Talk:Lancaster University/Archive 1

Centre for Medical Education outdated
I note a short reference to the Centre for Medical Education at the end of this article which seems to be text that has been lifted straight from the Centre's web site. The Centre for Medical Education is part of the Department of Medicine which has now become a Division in the new School of Health and Medicine. The new School operates independantly of the three existing faculties and so could be considered a faculty in it's own right (as per the Management School) although internally the University has thus far stopped short of calling it a faculty. I'm inclined to update this section but would welcome other's comments before I do so.--82.20.46.43 (talk) 23:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Since the above comment was posted in 2008, the position has been clarified: the School of Health and Medicine is a full Faculty, with a Dean, alongside the pre-existing three. Hence, Lancaster has four academic Faculties. Ministry (talk) 14:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

GF6 Removal
Strange, someone removed all reference to the "george fox six" from this page, although there's still a redirect to this page from that name.
 * Is removing such text without comment vandalism?
 * I inserted the redirect. As for removing it without comment: it's at least grounds to put it back, IMO. Anyone think it shouldn't be there? I personally think it should, since it's part of the uni's history.
 * Dan Poltawski:I removed the reference to george fox six as I felt it was inappropiate for an information page for the university, it doesn't aid the gf6 or the supposed unbiased opinion of the wikkipedia entries to have such issues in the information page. Additional page with reference to the event maybe. But not in that page. Apologies if I didn't put the comment in the appropiate place, I am not greatly familiar with editing wikipedia pages. However I don't think that the wikkipedia way is to put current events such as the gf6 on the front page of a lancaster university article is the correct way of going about things. The slogan to the top right of this page is 'The free Encylopedia', would such an event really be in the free encyclopedia? (and the fact that someone put this at the top of the article originally goes along with this)

I have changed the heading to Controversy and put the GF6 stuff under a sub heading. This will allow for future changes to be put in there and removes the prominence of the gf6 stuff.-localzuk 23:54, 29 December 2005 (UTC) The GF6 saga should be included, not prominantly, but it still should be there. Events like this shape the history of such establishments, and to have one going at at the time of writing makes it even more important to give it a mention. What students get up to in universities is as important as any other aspect of the institution. -Bauulben 13:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

LUSU entertainment complex
There is a sentence on the page which reads 'However, there no Students' Union entertainment complex on campus as other similar-sized campus Universities tend to have.' This does not really provide much information. Should either the last part be removed (as other similar...) or can some sort of reference be provided to back up that other uni's with campuses like Lancaster's have onsite entertainment complexes?--localzuk 12:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

'The Wharf'
There is another sentence regarding Chancellors Wharf - stating that it is known by students as 'The Wharf'. Is there any way of backing this up? If not I think it should be removed.--localzuk 12:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I've never heard of it called that before. I've removed it unless anyone thinks it should go back. 9cds 12:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

History of University
I have corrected some points about the history of the university. One problem is that the university's own web pages are not correct. At one point they say that the first building at Bailrigg was started in November 1965 and occupied a year later. This was the main part of Bowland College. I think these dates are correct. At another point it says Bowland was built in 1964. This is not correct. It also states that the Waring and Gillows buiding was occupied from 1964 to 1966. I joined the university as a lecturer in September 1966 and was in Waring and Gillows for at least a year, until the science buildings were completed at Bailrigg. I think that Arts staff were in W & Gs in 1963 as they were recruited prior to the first students in 1964. The scientists had research labs and research students in the 64 - 65 year and added 1st year undergraduates in 65 - 66. If any Wikapedian is at the university, please check the library and talk to staff who were there in the mid 1960s. Bduke 06:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm quite sure Bowland was built in 1964 - they were celebrating their 40th birthday last year. -- 9cds(talk) 13:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Colleges started before their buildings. The first students arrived in 1964 and were divided between Bowland and Lonsdale Colleges. As I state above (and this does come from the university web site), Bowland buildings started in 1965 and the first bit was occupied in 1966. Note that the material about County College is also wrong. It states, correctly, that Princess Alexandra opened the Collge in 1969. I was Principal of the College then, but I was the second Principal. The first, Professor Roland Dobbs, was Principal in the building planing and construction stage. There were still students belonging to the College and I was Senior Tutor, before 1969, in fact if I recall from 1966, or maybe early 1967. Bduke 20:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The other thing to remember is that we have to have references for any changes - the info that was there had references (the uni pages). These are the best we have for the time being so we have to stick with them. -localzuk 14:37, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, which his why I suggested further study in the Lancaster Library. A history of the early days was written at one point. Talk to someone like Professor Mullett in History. The university web pages seem to have little real sense of their history. Bduke 20:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll take a look tomorrow when I'm in there.-localzuk 00:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I had a look for books on the uni's history in the library and could not find anything useful - the only possible books that would be useful 'Quest for innovation...' are missing from the shelves. Any suggestions where to look for this info (other than a person - I don't really have time to talk to people, just find a book).-localzuk 12:20, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That is the right book. I remember it now. See if you can order it or see if the City Library has it. Sorry I did not reply earlier. I have been taking a break off the internet on holiday. Bduke 05:50, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Since the entry makes reference to its Quaker connections and origins, eg in the reason why Quaker Grey is in its badge, it is accurate and fair to add that its recent history (involvement with B Ae Systems) is inconsistent with Quaker principles. That is not an opinion, but a statement of fact. It is not necessary to source Quakers' pacifism and oppositions to arms traders since that is easily established by reference to even the most rudimentary history or summary of the group. (this was added by User:81.155.141.64)

The problem with your addition, in my opinion, is that the university never had a Quaker connection, except that the founding VC was a Quaker. The grey was added because of the strong early connection of the Quakers with the city and region. George Fox stayed in Lancaster often. Your removal of the earlier added section about the logo seems to be spite because your addition is being reverted. I have put it back in but edited it to correct the history. Let me repeat, the involvement of B Ae Systems as inconsistent with Quaker principles is not relevant because the university has never officially operated on Quaker principles, although the VC certainly used Quaker principles in conflict resolution during student sit-ins in the 1960s and early 1970s. BTW I was there as an early staff member from 1966 (not quite the beginning). --Bduke 23:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * And as I have stated, drawing such conclusions without a reliable source, it is original research.-Localzuk(talk) 00:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * it is a popular campus urban legend that the university was built on land owned by Quakers and that is why all the bars shut at 10.30 on Sunday evenings. I have no idea if that's true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.80.32.8 (talk) 17:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC).
 * I have not heard of either of these. The second is not true. I was first licensee of County Bar and was never told that is why we closed then. --Bduke 21:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

All licenses required a 2230 closing time on a Sunday in those daysKeymou (talk) 14:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Alumni
Worldwide known finance professor John Hull (Univ. of Toronto) belongs to the University of Lancaster alumni. I suggest that you add him in the alumni list.
 * Why not Be Bold and add it yourself? :) I'm not totally sure if he is alumni, so I'll leave it to someone else who can clarify the fact to add it. -- 9cds(talk) 14:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

My first time on a talk page, so I apologise for any errors of usage. John Hull's CV lists an MA from Lancaster (although he got his initial degree from Cambridge, and his doctorate from Cranfield), so if anybody wants to add him on this basis, perhaps they should? -- ThomasL 03:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Reference to drinking
I removed the sentence talking about 'heavy drinking' under student activities as I don't see that it is necessary and could be seen as negative (therefore going against Wikipedia's impartiality). Also it did not really fit in with the tone of the article.

Sorry if it is a problem
 * There is a heavy drinking culture on the campus though. To remove it is to deny the truth. It can be evidenced by looking at any copy of Scan. Maybe we can use it in a less than negative way. Also, note that including a negative fact is still NPOV. -Localzuk (talk) 12:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't forget that what's in Scan is what the editors/writers decided to put there - Scan reflecting a heavy drinking culture doesn't necessarily mean the majority of the uni is that way. Even though that is actually the case! Also, a fact is a fact whether a negative or positive fact; that UK universities have a heavy drinking culture in general might not be a good thing (although to some it is) doesn't mean it's not something worth writinig about. J-Deeks 17:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Heavy drinking culture? True there are many bars, but there is hardly a heavy drinking culture when compared to big inner city universities.  Truth is you can't measure something like this, and unless it's blatently obvious (which it's not), it shouldn't be included.  Mention the 9 bars and the fact there are more places to drink per person in Lancaster than anywhere else in the UK by all means, because they are facts, not opinions. -Bauulben 13:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * LAncaster DOES have a heavy drinking culture. SO do most other UK universities. So, in fact, does most of the 18-25 UK population. So the point really doesn't merit mentioning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.80.32.8 (talk) 17:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

Lancaster has a heavier drinking culture than many UK university. As an ex student who was a non-drinker, fresher's week was a nightmare to try and find like-minded people.SaraiNG 11:39, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I was there in the early days as an academic who held the license for a College Bar. I sympathise with you, but do you have evidence that Lancaster has a heavier drinking culture than other universities? My son has recently been at Oxford and I think it was similar to Lancaster. --Bduke 11:51, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Low Temperature Physics
Browsing around the internet I came across this link http://www.physlink.com/News/093003MITLowestTemp.cfm, saying that M.I.T have achieved the lowest temperature ever, is this breaking lancasters record? or is the temperature that MIT reached not maintainable or something, i'm not a physicist so i dont feel confident in editing it out of the page but if someone who knows the score could contribute that would be cool, thanks - —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tomber (talk • contribs)
 * Actually many places have achieved absolute zero (0 degrees Kelvin), but only the machine they have in the psychis department at Lancaster can sustain it for any real length of time, hence the record. -Bauulben 13:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, absolute zero is probably unattainable (thanks to quantum mechanics). You can get very close to it nowadays, though. Have a read of Absolute zero. Mike Peel 21:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Absolute zero IS unobtainable. This is a consequence of the third law of thermodynamics. This law has held up since 1906 and is widely accepted as truth. So nobody has reached it for any amount of time. However, temperatures of the order of one tenth of a micro-kelvin have been achieved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Neilrobinson2000 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC).
 * One of the immutable laws of physics is the unatainability of absolute zero. Read any thermodynamics text book, it would take infinite time to bring a system to absolute zero and would also take infinite energy to get it there. Hence; impossible. No university anywhere has everattained it. Period. 194.80.32.8 17:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The record relates to HOW the temperature was achieved, as well as the temperature reached. For instance, MIT has recently taken the lead on the lowest achieved temperature (the record for lowest achieved is not the same as lowest sustained) from a Swiss university (the name of which escapes me at the moment). Lancaster still holds the record for the coldest sustained temperature, and has achieved the lowest temperatures using evapouration cryostats and adiabatic demagnetization fridges. 194.80.32.8 19:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Notable Professors
This really needs more people from different departments adding... - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.179.138 (talk • contribs)

Well, I tried to add a physics lecturer who invented from scratch a technology used to cool samples of helium to microkelvin temperatures, but it was removed. 87.113.29.92 22:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Try writing an article on George Pickett. People often delete redlinks in lists of notable people, but an article shows they are notable. Indeed several of the Physics Profs deserve an article in my opinion. --Bduke 00:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... Fair enough, I appologise! I'll see if I can find any other relevant information about him (and others) and set up an article! 194.80.32.8 14:45, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

I would say it would be better to restrict the list to emeritus or former professors rather than current ones - after all, the reason academics get promoted to professor (usually, anyway) is that they are notable in their field. There are no objective cross-disciplinary criteria for what makes someone 'notable', so eventually we might just have a list of all professors from all departments. Not that this wouldn't be a useful list, but it would make the main entry on Lancaster University rather long and unwieldy, I think. --Junglehungry 13:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge with Nuffield Theatre
Seems someone put it up for merge.. may as well vote.. -- 9cds(talk) 11:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support - There's about two lines in that article, it can be better served in here. -- 9cds(talk) 11:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - The other article is barely even long enough to be called a stub. Unless someone can put enough worthwhile information into it, merge them. J-Deeks 15:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - Definatly, it seems rather odd they are two sepearte adticles in the first place. -Bauulben 13:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge completed. -- 9cds(talk) 02:12, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

External links - LCF
I don't know about anyone else, but I can't see why Lancaster Conservative Future should be in there.

Addition: the same user removed a George Fox Six link that to me does appear to be relevant. I reverted both changes. J-Deeks 12:48, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't get it either. Good job ;)-- 9  cds (talk) 21:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

East/West Mixup
"The campus is undergoing further expansion, now concentrating on rebuilding accommodation on the west side of campus, in Furness and Fylde colleges." -- seems to me that's the east? Nick Fel 13:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * From Australia, it seems to me to be the South. --Bduke 13:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm. Maybe change it to "concentrating on rebuilding accommodation on the south side of Australia" then? :) Nick Fel 15:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Seriously, is'nt the spine pretty well N/S and Furness and Fylde are S of Alex Sq? --Bduke 00:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but when you consider how much further campus extends to the south (management/engineering, Grizedale, Pendle, the new Alexandra Park), Flyde and Furness are very much centrally located. You could call it South East I guess, but to me that still suggests a southern extremity (particularly since the term South West Campus has been coined for Alexandra Park).
 * OK, in my time (long ago 1966 - 76, 81 - 82) there was much less to the South and we refered only to North and South of Alexandra Sq. I quess it has altered now. I did visit last year but did not get to Alexandra Park. --Bduke 08:42, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Map
Anyone else think it might be useful to put in a copy of this map: http://www.lancs.ac.uk/travel/campus.htm. There's a gap down the side of the campus section which would be very appropriate for it. Nick Fel 15:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

What is the copyright status of it? --Bduke 22:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

It is copyrighted, not in the public domain or Creative Commons. Ministry 11:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Bars - ten?
I really don't think the hotel's bar can remotely be described as a campus bar. To the best of my knowledge the hotel is not part of the university; it's just conveniently next door. J-Deeks 02:04, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd agree. There is, however, a bar in the Great Hall complex with more case for being included... Nick Fel 12:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed the reference to the Hotel Bar. The hotel is not owned by the University, nor is it part of the University Campus. I'm unsure about the Great Hall bar - it's not a regular bar like the other nine, but it's used on occasion for functions. I also added information that Pendle Bar may be closing. At this time, I'm unsure of the exact situation as it's still developing, my understanding is that the licensee is leaving and the university is not appointing anyone else to take over. --Darksun 19:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Added a mention of the Great Hall bar, since it is technically a bar on campus--but left it so that it is clear there are nine "real" bars. I also moved the Pendle closure to the controversy section, since it is a current and contentious issue. Nick Fel 13:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * To the best of my knowledge there's no intention of it closing whatsoever - and this is after talking with the people wokring there and running it, who would hopefully know. Nevertheless, there is controversial discussion (and a lot of meaningless comments and scaremongering).J-Deeks 19:56, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if its still there, but in the late 1970's there was a "Junior Staff Bar" in addition to the eight college bars and the Great Hall bar. It was situatuated in the Londsale extension building, on the west side of Great Hall square. If it still exists, then with the addition of Graduate bar you should have ten - plus the Great Hall complex. Of course the Cartmel and Bowland/Londale restaurant complexes were licenced as well. As regards the hotel, it was built as a joint venture between the Uni and the operators. University owns the freehold, though I'm not sure of the actual financial relationship between the parties. When it was opened it was made clear that it would effectively operate a a private-enterprise conference centre within the aegis of the Uni. 81.86.230.16 20:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The Assistant Staff bar was still in ASH House in the early 1990s, but that space is now occupied by the Department of Continuing Education.
 * The Lancaster House hotel operates independently of the University; few would consider it integral, or count its facilities towards the University's total.
 * I wouldn't be inclined to include the Great Hall bar since, as Darksun said, it's only open during events, for patrons of those events. As the term is generally applied, the University has nine bars, one per College.  Ministryofinformation 12:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

University ratings
(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. Timrollpickering 22:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Under the premise of an encyclopaedic entry I'm inclined to say that all published rankings should be listed. Currently, this is not completely impractical and rightly avoids any selections, however appropriate they may appear. User 11/02/12

University Name
On the main page it says that the uni was originally created as the University of Lancaster, but I'm sure it's still called that. It's the name used on all degree certificates and official documents! Lancaster University just seems to be a 'short' name used in informal contexts to make the uni sound more modern! Could anyone shed any light on this? (Jonny1047 21:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC))


 * A lot of universities in the UK have both a "brand name" used in all literature, signs etc... and an "official name" that still appears in the charter, degree certificates and so forth. See Durham University, Keele University, Queen's University Belfast, Swansea University and Queen Mary, University of London for other examples. (It's not just a UK thing - see Leiden University as well.) The "brand name" isn't really an informal thing since it's what the university is using to project a single image. Whilst in the UK "Foo University" and "University of Foo" are used freely as alternatives to mean the same thing, this isn't always the case worldwide - see University of Miami and Miami University or University of New York for some of the more complicated cases. Projecting a single name identity to the world is increasingly important in the global market. Timrollpickering 15:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Jarvis Cocker
Is not an alumni, unless St Martins College grads are alumni which I dont think they are.


 * Not to mention Jarvis Cocker being a graduate of St. Martin's College, London, not S.Martin's College, Lancaster - an entirely different institution! Ministry 12:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

University Colours
Other uni articles include university colours in the info box (see Oxford, UCL), I wanted to do this for Lancaster but am not sure how the colours should be presented. As stated in the article, Quaker grey and red are the uni colours, but which way round do they go? LUSU sells scarves and sells them in both the following combinations:

which is correct and should be placed on the main page? Jonny1047 19:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Both, if you like and both are on sale. University of St Andrews has four in the infobox. — mholland (talk) 19:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you sure they're University scarves, not College Scarves? Bowland's colours are red and Quaker grey, whilst Lonsdale's are Quaker grey and red. Ministry (talk) 15:46, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Travellers
I am not at all sure that this new section is notable enough for inclusion. I have trimmed out the nonsense and POV material. Should the rest remain? --Bduke 23:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably not. It was briefly covered by the press but they left after about a week and there was no lasting damage or other long term problems. Darksun 12:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Disputed
I can't find any sources regarding the planned but unbuilt colleges. The website for Lancaster University mentions the proposed motorway flyover, but not another campus of 8 colleges. Darksun 22:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you will, unless you can find internal documents. I saw a large-scale map in University House mounted on the wall of one of the offices in the late 1970's with the Hazelrigg campus showing. The first occassion I saw it was during a Student Union occupation of University House and the Senate Chamber (I was on the Union Constitutional Committe). I can also remember having quite long discussions at the time with various long-serving members of staff who confirmed both the Hazelrigg Plans, and those for the extra "Southern" Colleges. Two I can remember talkng with about it were the manageress of Bowland Bar, and the Bursar of Bowland College. I prefer not to mention names here, but I am sure you will know the two ladies I mean. 81.86.230.16 08:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

PS to this - thinking about it, the original source of the information would have been Jim Cantsfield, who often frequented Bowland Bar, and as far as I can remember was the University's site engineer Something else to note was that the original Pendle and Grizedale Colleges were originally intended just to be one college:Pendle. Grizedale would have been the next to be built. In the event it wasn't, but the organisational structure for Pendle and Grizedale were already in place so it was redesigned into two smaller colleges. Thats why the two colleges shared one Bursar and set of Admin staff.81.86.230.16 18:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

My recollection as a member of staff from 1966 to 1976 and 1981-1983 agrees with 81.86.230.16, but we do need a source for it. --Bduke 06:57, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to question the merit of covering planned but unbuilt colleges in such detail. This was a development which may have been proposed over thirty years ago, but went no further than a map. I don't doubt plans existed, but as they're unavailable for verification, and only have the status of internal documents, I doubt they can be considered definitive. So far as I'm aware, the 'forests' names are speculation. I won't amend the section until there's further discussion, but I'd be inclined to simply omit all mention of the proposed colleges. Ministry 12:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Returning to this page, I see I'd already commented on this issue! The point I want to make this time is that if the statement is to be made in the encyclopedic entry, it needs to be supported by documentary evidence - without a secondary source, it's merely an unverified anecdote. I really don't think it's adequate to say "I saw a map once", or "I talked to the site engineer in a bar", or "the document's somewhere in the Library" - if it is, why not go and find it? In the mean time, I've added 'citation needed' to the claim, rather than removing the claim outright. Please don't remove 'citation needed' until a citation is added or the claim is withdrawn as unprovable. Five years after I first said so, I still think it'd be preferable to simply not mention the alleged extra colleges, but failing that, the uncertainty needs to be stated. Ministry (talk) 12:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Well I'm in Singapore at the moment and even when I get back to the UK I am not going to drive up to Lancaster to satisfy one editor.  If someone is in the University, then the original development plan for the University, which includes the flyover with new Colleges marked out is in the original design document for the University.  Its the same document that describes the role of the Spine and the interaction of an Urban within a rural environment and various other commentary on the design from the architects/  I know Bduke, who will remember it as he was there in the same period as myself, will remember it, but he is in Australia last time I heard.  So any editors out there who can satisfy MoI's need to have a citation for something that anyone who was there in the 60s and 70s knows well?   Snowded  TALK 14:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lancaster University Crest.png
Image:Lancaster University Crest.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

recent editing
Just wondering why there is constant edits every few minutes from one user? much of it could be done at once as its makes it very difficult when looking back over old edits. also why change the logo to not include the corporate logo used by the uni on everything? finally, out of interest where did the colour order for the uni colours come from - LUSU sell scarves with grey-red-grey-red-grey order, as well as the one currently displayed, so where did the decision to change the colours over come from - or why was the old combination deemed incorrect?

also - the article seems to be oddly ordered. would it not be better to include most of the development in the history section? and chancellors wharf as a subsection along with the colleges and other facilities?

Jonny1047 (talk) 00:05, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I would like to thank User:Keymou for some good edits. However, like Jonny1047, I would like to suggest he or she uses the "Preview" button. It does make it easier to check edits. --Bduke (talk) 01:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I just want to echo Bduke's comments about good edits! I didn't mean to be overly critical in my questioning! on the topis of the colours - mustn't there be a correct order for the colours? where would we find that out from? Also, to enable a lot more info to be added, if anyone has the time there are a couple of books in the library with lots of info about the development of the uni! - suppose enough to make a separate article about the history of the uni actually! I have had a look at them but don't have the time to add and properly reference new material from them! Jonny1047 (talk) 19:21, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the scarf has the colours in a different order on each side. It's reversible. The one for Cambridge seems to be reversible as shown here. Academic scarf. Seems this might be quite unusual but don't know where it's actually laid down that the colours are reversible or which is the 'main' way of displaying them (if there is one). Trying to add the colours to the college scarves but haven't a clue which is which. Keymou (talk) 19:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Chancellor
The change in Chancellor needs a source. Is it all correct even? It needs referencing and I can not find any source. If it is correct, why has Chris Bonington served for such a short time? His retirement should be mentioned on his article. Who is the new guy? --Bduke (talk) 23:17, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Does 'British' here include the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish? If so, then HRH The Duke of Edinburgh is still the longest serving chancellor of a British university- Edinburgh (1953). The Princess may be the longest serving chancellor of an English university. Sorry for the pedantry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.82.26.117 (talk) 04:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Commercial guides
I removed a commercial website that pitches itself as an unofficial guide to the university because it uses advertisements for profit. I don't believe that this page should be used to advertise commercial websites. LUSU adverts should be used for advertising for profit websites, even if they are just local guides.

Logo/crest
I'm thinking these should switch places to that the normal logo is up top with the crest at the bottom (think it used to be like this?). The crest is very rarely used the the spire logo is the identity used on all letters, websites, signs etc. (I liken this to the way this article is called Lancaster University and not University of Lancaster, per discussion above). Nick Fel (talk) 19:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 03:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Colleges" :


 * Done. --Bduke (talk) 03:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

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Recent student guide changes
recent changes by Cheshire cat are in appropriate for an encyclopaedia, more appropriate for a freshers edition of SCAN. The edit is also refusing to discuss the matter here and is now on 4RR despite invitations to discuss and a warning. Now reported here

Naming of County College
I have reverted two instances where it said that County College is named after the County Palatine of Lancaster, which is redirect the Duchy of Lancaster. I was one of the first people in County College as first senior Tutor and then second Principal. My recollection is quite clear. It was named after the Lancashire County Council, who provided all the funds for the College building as their contribution to the new University. There was never any mention of the Duchy of Lancaster. The College coat of arms contains part of the arms of the Lancashire County Council. I have left this statement on The County College but asked for a source. This needs sourcing. The County College article in fact has no references. Pause! I have just found a source: "County college was the only college to be named after its benefactors rather than by a location in the area. The County council donated a generous sum of money towards its construction and promised to donate 50,000 a year for 10 years towards the university's running costs." http://www.lancs.ac.uk/unihistory/growth/countycollegelink.htm. I will fix everything up based on that. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  20:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd support that. Having entered in 1972 and at one time for my sins drafting a new constitution for the JCR it was a part of the College history.  -- Snowded  TALK  19:39, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Placement of Arms/corporate logo
I changed the placements of the arms and logo to place the arms at the top. This is consistent with the guidelines for the infobox which state: (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_University#Description) This was changed back and has subsequently been reverted to my edit. Before anyone changes the images to be inconsistent with the guidelines again it would be good if there could be a discussion as to why the guidelines should be disregarded in this case. Thanks! Jonny1047 (talk) 12:14, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * image_name [top image] - "preferably the university's official seal or logo"
 * logo [bottom image] - "Use for an athletics logo, corporate emblem, or similar graphic"

Why has the Wikipedia Lancaster University Facebook page changed back to the university's logo being displayed instead of the coat of arms? It was the coat of arms since the Wikipedia edit - and this looked a lot better, as most other universities have their coat of arms displayed as the image on their Wikipedia Facebook page. The Lancaster University Wikipedia article still displays the arms as the main article logo, but the Wikipedia Lancaster University Facebook page is back to displaying the spire logo? Change it back to the coat of arms please! Lokistorm1 (talk) 15:15, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

That's just because someone changed it back to that. Now that its been reverted to the coat of arms the facebook page will switch to that again - you just have to wait until facebook updates - its not instantaneous. Jonny1047 (talk) 16:52, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

As I posted up above somewhere, I believe the Lancaster page should show the spire logo up at the top because this is really the only crest associated with the university on a day to day basis (it might have been nice to update that discussion before changing it). In seven years at Lancaster I think the only place I saw the old shield was on my degree certificate. What Facebook shows is irrelevant, although I personally would much rather see the logo I know and associate with the university. NickTaylor3 (talk) 19:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

(PS. I appreciate that hasn't always been the case, and that for older alumni the shield might be synonymous with the university rather than the spire logo, but it seems to me that the visual identity represented on a wiki article should be the current and predominant one) NickTaylor3 (talk) 21:14, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I disagree, I don't believe that simply because the logo is associated with the university on a 'day to day basis' means that it should trump the crest and go against Wikipedia guidelines and common policy. Moreover, the logo can change (and probably will at some point in the future); whereas, the crest is permanent and has been ingrained since the birth of Lancaster University. In my opinion, the logo is too corporate-looking and doesn't represent the history and the aims of the university as the crest does. Lokistorm1 (talk) 22:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

By the way, can anyone get the university to provide them with the colour version of the crest for the Wikipedia article? Lokistorm1 (talk) 22:26, 9 February 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.102.45.130 (talk)

NickTaylor3, I know what you mean about the spire being the most used logo - I'm glad that the actual crest is on my degree certificate though! The crest is to some extent though - on the flag at the entrance to the uni, on sports team logos as well as being used on the new Lancaster award site (http://www.lancs.ac.uk/careers/award/) - though this is obviously not as much use as the spire. Even so, I don't see the need to disregard the policy just because the uni uses its corporate logo more, by definition I would imagine that most do. I think if there needs to be a change it should be done across the universities project so as to keep it consistent for all universities. Though since the policy does say "preferably the university's official seal" I suppose we could have a proper discussion and vote and see what people think. Oh, and I apologise that I didn't respond to your previous post before changing it - I just noticed the difference compared to other unis and just decided to "fix" it since there was a policy!

As far as a colour version is concerned crest versions are available on the uni website but they must be accessed from campus (I'm not sure if there is a colour version now (there wasn't the last time I checked)) - if anyone fancies having a look next time they are in the library! Jonny1047 (talk) 23:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)


 * When I say day-to-day use, what I'm really saying is that the crest is almost never, ever used, other than the very few examples we've named here. The spire really isn't a 'corporate logo' as you've referred to it -- it's the identity of the entire institution. Naturally logos can change, but any other wiki page normally reflects the current identity of the organisation in question and saves the history for the history section. Other universities, I suspect, use their two identities side-by-side much more than Lancaster does. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who knows how far back this holds true.


 * As for reflecting the university's history, the fact is that Lancaster is a modern university and the prevalence of the modern logo and name style (Lancaster University rather than University of Lancaster) reflects that heritage. If anything, rolling it out on graduation day seems like a slightly self-conscious attempt to inject some gravitas, which is a shame.


 * The one buried on the ISS page is also black and white and only marginally better quality than the one we have, though I'll upload it anyway when I have time. The lack of any better image on the website only reinforces how small a part it plays into the university's identity.


 * I'm actually genuinely surprised anyone who went there feels any affinity for it. Personally I was a bit miffed to see some random crest on my certificate. NickTaylor3 (talk) 14:01, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not going to swap it without further discussion, but I'm another who strongly feels that the logo should come first, not the crest. The logo is used everywhere, every day: letterheads, websites, signs - everything. The crest is only used extremely rarely, in the most formal contexts, such as degree certificates and the flag (itself flown rarely). Note that the University's own website and prospectuses don't use the crest at all; it doesn't appear on any signs. In short, the University doesn't identify itself with the crest at all.

The Lancaster Award does use the crest, but that's a slightly special case: a student won a competition to brand the scheme; it wasn't designed or approved by anyone involved in Uni marketing.

This isn't a case of Uni marketing pushing one logo whilst everyone really uses the crest - the crest is barely even known, and I'd say the most prominent use of it, anywhere in the world, is this Wikipedia page! Ministry (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

New photos needed?
Does anyone else think the article could do with a few up to date, more representative photos?

Thus far, they seem quite dated and mainly representing the university's brutalist architecture - with little inclusion of the more modern buildings and accommodation.

Obviously, the new sports centre and the Alexandra Square revamp can be added on completion.

I'm not that clear on Wikipedia's photo policy. Do the photos have to be our own or can we use ones located on the university's official website? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lokistorm1 (talk • contribs) 01:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * They have to be released under a free license. The ones located on the university's official website will be copyrighted by the university and therefore can only be used under the fair use guideline, which is rather restrictive. It is best if they are taken by wikimedians and put on Commons. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  05:12, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I took a few a week or so ago, but only of places where I had lived (County College, Pendle (briefly) and the Chaplaincy Centre. There are here and I am happy to load them up if you want to use any of them.  -- Snowded  TALK  06:33, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Colour Arms
University Arms in Colour I have scanned a colour version of the arms as no electronically created image seems to be around. Its not quite as good quality as the black and white one but at least it is in colour. I thought I should put it here first so anyone can raise objections. So does anyone have any objections to replacing the black and white version currently in use? Jonny1047 (talk) 19:46, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Opening statements
I am going through UK universities looking for the small elements of bias that sometimes creep in and trying to maintain some consistency in style. With this in mind I intend to remove the word "leading" from the opening sentence as it is not really appropriate sentiment for an encyclopaedia. This change would make it functionally consistent with the pages of Edinburgh, Cambridge, Oxford, UCL, Manchester, Imperial, Bristol, Royal Holloway and Warwick to name but a few, just in case you think I’m being unfair. Most are opting for definitions as "research intensive" or "public research university" in the opening line. As this is small I will make the change now but I hope you agree. IcyEd (talk) 04:27, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

George Fox Six
I've just removed this for the second time. Its not clear that its notable, if it is there are other incidents such as the Craig Affair and the '75 Occupation which are more significant. Snowded TALK 22:40, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Stop obsessing over policy, guidelines and other bureaucracy and focus on content instead. A major event in the university's recent history was on that page for a good 7 years, until you come along and unilaterally remove it. Sure, people have edited it down slowly but surely, removing all the sourced material but the content remained. You should also check up on policy, last I checked, all editors were equal, regardless of their username or IP. What makes you more important than me? Learn to edit properly, without making assumptions. I've re-added, in a more appropriate position, with sources and a bit more detail. It is relevant to the university, and was heavily reported in national media. It was also broadcast on North West Tonight, and on the radio stations in the area. The NUS and Liberty were supporters of the students, along with notable academics who signed a petition at the time (I can't post a direct link to it, as it is a filtered site here, but a google search for George Fox Six Petition will return it).-86.151.187.72 (talk) 21:59, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Cool it. FThere might be a case for a section on controversies in which case the other two cases I mention should be included but I doubt any of them are really notable in the broader scheme of things.   Happy to agree its referenced but so are many things.  I don't think its notable,  even if it was the entry is excessive.   What do other editors think?   Snowded  TALK 22:05, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There did used to be a controversy section, after a number of university staff members attempted to delete any mention of controversy at the university back in 2006 IIRC. It had issues regarding expansion at the time as well as other aspects. The section was obviously heavily edited down to this single blurb and then moved into a rather odd section, although I could see a tenuous link there somewhere, as the conference at the time was over venture capitalist funding for research, discussing changing the way the university funded students doing PhDs and the like, but as I say, its tenuous.
 * Also, saying I should cool it is funny, considering you basically said my view was invalid simply because I post from an IP. As you like instantly linking to policy when someone posts on your talk page, take a look at this essay WP:HUMAN.
 * Now, as I say, on notability, it was a nationally reported incident covered in the Guardian, TES, on a BBC News show, (as mentioned), along with local media coverage. It was even brought up again by LUSU in 2011 when the vice chancellor announced his retirement.
 * Why do you say it isn't notable?-86.151.187.72 (talk) 22:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

I am happy with the paragraph as it now is, but I agree with the point at the top of this section that the Craig Affair was much more notable and a much bigger media splash. I refer to the affair in 1972 if I recall the year correctly. I was a member of staff then and on the University Council. It was a big agenda item on Council for many meetings. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  22:29, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It should be added to the article then. There is at least one book about it which could be used for some sourcing, and there's a slightly less notable entry in the online newsletter 'subtext' by David Craig too.-86.151.187.72 (talk) 22:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed Brian - I was one of the "Lancaster 25" (expelled and reinstated) in 1975 and it was all over the press. At one point Adereth, Threfeld and myself threatened to throw Charles Clark (then NUS President) into the canal if he didn't provide more support!  Happy days.  The Craig Affair was 1971 I think.  We really need some references on both.   Snowded  TALK 23:11, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The Craig affair was in the 1971 - 72 academic year. I was away on sabbatical at Oxford, but returned for every Council meeting and it was discussed at most of them, if I recall correctly. Do you have access to the book mentioned above. I do not here in Australia. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  23:23, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Lancaster University → ? – Should be University of Lancaster, we have a reference for that being the official name. We need consistency in UK university articles. See University of Oxford, for example. All the universities that are officially "University of X" also have a colloquial "X University" equivalent. We should use the correct names in the encyclopedia - they are hardly difficult to get your head around. Itsmejudith (talk) 14:47, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose I agree. The University of Lancaster redirects to Lancaster University. That should be reversed. Change my view based on arguments below. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  20:11, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose There is already consistency with UK university articles - they'e virtually all at the current brand name that's actually used rather than the formal charter name when these differ. Timrollpickering (talk) 21:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose. Their website seems to indicate Lancaster University as it's most common name (WP:COMMONNAME)... Srsrox (talk) 21:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. I would suspect most people just say (and always have said) "I'm at Foo University" or just "I'm at Foo" and recently there has been a tendency for British universities to be oh-so-trendy and adopt the shortened form as their marketing name. However, the "University of Foo" title is, in most cases, still the official name, still the name on official documents and still the name on degree certificates. It's also the name that many of us who went to university before this unfortunate dumbing down exercise began still use when referring to their alma maters. This shortened form is simply used for marketing purposes with the assumption that modern yoof will see "University of Foo" as old-fashioned. It doesn't mean we should use it too. If WP:COMMONNAME is being used to support this, then in fact we should probably use Lancaster (university), as that's how most of its students probably refer to it (and always have done). Being as that's clearly silly, I think we should revert to University of Lancaster as being correct and still used by the vast majority of its graduates, bearing in mind it had an existence long before hip modern branding appeared on the scene in the last few years. What would you put on a CV? I'd certainly put "University of Foo", not "Foo University". I suspect most others would too. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment If we're going for WP:COMMONNAME, how about Lancky Uni?  No, before anyone bites, that wasn't a serious suggestion.  Skinsmoke (talk) 04:53, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Coat of Arms removed?
Why has the coat of arms as the article's main image been removed? Can someone re-add it please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lokistorm1 (talk • contribs) 11:18, 12 October 2013 (UTC)


 * I didn't remove it, but I certainly support its removal. The coat of arms is used on degree certificates and... absolutely nothing else.
 * See the discussion, above, about whether Wikipedia should use the formal, rarely-used 'University of Lancaster' or the constantly-used 'Lancaster University'. The same WP:COMMONNAME principle applies to the coat of arms (obscure) and standard logo (routine).
 * If someone does re-add it, I propose that it's displayed low on the page, and emphatically not as the primary image. Ministry (talk) 16:10, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * The Coat of Arms is used on the university's new logo -- HazhkTalk 15:47, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

No. A red-and-grey variant of the Arms appears in the logo, alongside text - the Coat of Arms still isn't the logo, particularly not with the text omitted. The same WP:COMMONNAME argument about giving priority to the one which is actually used still applies.

The Arms is incidental, only seen by graduates on their degree certificates, and absolutely nowhere else. This Wikipedia page is the only time I've seen it in years, which only diminishes the page as an accurate description of its subject.

I'd strongly support reverting this change, and putting the correct logo back at the top. I'm a little uncomfortable about doing it myself: though I don't represent the University at Wikipedia, it is my employer, so I try to avoid any edits which might be seen as a conflict of interest. Ministry (talk) 16:13, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

New photos
It has been almost a year since any new photos were uploaded. I don't have a digital camera, but if someone could take the time to take some photos I think we could do with photos of: 1) the new sports centre 2) LICA 3) Bailrigg House (as an example of one of the only pre-60s buildings on campus) 4) more college accommodation such as the Grizedale townhouses and any other relevant photos. Probably also an idea to take them on a relatively sunny day - which is going to be difficult at this time of the year! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lokistorm1 (talk • contribs) 20:58, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Your wish fulfilled- enjoy.-- Clem Rutter (talk) 21:36, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

First JCR
This was added to Lancaster University incorrectly by 122.60.249.173:-
 * No, the first JCR was on the first floor of the old Waring and Gillow factory. It was in the University's second year that the church became part of the University). I was a student in the first year of the university.
 * I was a staff member in the Waring and Gillow factory in the University's third year and I think this comment is probably correct, but it needs a source. -- Bduke   (Discussion)  21:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

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Halls of residence on campus
This article could mention the halls of residence on campus, such as County or Fylde. Vorbee (talk) 19:57, 1 July 2018 (UTC)