Talk:Lamington/Archive 1

I've currently got a hundred
I've currently got a hundred - odd lamingtons in a box in my freezer, so I'll post a picture of one in a couple of days --218.101.45.57 09:58, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Gelatin?!?!? Never heard of that! Is that some kiwi variant? The recipe in Oz is simple: Sponge cake coated with a mixture milk, cocoa and butter then rolled in coconut. What is the purpose of the gelatin? The variant with the cream is also found in Oz, though it's not very nice because it tends to be mock cream. Shermozle 11:35, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

I heard (probably an urban legend) that the lamington originated from someone over-cooking a sponge cake, then saving it by dipping it in a thin mix of chocolate to make it more edible. Anyone actually have a source? Martin Rudat(T|@|C) 12:46, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Qld is very hot. If you leave cake out, it dessicates. Enrobe it in chocolate icing, and it will last longer. See side bar to the Lamington recipe in McMonigal, Valwyn. Australia Wide Cookbook (1995)ISBN 0646248243. The story about a piece of cake landing in gravy then into a bowl of coconut is great, but seems highly unlikely. Why would there be a bowl of coconut on a Cloncurry dinner table in the late C19th? Not exactly part of the Victorian cooking of the time. 165.121.29.125 06:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I LOL'D
"Lamington is also a small Hamlet/village in north of Scotland near Tain. It has a postbox." I lol'd but I don't think it has shit to do with this article. Also that story sounds like horse shit, can we put it in as a myth or something?

The story in the article
Although the idea of a Baron flinging a gravy-covered cake over his shoulder into a banquet hall is beautiful, I have to say that I doubt this story a bit.--Deville (Talk) 16:55, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

same.

I lol'd when I saw Natalie Tran's name. She's one of my favourite Youtubers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.133.56 (talk) 00:28, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Gravy-lam story unconfirmed, but has history
Some basic googling has revealed that the gravy-lam tale certainly has legs, at least as a myth. It seems to have originated in an article by John Hepworth in Nation Review in July 1977. References added to the secondary but not the original source.

--Huge Bananas 13:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

The claim that he called the lamington "those bloody poofy woolly biscuits" is also from the same joke article. Walkerjoe 12:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Maryborough lays claim to the Lamington
Following the 1893 floods that swept away the old wooden bridge over the Mary River in Maryborough QLD the new concrete bridge - built by engineer Alfred Barton - was opened by Gov. Lamington in 1896, promptly named the Lamington Bridge, as it remains to this day, and after the ceremony they retired to the hotel up the road (Now called the Lamington Hotel) for lunch. There, the cook had run out of dessert ingredients and ..... yes the rest is history.--MichaelGG 13:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you tell me where you got this story from? Walkerjoe 12:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I lived in Maryborough for several years and it's local folklore. However pinning it down to published textual information is hard... like many urban myths!!! You might like to contact the Fraser Coast Chronicle (previously the Maryborough Chronicle). --MichaelGG 09:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Michael. I'll see what they can come up with. 124.187.78.43 10:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

What lends a bit of credence to all the Lamington stories is that the hon. Governor presided during the 1890s Depression and the lack of dessert ingredients would fit in with the poverty of the times. According to a book I read on Brisbane in the 1890s bread and dripping was considered a good feed, let alone cakes and desserts!! Best of luck with the Maryborough research, The Lamington Bridge and Lamington Hotel are the best surviving links to the Gov. himself and bridge dedication ceremony most certainly took place, so it strikes me as a solid contender for the origin of the noble cake itself. Oh for a time machine!!--

On a totally off-topic I grew up in Newcastle On Tyne in the UK where, as we all knew as GOSPEL, the Tyne Bridge was the prototype of the Sydney Harbour Bridge and built by the same company. It is now known that the S.H.B. was well underway and the Tyne Bridge was actually based upon it. Point of story? Local myths can become entrenched for generations and it takes something like Wikipedia to come along and sort out the truth! Hopefully Lamingtons included! MichaelGG 03:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Toowoomba story
Why is the Toowoomba story "The most probable version of events"? I have been conducting research on the origin of the lamington, and have not found it so.

A Toowoomba City Council representative emailed me regarding the city's claim to the cake after I questioned the reliability of this story, which they have recounted on tiles on footpaths (read the tile on my site, http://history.joewalker.org/2007/03/26/lamingtons-the-plot-thickens/). The email said that "The information is not certain," and that "A local man, Col Young, believes his grandmother, Fanny Young invented them. Fanny was employed as a cook to Lord Lamington when the first lamington appeared."

The Toowoomba story is based on Col Young's story that his grandmother invented them, and has (as far as I can tell) no documentary evidence. Also, the Toowoomba story states that the lamington was invented as it is today, while early references describe a different cake that gradually evolved into what we have today (see my earlier article on lamingtons, http://history.joewalker.org/?p=23). The Toowooomba City Council seem to have been pushing this unsubstantiated story for reasons of civic pride.

I plan to contact Col Young and will post an article and an update here regarding the reliability of his claim. Walkerjoe 12:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Origin - John Hepworth writing in the Nation Review, July 1977
Further to "Gravy-lam story unconfirmed, but has history" above:

In Frank Devine's That's Language column in the Weekend Australian of 12-13 June 1999, he reports on the origin of the name of the cake. He bases his research on an article in the periodical Ozwords, published by the Australian National Dictionary Centre. That article was unsigned but Frank Devine says it is stylistically identical to the work of the editor, Frederick Ludowyck. According to this article, there is no recorded association whatsoever of the cake with Lord Lamington until the late (and, according to Devine, "radically untrustworthy") John Hepworth wrote about it in the July 1977 issue of Nation Review. This is where the story of the irascible diner and the dish of brown gravy apparently comes from. Hepworth also mentions a certain Alice Lovelightly as being the one with the genius to think of substituting chocolate sauce for the brown gravy. It would be interesting to discover if there ever was such a person as the wonderfully-named Alice Lovelightly.

Writes Frank Devine: "Ludowyck finds no mention of it in the 2nd edition of Sidney J Baker's The Australian Language (published 1966). The 1976 Australian Pocket Oxford Dictionary says "origin unknown".  In 1981, the Courier-Mail retold John Hepworth's spurious tale in a revised form - Finding a large amount of stale cake in the Government House kitchen during Lord Lamington's residence, the staff dipped it in chocolate, sprinkled it with coconut and served it at a dinner for parliamentarians - who demanded the recipe.  In this revised form, the legend took off.

Thus, as far as the professional researchers of these things are concerned, the Lord Lamington story has only become received wisdom since 1981. If Ludowyck and Devine are right, what everyone believes as fact is actually based on a fabrication dating from as recently as 1977, and the author of it is dead so we can't ask him to reveal his sources. Frank Devine concludes with "Ludowyck shrewdly draws attention to the uniquity of cakes named for English localities, the Bath and Chelseas buns, for instance, the Eccles cake. I bet he has found the  leamington 's true home".

See also this. -- JackofOz 13:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Error
Someone needs to update the second link, the original location has been seemingly removed from the ANU website.--TeChNoWC (talk) 04:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

DFOFJW
"Natalie Tran (CommunityChannel) of YouTube has also helped attain interest in Lamingtons by offering to do an episode on how to make them. This episode has yet to air."

I don't see how this is relevant information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.130.70 (talk) 20:24, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's relevant because its the only reason anyone from the other 99.9% of the planet has ever heard of lamingtons. 71.81.193.28 (talk) 04:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I say it's relevant and i'll put it back up, it's relevant because of the reach that Tran has and the awareness of Lamingtons she has subsequently raised. I also suggest this article have an "in popular culture" section where this and all the other little bits of information can go. The main section would then simply contain information pertaining to what Lamingtons actually are. Anyone who objects please state why within 7 days. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stripy tie (talk • contribs) 19:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless there's a better, i.e. reliable, source for it then it should not go in. YouTube is not a reliable source for anything, nor is a blog a reliable source, unless it's by a recognised authority with some editorial control. So a video blog on YouTube is certainly not a reliable source. -- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 20:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Phrasing
'The strawberry variety is more common in New Zealand, while a lemon variety has been encountered in Australia.' It sounds like the writer is describing some strange and wonderful beast found in the deepest, darkest, most unexplored regions of the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.230.44.97 (talk) 23:17, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

^Agree with this.

Also, there is no actual source on the matter of this being a common food item in South Africa. And as a south african, I'd never heard of it, the entire basis for the statement that they are frequently found at our fundraisers would seem to have been based on the logic that if they are found in south african specialty stores overseas then they must be similarly prevalent in the local cuisine. And I can tell you that noone over here would have any idea what a "Lamington drive" would be, other than some sort of road.

Locally at best those would be an infrequent foodstuff, if not just one completely unfamiliar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.135.74.68 (talk) 21:56, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I resolved the phrasing. I don't really know what phrasing was better, but given this thread was from 2010 and its now 2014 I figured anything was an improvement. Steven Fisher (talk) 18:02, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Excess "not"
This sentence not is not grammatical:

"Coconut was not an ingredient not widely used in European cooking at that time ..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.191.234.70 (talk) 18:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed, thanks for noticing it – though you could have done so yourself probably more quickly than posting about it here!-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 18:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Another origin story
Primary source however is not identified.

"it appeared that lamingtons were invented in Brisbane around the early 1900s, probably by Amy Shauer who taught cooking at Brisbane central Technical College from 1895 to 1937. She also wrote three very popular cook books, and developed cookery courses for schools and colleges across Queensland, and was a famous cake maker and cake judge at Shows.

It's likely the first lamingtons were invented in Amy Shauer's cooking class and named after Lady Lamington, who was the school's patroness and extremely interested in education for girls."

http://www.braidwoodtimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/another-history-of-the-lamington/464816.aspx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.191.234.70 (talk) 19:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Scottish village?
Can the reader's letters page of the 1980 Australian Women's Weekly really be considered WP:RS? Even if it is, it does not distinguish between Lamington, Highland and Lamington, South Lanarkshire. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:10, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Natalie Tran
It's worth noting that lamingtons were used in a video by Natalie Tran; The second suggested search option for lamingtons is "lamingtons, Natalie Tran," and Google trends shows that US searches for lamingtons doubled at the time of the communitychannel video involving them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.231.169.25 (talk) 23:38, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Her article currently says that she promised, but never delivered.. ? see, from 3:50. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:48, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

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