Talk:Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada

NPOV problems
This article has NPOV problems, it read like a love letter to the authors, and doesn't make certain facts clear. I fixed some of it it, but still needs work. The Montgomery and Giambi things are true but the Jones is not proven and disputed. It was stated here in the article as though it is a fact which violates WP Living. Quadzilla99 13:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've put this article on my watchlist so comment here to discuss this and I'll respond. Quadzilla99 13:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Considering that despite winning an award for reporting, not one allegation against Bonds has advanced an iota since publication (15 months) and no one in the media has bothered to check they're "I'm not making money" claims, I concur that it's NPOV. --Buckboard 08:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Problem with article topic
This article topic is a problem. Mark Fainaru-Wada has recently co-authored a new award-winning book with a different co-author. Do we now create a second article for Mark Fainaru-Wada? It's non-standard. Mark Fainaru-Wada needs his own stand-alone biography article. I see this was done 7+ years ago so I doubt anyone is watching anymore, and I don't have time to mess around with it but for the record:


 * 2014 PEN/ESPN Award for Literary Sports Writing for League of Denial (co-authored with Steve Fainaru).

Maybe someone can figure out how to add this to Wikipedia, somewhere. -- Green  C  15:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The recent work is League of Denial (2013).


 * This is not yet a joint biography of Williams and Fainaru-Wada, but coverage of issues related to their one joint project. I infer that they don't work together generally (not a duo except in relation to the matter of this page), so development as a joint biography is inappropriate (unless they are a couple). Separate biography is the way to go, but only if some biographical treatment is warranted.
 * If biography of Fainaru-Wada is warranted, this article might be converted, perhaps with some if its coverage exported to the book article Game of Shadows (many book articles cover such related issues). Each of his co-authors might be covered briefly with personal redirects that point here.


 * I expanded the personal redirect . There is none for either of his collaborators Lance Williams (Lance Malafa Williams, born 1950) or Steve Fainaru.


 * --P64 21:41 --P64 (talk) 21:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * --P64 21:41 --P64 (talk) 21:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * --P64 21:41 --P64 (talk) 21:49, 28 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have expanded the former redirect Mark Fainaru-Wada into a stand-alone article, as he meets WP:AUTHOR and WP:GNG: sufficient third party coverage about him and his biography outside of the BALCO scandal (although of course he derived much notoriety from that). As co-creator of League of Denial, he further merits a distinct article. I do think this joint biography is somewhat problematic, and certainly some content can be added to Mark Fainaru-Wada (keeping WP:PROPORTION in mind) and/or re-allocated to other articles on the subject, but will defer to other editors more knowledgeable on the subject. Note also, Steve Fainaru now has an article.  --Animalparty! (talk) 08:01, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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Proposed page-name fix
The actual lawsuit is United States v. Fainaru-Wada.

But I think in this case it can be rendered United States v. Williams and Fainaru-Wada for the purposes of this page title.

Lance Williams (journalist) can redirect here.

The main topic of the lede then becomes the legal action.

If Lance isn't worth his own page, then he can be treated in the lead here as a second formal topic (with his own bold item), which can briskly link to Fainaru-Wada's actual page as well (but not in bold, that's gross and against the MOS). Fainaru-Wada is probably linked already in the primary lede item, but I'd just link him again, so that whichever place the reader starts, it's right there.

As this page title stands, it's so grotesquely non-standard, I don't think it's helping anyone navigate, expand, or organize the content. &mdash; MaxEnt 22:45, 24 March 2019 (UTC)