Talk:Land of Fire/Archive 2

Tobi
Tobi is not Uchiha Madara, just wants to achieve that power of Madara. \

well we don't know in other sites have different wording in different sites but lets wait for more issues to come out and see /neverknown

The Exact statement he used was "The Sharingan's true power ... My Power ... Uchiha Madara's Power ..." We won't know what is true or false until more information about Tobi is revealed. However, The whole bit with "Akatsuki member Tobi later reveals himself to be Madara, the mastermind behind the organization." in Land_of_Fire is false, He is not the mastermind behind the organization. As the wiki states, "Tobi became a full Akatsuki member after Sasori's death." //KnightAR


 * It's possible that he is the mastermind, and that that was a cover up for some other thing. But that, in turn, is just a theory. The only thing we've found out about Tobi from the most recent chapter is that he can be serious and is not just a goofball, and he has at least one Sharingan eye. IzzyFerret 01:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

.....I noticed that page 18 where Tobi is shown as the mastermind it mentions Madara's but Tobi never actually calls himself Madara Uchiha the only reason I think he said "Madara's power" that is because Madara is one of the founding members of the Uchiha clan. anyway having at least one Sharingan eye especially seens it's the right eye could be Obito Uchiha-this has been a message by GasSnake or Poison Oak 02:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it might be likely that Tobi is Madara but it is in no way confirmed in the chapter. Tobi simply says he has the power of Madara, that could mean anything.

That could mean he went to his grave and consumed his body like Kabuto did with orochimaru--GasSnake or Poison Oak 05:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Tobi and Madara
We cannot put that Tobi is Madara. The statement he makes states that Madara's power is his and is too vague to prove he's Madara. Vague statements can't be used as proof on Wikipedia.Darth G 03:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Read this. Specifically the great kawa's post. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 03:21, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It's still too vague and too disputed. We cannot put he's Madara without undisputible proof.Darth G 03:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It is not vague, and has been clearly outlined. Your argument has already been refuted in that discussion. I'm not going to continue this if you continue to be stubborn on the matter. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 03:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It would make more sense if he was talking about Madara and not about being Madara if you think about the fact that he's talking about the Sharingan's True Power and capturing the Bijuu. Seems like he's talking about getting power doesn't he? Someone theorized that that the bijuu and the sharingan are linked, and this is evidence towards that fact. Also think about when Sasuke got into Naruto's mind and neutralized Kyuubi for the time being, and when they fought as kids, the Kyubbi power bypassed Sasuke's Sharingan at the time. I think he's talking about restoring his sharingan to the original power it had, the original power Uchiha Madara had, which he obtained from Kyuubi possibly. All of the Kekkai Gekkai's may be related to Bijuu if you think about it...

Clans need their own page
This is ridiculous. It takes me a half an hour to find the clans page, and that's only when I remember where it's located at. It should have a link at Kekkei Genkai, and a link at the bottom next to Geography, or Kekkai Genkai. They need their own page, because:


 * 1) It very difficult to find, unless you know where you are looking.
 * 2) Lesses up the article space, espicially when all the main clans are in Konoha (Land Of Fire), you can just a link to the clan page, and then a section reserved for Konoha's clans.
 * 3) The clans are a very ignored aspect of wikipedia, and need a lot of polishing no doubt, giving them a entire page dedicted to clans, gives them the oppurtunity to focused on a bit more, and be spit-shined.
 * 4) Again, easy access, all the clans would be in one spot, and seperated by countries, and thus, you would have to bob from page to page, if you were researching about Naruto clans. Just click, click, click, and all the information is in one spot.

So Discuess if this is good or bad. If no one responds by July next year, then I shall take action into my own hands. User:Goldenliquid 01:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Not enough information on them to warrant a page. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * How so, Uchiha, and Hyuga would probably take up a lot right there. User:Goldenliquid 02:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Obviously not, or we wouldn't have merged them to begin with. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think if you put all the clans in the series on one page it would be long enough, but a page per clan wouldn't work Gailim 07:52, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Page protected
I've protected because of the reverting and 3RR violations. Please try to work it out on talk, and let me know when you're ready to start editing again. Cheers, SlimVirgin  (talk) (contribs) 22:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Since you've protected it I suppose you or someone of your rank wouldn't mind fixing allthe links since pages this page leads to are being changed. (Tobi) if your wondering.Deblow 20:25, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

New character
In Chapter 367, Tsunade, while conversing with jiraya, mentions a Kushina Uzumaki. Now, I'm not going to speculate, and I'm not going to theorize, but, I think she should be mentioned in here under villagers. Based on what Tsunade said, it seems that she is or was exactly like Naruto, in terms of personality. That is all. Busboy 06:12, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Uzumaki Kushina was not stated to be a member of Konoha; she was only stated to be a member of the old Whirlpool Country. This claim cannot be made until more information is given. RoundMoundOfRebound 17:38, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Dispute over Uchiha Madara is Tobi connection
This is a continuance of a previous dispute found in other refernce discussions. The fact is that the wording found in one chapter of the Naruto manga is too far vague to make a definitive assessment that Tobi is Uchiha Madara. The interpretation could be said that Tobi is refering to the "power" of Uchiha Madara, and not himself as Uchiha Madara. And even whoever much some people may disagree and demand that Tobi is Uchiha Madara. It is rather imprudent to have it written into this wiki as fact, without definitive proof other than through a single minor panel and a single line. I wish to change the statement to where it says something like "Tobi may have referred to himself as Uchiha Madara or was referring to the power of Uchiha Madara in front of Pein and Kadon." I believe this will be a more even handed and fair asssessment of the context of the translated Japanese until more proof is given to either case or Tobi's character is further elaborated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psypho (talk • contribs) 20:51, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

I agree with your statement; He-Man has the power of Greyskull, but he himself is not Greyskull; you can have the power of someone and not be that person. RoundMoundOfRebound 17:40, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation needed
Someone with access to this page, please add a second disambiguation notice at the top of the article:
 * Forest of Death redirects here. For the 2007 Hong Kong film, see Forest of Death (film)''.

Thank you. — WiseKwai 09:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 13:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, one left
The edit war that resulted in this article's protection was frankly even more lame than the ones at List of Konoha ninja and Naruto Uzumaki, and I believe it can be resolved now. Numerous Japanese translators have approved the interpretation of Tobi's statement to mean that he is referring to himself as Uchiha Madara. Below is the reasoning that has so far not been refuted: "Alright, I'll clear this up for the people who are clueless as to Japanese. I am no expert, but I am taking the JLPT and I have studied Japanese and act as an amateur translator. What Tobi says exactly is:「写輪眼の本当の力が・・・このうちはマダラの力が 」Which in roumaji transliterates to 'Sharingan no hontou no chikara ga...kono Uchiha Madara no chikara ga.' Which in English literally means: 'The Sharingan's true power...this/that, Uchiha Madara's power.' Now, I and other amateur translators suggested on the forums where this Japanese was discussed that it meant he was referring to the 'power of Uchiha Madara' which meant the Sharingan or something like that. However, expert translators and native Japanese have said that the 'kono' which is usually used as a demonstrative adjective for 'this/that (object)' is used sort of as a pronoun in reference to himself (a supervillain way, some translators said as when Zabuza said 'Kono Momochi Zabuza' to refer to say 'I am Momochi Zabuza') and his power. And the translation has been looked at over and over again by experts in Japanese and that seems to be the general consensus. So, wisen up and accept the translation! The great kawa 01:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)" As there has been no opposition to this statement other than a reasonless "no, you're wrong," or references to poorer translations, then let's gather the consensus to get this page unprotected so we can move on from this debacle. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 06:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Valley of the End
Should the Valley of the End be included in this article? After all, it was the battleground of Naruto and Sasuke's Part I fight and it is notable enough as the First Hokage had defeated Madara Uchiha there. I'd like to include it here, but the page is protected and I don't have enough information to go on with.  σмgн gσмg  11:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the image of the Valley I added is causing some trouble. It is illustrative, lo-res and has no actual characters, so it is fair game I say (otherwise we should remove Konoha's pic, and let's face it, that would be silly). I added it again, please don't remove it without citing reasons here first. I'm not trying to start a edit war, just think it is worth a shot, and I think it is worth the civilized discussion. Any thoughts? Kohitsuji-no-bushi 05:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Valley of the End is an excessively minor topic within the Naruto universe, and we are to keep use of fair use images to an absolute minimum. Illustrating each and every minor topic would not be would not be a minimum usage. ~SnapperTo 19:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, granted. It is a minor aspect, but it is still part of what marks the connection between Naruto-Sasuke and The First-Madara. It is a important context. The image serves to illustrate, and eliminating every images to keep an "absolute minimum" is terribly disruptive of the original purpose of Wikipedia. By the way, that's just feedback, I'm not accusing you of anything, I know it is not your call, but we, as users, must be part of those who seek balance in such affairs. On the note of it being excessively minor, I'm not so sure I agree...the battle marks the climax of the entire "hen" and also the turning point of the manga...think about it.


 * Also on a similar note but other topic, the bit that states that the Naruto-Sasuke battle symbolizes the previous battle feels a little bit odd. It hasn't been explicitly stated that it did symbolize that, just that the battle was in the same place and in similar conditions. There is a connection, just not sure if it is a symbolic one. Kohitsuji-no-bushi 21:51, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Madara Uchiha image
Seeing as Madara has been depicted in person in chapter 370, should a scan of him be added to this page? 66.24.226.134 00:49, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * He doesn't need one. Tobi is Madara and until he removes his mask we don't have a current look for him. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:57, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is, however, an image within the manga that many sources have referred to as Madara Uchiha. The reliability of these sources seems debatable, as mistranslations have caused a good deal of discussion (such as the "Uchiha Madara's power" debate); perhaps someone could determine the legitimacy of these sources? 66.24.226.134 01:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * http://naruto-xx.blogspot.com/2007/09/naruto-370-pics.html
 * http://bp1.blogger.com/_VkIbHKDK5Dg/RulRWVSlhEI/AAAAAAAAAvw/IIefO6gUCkI/s1600-h/Naruto+370+Spoiler+Pics+and+Summaries+4.jpg
 * http://naruto-xx.blogspot.com/
 * http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/370/16/
 * http://mfgforums.com/forums/t/29600.aspx
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki6UWLRQPOQ


 * I added a scan to the page but this asshole called Halstrom deleted it, came to my talkpage and told me it sucked.


 * A)I didn't delete your picture, look in the edit logs and you will that I never edited the picture. B) The picture quality sucked. C) I was going to delete it, but Someguy got to it first! And D) Sign your comments with 4 ~'s! Halstrom 19:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

To Akatsuki and Beyond?
Would anyone object to combining Madara's entry with Tobi's? Aside from the still-circulating debate over which translation is correct, they are decidedly the same person, and there's little reason for one character to be split amongst two articles. ~SnapperTo 03:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Do so. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 03:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I object, they are not necessarily the same person, the link has yet to to be proven. Admeister200x, 15 September 2007

What are you talking about? How many signs do they have to give people Tobi is MADARA! In chapter 370 when Jiraiya was talking about Madara, Tobi's appeared right on the Statue which he said to be Uchiha Madara and the many other evidence. So his and Tobi's article should me merged because they are the same person. Yxgtree 14:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Yakumo Kurama
Reading through the page, I happened to notice that Yakumo Kurama's section was longer than it needs to be. I personally tried to shorten it, but got lost in all the details already in it. If someone would be kind enough to shorten it, please do so.

Madara Uchiha
I have just cleaned up/corrected the section on Madara Uchiha since it had a lot of spelling/grammar mistakes in it, as well as parts that made it sound as though it was being told from a first person perspective. Admeister200x, 15th September 2007

Could someone cite Madara Uchiha's section. I don't remember reading any of that stuff ever before and it sounds like it's either speculation or even fan fiction. It does sound cool, I'm just not sure if it's true. If a citation cannot be found it should be cut. azulsquall, 15th September 2007

Madara uchiha history reavled about bygugon and madara's past on youtube its true.
it al makes sense the reason was he diudnt want to know he was half demon. his mother married shabobjo the tengu god and in old historyt a clabn orginated out of demon the dsemon halving power of bloodlines or kekkei genkai simplar word. When he later became a great shinobi and inhereaed the byagyukgon from his mother. Soon in battle he hurt him self and the bllod of his father spread on the byagukgon and created the sharingon and mongekyou sharingan. Shabobjo wanted to take control of his sons body to rules eartyh whuich was the reason he married his mother taking the shape of a man. Madara soon found this out and meet the demon fox. After defeatring the fox he decided to leand all his chakra. Shobjo was soojn sealed by him but not completley leaving the clans secrets. He dint wwant the first hokage to know he was half demon so he ran away. The first found madadra and defeated him by using his demon conraol jutsu to seal teh demon fox in a scrool which he soon summoned latyer bin his life. Itachi soon after lkearneing teh secrets of the mangekyou knowinmg that 2 living users were alive killed his own clan and told saskue to get the ramaing 1 so that the 3 could someone Shabajo. That i saw on yoputube it is real trust me Dark history of madadar uchiha. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blanknothingoknaruto (talk • contribs) 22:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Youtube = animated Fanfic.net when it comes to anime/manga-related material. Don't believe a word of it unless it is official animation.  You Can '  t See Me!  22:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. And as a note: Blanknothingoknaruto please use better spelling and grammar! It's really annoying to have read something that looks like it's written by a 2nd grader! Somewhere a grammar and an English teacher cry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Halstrom (talk • contribs) 22:51, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The Youtube video was based off Yasha's post on Narutofan, seen here: http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=106576 Note that it's posted under the theories section.  That said, the guy seems to have done a good job.  Wish he cited his sources better so we could tell where he was pulling some of these terms from. –Gunslinger47 23:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Blocking
I think this page should be locked so unregistered members can't vandalize it with fanon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.246.2 (talk) 13:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

redirect
this was redirected without any discussion I can find to Nartuto. in any case a slightly more appropriate redirect would have been to Nauto Universe, but more important, this was called a merge, and too much material was lost. I'm reverting it back. discuss it here. DGG (talk) 16:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)