the established numbers ) to give a more fluid picture of the game.

JHU_bluejays —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JHU bluejays (talk • contribs) 12:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC).


 * By "interchange of players" do you mean, for example, a middie staying back so a defenseman can run the ball up the field? -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 02:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

lacrosse is the best sport ever

fighting
yes thter should be fighting in lacrosse it's fun for the fans —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.47.38.128 (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

New team
Im starting a new lacrosse team and ive never played and i barely know anything about it. Any suggestions on drills or what to buy?72.87.43.57 21:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Fastest growing sport in the United States?
That columnists in print sources would dub lacrosse the fastest growing sport in the United States does not, on its own, make the claim a fact, or even one worth quoting. While one could go about stating that X described the sport as the fastest growing..., simply quoting the most boldly favorable opinion or data available is a practice better suited for a press release, rather than an encyclopedia article. One can find legitimate sources giving the very same distinction of "fastest growing" in the US to sports such as NASCAR, UFC , paintball , and even bull riding. None of these are worthy of mention in an encyclopedic medium where solid consensus opinion is sought.

The intro here would clearly be enhanced with a more general, unobjectionable statement (e.g., has grown in popularity; or has enjoyed rapid growth in popularity).

I adapted the statement (blandly) and kept the reference intact. Caeculus 05:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Found and added appropriate references to substantiate fastest-growing claim. Would still like to find the actual National Federation of State High School Associations fact statement. AlbertHall 18:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have subsituted your references for one reference that has both high school and college data: the 2007 US Lacrosse Participation Survey, which gets its information directly from the NFHS and NCAA participation surveys. -- Y ar na lg o talk to me 23:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Great! Thanks. AlbertHall 21:29, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

"first used by the Pocahontas"?
I'm speaking total ignorance here, but this phrase from the "Evolution of the Game" section looks like somebody's prank to me. I've just Googled, and I didn't find any reference to Pocahontas as being the name of a cultural group in addition to the famous heroine. Dybryd 13:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

two goalies?
As far as i know the rules (mainly ILF rules) there is only one goalie allowed on the field. (one stik for the deignated goal keeper ...) other possitions are not forced by the rules .... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.69.120.55 (talk) 16:09, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protected
FYI, I have requested that this page be semi-protected because of all the vandalism lately. This means that it cannot be edited by anonymous users nor by registered accounts less than four days old. The protection will last for one month. --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 18:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Turned on again. Vandals, do your mommies know that you're playing on the computer?-- T HE F OUNDERS I NTENT  TALK 15:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Women's Rules
The women's rules look USA-specific. The international rules appear to be a bit different. Or am I reading the reference wrong? Peter Ballard 03:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Opening Paragraphs
I don't find the opening paragraphs terribly informative. From reading it, I know that it is played on a field of grass or artificial turf, played with teams of 10 and that players wear protective equipment, along with other things that should be left to the rest of the article. I have no clue what the aim of the game is and how the players score points (if they do at all). It doesn't even overtly tell me that the game is played with a stick!

I believe it should be be based along the lines of the Football (soccer) article. For example:

"Association football, commonly known as football or soccer, is a team sport played between two teams of eleven players, and it is the most popular sport in the world.[1] It is a ball game played on a rectangular grass or artificial turf field, with a goal at each of the short ends. The object of the game is to score by manoeuvring the ball into the opposing goal."

These three sentences communicate the basic premise of the game and inform me a lot more than the opening paragraph of this article. The opening paragraph should be made similar to the Football article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.98.137 (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

new equipment, maybe? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.121.33 (talk) 13:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)