Talk:Lake Shore Limited/Archive 1

Rating assessment
This article was recently listed for reassessment at WikiProject Trains/Assessment. I think Start class is still appropriate because: For further improvement ideas, the guidelines for Good and Featured articles should help. Slambo (Speak) 11:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * there is no separate lead section
 * there are no references except for one sentence that says "according to Amtrak..."
 * there are no images other than the service logo; photos of the train in operation and a route map would be helpful
 * other than the first section, the article is too list-heavy.

Confused
I was trying to buy tickets online from Chicago to Boston, and Amtrak told me that would require boarding a bus at Albany. Has the train service to Boston been cancelled? Fishal 03:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Miscellaneous Info
The following was placed in the article, I feel that everything but the current train info was useless, in a sense, but I didn't want to throw it out (it may be of use).

Between 1984 and 1996, a typical train on the Lake Shore looked like:
 * F40 engine - between Chicago and Boston
 * F40 engine - between Chicago and Boston
 * EMD FL9 engine - between Albany and New York
 * Material Handling Car - goes to Boston
 * Heritage Fleet baggage car - goes to Boston
 * Heritage Fleet Slumbercoach (New York 1984-1991, 1995-1996 – Boston 1991-1995)
 * Heritage Fleet 10/6 sleeper - goes to Boston
 * Coach (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to Boston
 * Coach (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to Boston
 * Coach (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to Boston
 * Café / Lounge car (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to Boston
 * Heritage Fleet diner - goes to New York
 * Coach (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to New York
 * Coach (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to New York
 * Coach (usually Amfleet II, occasionally Heritage Fleet) - goes to New York
 * Heritage Fleet 10/6 sleeper - goes to New York
 * Heritage Fleet baggage/dorm - goes to New York

Between 1996 and 1999, the Lake Shore looked like:
 * P42 engine (Chicago-Albany) - When no P42s were available, P40s or F40s were used instead
 * P42 engine (Chicago-Boston) - When no P42s were available, P40s or F40s were used instead
 * P32 engine (Albany-New York) - When a P32 was not available, one of the few remaining EMD FL9s was used instead
 * Heritage Fleet baggage car (Boston)
 * Viewliner sleeper (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Coach (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Coach (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Café (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York)
 * Heritage Fleet diner (New York)
 * Viewliner sleeper (New York)
 * Viewliner sleeper (New York)
 * Heritage Fleet crew dorm rebuilt from a 10/6 sleeper (New York)
 * Heritage Fleet baggage car (New York)

Between 1999 and early 2003, the consist of the train appeared as such:
 * P42 engine (Chicago-Albany)
 * P42 engine (Chicago-Albany)
 * Material Handling Car (Chicago-Albany)
 * Heritage Fleet baggage car (New York)
 * Heritage Fleet crew dorm rebuilt from a 10/6 sleeper (New York)
 * Viewliner sleeper (New York)
 * Viewliner sleeper (New York)
 * Heritage Fleet dining car (New York)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York)
 * Amfleet II Coach (New York) - Between the late Fall and early spring, the New York section carried only three coaches
 * Amfleet II Café (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Coach (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Coach (Boston)
 * Amfleet II Coach (Boston)
 * Viewliner sleeper (Boston) - Between the late Fall and early spring, the Boston section didn't carry a sleeper
 * Heritage Fleet baggage car (Boston)
 * Material Handling Car (Albany-Boston)
 * Mateiral Handling Car (Albany-Boston)

--​​ ​​D ​​tbohrer​​​ ​talk•contribs 01:50, 5 October 2007 (UTC) The MAIN issue with these consists, both past and present is that not only do they tend to be irrellevant, but they are ALSO unsourced, AND ALMOST ENTIRELY INCORRECT! (Irrellevant, Unsourced, and Incorrect!! How many reasons can there be for deletion?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.252.162.226 (talk) 22:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessing article
I looked at this article today to see if a reassessment to a higher rating is warranted. It has improved since last assessed as "Start"-class in 2006, with the addition of a Lead and images, and is now "C-class". There are still issues that need to be addressed:
 * 1) Why is on-time performance in the Naming subsection?
 * 2) The equipment change in October 2008 is confusing and contradictory, indicating that the train is coaches only but may have sleepers "in the future". The following table, though, shows Viewliner sleepers in the current consist. A check of Amtrak's website today does, in fact, show Viewliner sleepers with roomettes and bedrooms NY-Chicago. Perhaps the editor who added this content can clarify what was meant. If not, the statement regarding sleeper service ("As of now, it is only coaches, but sleepers are proposed for the future") should be deleted entirely.
 * 3) Too many unsourced statements, particularly the jokes about late running, which looks like WP:OR.
 * 4) The article discusses at length the train's poor on-time performance, then in the very next sentence says, "due to deterioration in the west, as well as improving conditions on CSX trackage, recently the Lake Shore Limited has been running with some of the best on time performance of any of Amtrak's overnight trains." First of all, how does track deterioration improve on-time performance?? Secondly, if the train now has excellent on-time performance, isn't the preceding paragraph about tardiness being given undue weight?
 * 5) The article should follow Wikipedia's passenger train style guide.    JGHowes   talk  21:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Photo needed
I think this article should have a photo of the switching operation at Albany. I've witnessed this a number of times myself but it might be hard to get a good one since Amtrak clears the platform for the duration. Mackensen (talk) 15:31, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

"Worcestor"
Template's broken, Worcester is being misspelled on Framingham and Springfield's pages. I can't figure out how to fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.147.115 (talk) 00:52, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It's fixed now. Thanks for the heads up! Mackensen (talk) 00:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Michigan re-route
There's a rumor going around about a re-route on the Michigan Line this October but it's not really substantiated (no, that Facebook post doesn't count). Amtrak did consider the possibility in the PRIIA 2008 PIP, but rejected it, and the article already covers that. Mackensen (talk) 12:32, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Article title
For users worldwide not famil. with the U.S., let alone trains, let alone the meaning of term Limited, coming upon an article whose title is italicized, without an additional term of explication, like this one's, is baffling. The italicization obviously means it's a proper name. But of what? A Lake Erie steamer? A novel? A musical piece by Aaron Copland? I'd be willing to bet there is a novel called Lake Shore Limited. And if it were to be the subject of a Wiki article, you wouldn't want it to claim priority and be called, simply, Lake Shore Limited.

As well, it is inconsistent with style established by Wiki articles “Montrealer (train)”, “Vermonter (train)”, yadda yadda. So add “(train)”—unitalicized—to title.

Jimlue (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:24, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * It's consistent with Article titles. Parenthetical disambiguation is only used when necessary. There might be a novel titled Lake Shore Limited, but we don't have an article on it. If we did, there'd be a discussion about whether this article, Lake Shore Limited (New York Central Railroad train), the novel, or none of the above, was the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for that name. Beyond that, the first words of the article make it perfectly clear what the subject is. Mackensen (talk) 19:29, 7 June 2017 (UTC)