Talk:Land of Oz

Untitled
I removed the line *In the same book, the backstory of Gayelette and Quelala, to explain the Golden Cap, concludes with their deaths, that allowed the cap to fall into the Wicked Witch's hands* because this is untrue. The text from the book in question from the originating creator and author is as follows:

''“There lived here then, away at the North, a beautiful princess, who was also a powerful sorceress. All her magic was used to help the people, and she was never known to hurt anyone who was good. Her name was Gayelette, and she lived in a handsome palace built from great blocks of ruby. Everyone loved her, but her greatest sorrow was that she could find no one to love in return, since all the men were much too stupid and ugly to mate with one so beautiful and wise. At last, however, she found a boy who was handsome and manly and wise beyond his years. Gayelette made up her mind that when he grew to be a man she would make him her husband, so she took him to her ruby palace and used all her magic powers to make him as strong and good and lovely as any woman could wish. When he grew to manhood, Quelala, as he was called, was said to be the best and wisest man in all the land, while his manly beauty was so great that Gayelette loved him dearly, and hastened to make everything ready for the wedding.My grandfather was at that time the King of the Winged Monkeys which lived in the forest near Gayelette's palace, and the old fellow loved a joke better than a good dinner. One day, just before the wedding, my grandfather was flying out with his band when he saw Quelala walking beside the river. He was dressed in a rich costume of pink silk and purple velvet, and my grandfather thought he would see what he could do. At his word the band flew down and seized Quelala, carried him in their arms until they were over the middle of the river, and then dropped him into the water. Swim out, my fine fellow, cried my grandfather, and see if the water has spotted your clothes. Quelala was much too wise not to swim, and he was not in the least spoiled by all his good fortune. He laughed, when he came to the top of the water, and swam in to shore. But when Gayelette came running out to him she found his silks and velvet all ruined by the river. The princess was angry, and she knew, of course, who did it. She had all the Winged Monkeys brought before her, and she said at first that their wings should be tied and they should be treated as they had treated Quelala, and dropped in the river. But my grandfather pleaded hard, for he knew the Monkeys would drown in the river with their wings tied, and Quelala said a kind word for them also; so that Gayelette finally spared them, on condition that the Winged Monkeys should ever after do three times the bidding of the owner of the Golden Cap. This Cap had been made for a wedding present to Quelala, and it is said to have cost the princess half her kingdom. Of course my grandfather and all the other Monkeys at once agreed to the condition, and that is how it happens that we are three times the slaves of the owner of the Golden Cap, whosoever he may be. And what became of them? asked Dorothy, who had been greatly interested in the story. Quelala being the first owner of the Golden Cap, replied the Monkey, he was the first to lay his wishes upon us. As his bride could not bear the sight of us, he called us all to him in the forest after he had married her and ordered us always to keep where she could never again set eyes on a Winged Monkey, which we were glad to do, for we were all afraid of her. This was all we ever had to do until the Golden Cap fell into the hands of the Wicked Witch of the West, who made us enslave the Winkies, and afterward drive Oz himself out of the Land of the West. Now the Golden Cap is yours, and three times you have the right to lay your wishes upon us. As the Monkey King finished his story Dorothy looked down and saw the green, shining walls of the Emerald City before them. She wondered at the rapid flight of the Monkeys, but was glad the journey was over. The strange creatures set the travelers down carefully before the gate of the City, the King bowed low to Dorothy, and then flew swiftly away, followed by all his band.”''

No where in this, the only story of Gaylette in Baum's canon, does it say or even loosely imply that she or Quelala died. 72.193.255.94 (talk) 10:45, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

-

I removed the fictional category template becuase Oz is technically not a country, its a region containing countries.--The_stuart 17:55, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I think that's incredibly silly of you. Oz matches most of the criteria for what a typical person would call a fictional country. The categorization scheme is not meant to be an exact scientific tool, it's meant as a reference guide. Would you remove zuchinni and eggplants from the category of vegetables, because technically they're fruit? Suit yourself, I think the way categories currently function on Wikipedia is too confused anyway for me to expend much energy on questions like this, but I think if anything should be in the category of Fictional Countries, Oz is a prime example. --Woggly 07:29, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * To answer your question yes I would remove zuchinni and eggplants from the category of vegtable because they are technically fruit or at least make a very clear point some where in the article of this fact. If you want to categorize Oz as a fictional country go ahead, but it's misinformation.--The_stuart 16:31, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Actually, Oz, IS a country. The four "countries" are equivalent to US states, with the Emerald City as its capital. Ozma rules ALL of Oz. Remember, Baum was creating an American fairy tale, and based Oz upon the United States's layout. If each "country" was a seperate nation, why would Ozma rule over them all? --[[User:JonMoore|&mdash;Jo nMo ore  20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)]] 05:38, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. According to wiktionary, a country is "a nation state, a political entity asserting ultimate authority over a large geographical area," which is definitely Oz. There's also a definition that says "a former independent nation state (e.g., England or Scotland)" so perhaps that's what Munchkinland etc. are, but just because Wales and Scotland are countries doesn't mean that the U.K., by the first definition, is not.--Signor Giuseppe 15:12, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Oz
I have created a new WikiProject about Oz: WikiProject Oz. I hope to create a community to help guide the continued development of the articles about the series and its authors, characters, etc. toward even more quality articles. If you are interested, please add your name under the "Participants section" and please leave any comments or questions on the project's talk page or my user talk page. &mdash; [[User:JonMoore|&mdash;Jo nMo ore  20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)]] 23:50, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

urrh...

"Perceptive cartographers will notice that on some maps of Oz, the west is drawn on the right-hand side of the map, and the east is drawn on the left-hand side, though north is still at the top and south at the bottom of the map. The compass rose on these maps is adjusted accordingly. "

This text appears directly below a map with the inverted east-westness, but NOT the inverted compass rose.

Someone may want to deal with this. I don't want to. However, for one opinion, Robert Heinlein suggests (claims, really) in his novel The Number of the Beast (which includes a jaunt to Oz in the storyline) that the directions really ARE reversed, and that east is west and west is east. Of course, this would just mean that Oz-Planet rotates the opposite direction from Earth (but would contradict suggestions that Nonestica is on Earth).

Dodger 23:11, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Does it matter? The purpose of catagories is to make articles easier to find, not to satisfy the OCD compulsions of editors.

Is Oz History?
Although many authors of the period in which the Oz books were written did set up the pretense that their protagonists were real in some way, Baum did so at his convenience. In the preface to at least one book, he credits his readers with helping him to come up with the story. By the time he had written 5 books in the series, he had had enough and wanted to write something else. So at the end of "The Emerald City of Oz", he has the land of Oz separated from the rest of the world. That way, when his young fans would ask for more Oz stories, he could simply say that he hasn't been in contact with Oz to get the latest news, instead of telling them the harsh truth that he didn't want to write about that anymore. The preface to "The Patchwork Girl of Oz" simply allows him to take back that pronouncement and write more Oz stories. He does mention a telegraphic dialogue with Dorothy in one of his other prefaces, but he makes no serious effort to enforce the reality of his characters.Qit el-Remel (talk •  contribs) 08:02, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Origins of name
''This version of Ozian history is problematic in that the Wizard named the country after himself even though it had been known as Oz and its rulers had been named Ozma for perhaps millennia. It is more likely that the story of the Wizard naming the land after himself is a type of retroactive continuity or revisionist history that attempted to explain the etymology of the name without a complete previous knowledge.''

It's been a while since I read it, so I may be misremembering, but doesn't this get discussed in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz? If I recall correctly, the explanation there is that the Wizard thought he'd named the country after himself, but it was actually a coincidence. Daibhid C 23:05 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That's correct. In book 4, Ozma says that the word Oz means good or great in an "old language." To my knowledge, this is the one of two references to an "old language" in the entire series. But in my reading anyway, not only is it unclear that it was called Oz before Diggs, but weather or not Oscar Diggs called it anything anything at all. --Mattbloom 19:37, 07 August 2007 (UTC)

Another note by someone else: I'm not familiar with the Oz universe, but it seems to me that the renaming of Oz is more accurately described as a backronym, not as an example of retroactive continuity or revisionist history. --MikeBob 07:33, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe, Oz refers to Fate, as in Zion or "the world to come", the place technology takes us ultimately. numerologically, oz (ignoring vowels as its normally done) = FaTe, both add up to 26. although of course numerology is tricky because of taking in to account various linguistic roots, (but i'm quite sure there is a clear code, it IS in there somewhere!) i believe zion could be "Numinous Oz", hence the "white (shining) city" of colombian orgin as mentioned earlier in this page, why the bbc studios in britain were built in a place called white city in north west london, also there's the allusion in the modern mythology of american comics of the emerald city of the Green Lantern, the Krypton of Superman origin, hence green kryptonite, the judaic mythology invoked by siegel and shuster, this is all a big MAYBE of course, i'm just putting it out there. the concrescence also, as mentioned by Alfred North Whitehead, who is referred to by Terence McKenna and Alan Watts. I hope this makes sense to someone somehow, out there, who can put this gobbledegook together so it makes sense! Thank You. Natmanprime (talk) 20:20, 5 April 2012 (UTC) 212.139.233.209 (talk) 20:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Is the Emerald City emerald?
I love this article - came across it via Clifford Pickover's site. One point, though: In the first book, the Emerald City is not really emerald, but merely appears that way because the Wizard obliges everyone to wear green glasses. In subsequent books, however, it seems pretty clear that the city really is emerald. Should this be mentioned in the article? Adambrowne666 21:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi - I finally found the passage I was thinking of: it's in The Emerald City of Oz, aptly enough, in the second paragraph of Chapter 3: 'The Emerald City is built all of beautiful marbles in which are set a profusion of emeralds, every one exquisitely cut and of very great size.' - so in this book the Emerald City is made of emeralds, at least in part... Adambrowne666 22:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The Wizard wasn't the best ruler. The Emerald City had emeralds both before and after his reign, but for some reason one needed green glasses during the Wizardean Period. Ozma refurnished the Emerald City during the earlier years of her reign, I think it's mentioned in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz, when the Wizard comes back and is forgiven.-LDHL--67.160.239.65 12:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Dorothy's MGM Dream
I always have to correct people. There is no evidence that Dorothy was or wasn't dreaming in the MGM film. All the adults say she has a bump on her head which would be true if the window was still broken, which it isn't - that's KEY - the magic of the Ruby slippers one assumes restored her house. Most importantly, Dorothy earnestly corrects the adults that they are wrong, that she really was there, but finishes, that it doesn't matter because now she is home. It could be a dream, but it's left very open...--67.160.239.65 12:14, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Glinda's Explanation
I deleted a bit about the MGM Glinda. She clearly states that "Dorothy had the power all along, but she had to find it out for herself". Dorothy explains what she has learned. The Slippers are mysteriously powerful in both book and film, as aside from zapping the witch (movie), and being comfortable (the book), they are only once used to send Dorothy home. It's logical to assume they wouldn't have worked if Dorothy not only believed they would, but also sincerely wished to return home.--67.160.239.65 12:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Wiki style guide not followed....
I love Baum's books as well as anyone else here, but there's a definite problem with the fact that this entry is completely written in-universe. It's written as if Oz is a real place several times throughout the article. If you feel I'm just blowing hot-air, please refer to WP:WAF. WAF has several good examples of how this should be written, but I'd also like to point out one article, Bulbasaur, part of another project I've been working on. That is how you talk about fictional characters and places, not this. Any comments? Zappernapper 22:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, this needs a total rewrite to conform to that standard. Goldfritha 00:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've completely rewritten the History section and the introduction. How's it look? 172.165.196.145 20:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Good work, though I've done some tweaking on the prose - hope that's okAdambrowne666 07:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Certainly an improvement and it looks great overall. But I am wondering, which books describe the EC as made out of Emerald? Are you sure this isn't a inconsistency introduced by Thompson? 172.149.128.85 06:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure, because I've only read the Baum books -- I remember noting it when I first read it, because one of the things I like about the Oz books is their inconsistencies - there's something so beautifully slapdash about them - a making-it-up-as-you-go-along feel. I can't work out which book it was in though -- I'm happy to have it taken out of the article until someone else can come up with a citation. Adambrowne666 04:16, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've just recently started reading Oz books by author authors--the public domain ones. I made a list of inconsistencies as I read, but I can't remember if the EC was in it. I did look through a few of the earlier books lately, and all that describe the city agree on marble up to Road, which mentions emerald walls, and (I believe) gates, as well as marble sidewalks and gold-plated houses. Perhaps that was the turning point in Baum's mind? 172.149.126.135 23:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It's my understanding that in the first two books anyway, it was made of marble, with emeralds embedded in the walls, but that there were tall spires of emeralds on some of the buildings. Jinjar in book two and her girl army are actually seen pulling them out of the buildings and walk ways. The city seems to evolve though, like everything post Ozma. Even the geography changes, at least twice with no explanation (see geographic markers in books 1,3,6,and 9 for an example what I'm talking about). jmathewbloom 02:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Touched it up a bit more, especially the section on death, and a new section on the portrayal of Oz in the movie. I'm sure I've made a few mistakes, so I'd be glad if people took a look and patched things up a bit. It would also be nice if people added to the alternate Oz section. I think Laumer, Volkov, and A Barnstormer in Oz should be added, but I haven't actually read any of those books. I could add The Number of the Beast but I'm not sure it has enough Oz in it to warrant inclusion, and I'm not sure it really differs all that much from Baum's Oz. I think the only major difference is the one that's already mentioned in the map section. 172.130.94.10 17:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Geology
Not only is this entirely in universe -- is any of this in the books, as opposed to being speculation? Fun though it may be to treat the work as if the world-building is good and needs only to be explained, it is not suitable for Wikipedia. Goldfritha 00:50, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * this is actually why i've been unwilling to do anything major, even ignoring it for a while. There is so much that would have to be cut becuase i don't really have the sources to back anything up. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 19:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's been given references -- but are those to mines and the like in the books, or merely allusions to the gems? I think the later; I will have to check.  Goldfritha 16:09, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I also think this should be removed. 172.165.196.145 20:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Map (West and East)
Did anyone else notice that two countries are flipped? Munchkin Country is on the left, "west," and Winkie Country is on the right, "east"? That's completely wrong. Is there a way to fix it? Bouncehoper
 * It's addressed in the article under the West and East heading. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.161.102.19 (talk) 16:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC).
 * Actually, it's not. The text under that heading claims that the compass rose is adjusted when the West is shown on the right and the East on the left.  But the compass rose in the graphic shows that West is left and East is right, just like on a typical map, except that the westerly Winkie Country is shown in the East and the easterly Munchkin Country in the West.  The map appears to be in error.  --DavidK93 21:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You're right, that was unclear. I've fixed it up a bit, but it might be less neutral? I don't know. Someone take a look and tell me what you think. 172.161.121.159 23:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it confused the heck out of me, you didn't make it clear that you were specifically making reference to the map in the image on the page, so I didn't understand why west had to be on the right side of the map (which sounded as though you were claiming that the compass should indicate that west is to the right, rahter than if it did then to match the text the Map should reflect this). I think to make it clear it should just be pointed out that whatever direction the compass points show, that, according to the text, the Munchkins should be in the direction which is indicated to be East, and the Winkies in the direction indicated to be west, but that the confusion mentioned has led to this not always being reflected in the maps as printed (And perhaps point out that the image posted is one such case).Number36 02:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Just to throw the cat among the pigeons - is it worth noting, maybe in a trivia section, that like Oz, maps of the Moon also have west and east flipped (a result of astronomers projecting our own west and east onto it)? Adambrowne666 02:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've given the section another shot. I hope this attempt is clearer. Adambrowne666: I couldn't find a citation for the lunar maps or I would have inserted it myself. I think it could fit well into the section on maps in at least two places. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.162.107.83 (talk) 13:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Much better, thanks :) Number36 03:00, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Does this explain why West and East are reversed on the Wogglebug Map? Martin Blythe 05:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There's actually an obvious explanation that might only occur to one who's familiar with Cyrus Teed and the Koreshans. If you look on the map of the regions surrounding Oz, you can see the Vegetable Kingdom off to one side - a country Dorothy accessed by falling into a crevice near California and landing inside the hollow earth (in Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz). There's a bit of hay made within that book about how gravity works when you're closer to the center of the planet. The unspoken conclusion is that Oz is actually on the inside of a hollow sphere - west and east being naturally reversed from that perspective. The journey of Quox through the Forbidden Tunnel (in Tik-Tok of Oz) supports this reading.
 * I don't know whether Baum knew any Koreshans directly, but as a Theosophist, he almost certainly ran into several Hollow Earth theories, and it's not hard imagining him taking a print error early on and kind of running with it as an inside joke. This is primary research, so unsuitable for the main page, I guess... but it seems like *someone* would have come to the same conclusion before. Anyone heard of Oz inside the Hollow Earth elsewhere? -- grant (talk) 15:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether Baum knew any Koreshans directly, but as a Theosophist, he almost certainly ran into several Hollow Earth theories, and it's not hard imagining him taking a print error early on and kind of running with it as an inside joke. This is primary research, so unsuitable for the main page, I guess... but it seems like *someone* would have come to the same conclusion before. Anyone heard of Oz inside the Hollow Earth elsewhere? -- grant (talk) 15:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Characters
Should the characters of the stories really be listed here? Articles on real countries don't list notable residents of those countries. Should an article on a fictional country list fictional residents by name? There already is a List of characters in the Oz books. Shui9 23:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
I removed the trivia section of the article in accordance with WP:TRIVIA. The section previously read as follows:
 * In a Sabrina, the Teenage Witch super novel, one of the chapters involves a displaced L. Frank Baum wandering through the Other Realm which ends up being the basis for the Oz books. The explanation for the name of OZ is given as a change from the intended original name of OR, for Other Realm.

Shui9 18:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Winkie Country/Vinkus
At the moment, the article mentions "Winkie Country (though also named 'The Vinkus')". I'm not a Baum scholar, but to my recollection "The Vinkus" is a term invented by Gregory Maguire for Wicked. If my memory is correct, the article shouldn't present Maguire's creations as if they were Baum's — the line should read something like "Winkie Country (called "The Vinkus" by Gregory Maguire in Wicked)", similar to the way the Wicked Witch of the East's name is parenthetically identified at Land of Oz. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I agree but why mention Maquire's books here at all? They have nothing whatsoever to do with Baums works and the "real" Oz.69.106.237.149 (talk) 17:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I also agree. Wicked is a fine book in it's own right, but it's not OZ "canon". There's a section later on for how Wicked treats OZ, the main section should only cover canon. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.93.249.2 (talk) 20:22, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Red Brick Road
OK, now what do I say to my 5 year old daughter? We watched the movie recently and she asked me "Where does the red brick road go?" Now, in my childhood, the idea never occurred to me the other road really existed in the story, much less go anywhere, but obviously some people do. I'd love to hear any theories peiople have so I can pick the best answer! Mattopaedia (talk) 02:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Well when me and my cousin used to watch it as kids we decided it went to where the Wicked Witch lived...no idea why we thought that though. Kravitch (talk) 06:38, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't notice this earlier. Eric Gjovaag addresses this in his Oz FAQ: http://thewizardofoz.info/faq15.html#7 172.166.78.121 (talk) 22:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. And for those too lazy to follow links, here's what it says:
 * "15.7. Where does the Red Brick Road go?


 * Many people have spotted the Red Brick Road intertwined with the more famous Yellow Brick Road, and asked about this. There is no definitive answer, however. The Munchkin Army enters the city via the Red Brick Road, so that may be the way to the barracks. Also, Glinda's bubble appears to head in that general direction as she leaves, so that may be the way to her home in the north. (This was, in fact, the basis for an amusing story, "Follow the Other Brick Road" by Frederick E. Otto, in the 1989 edition of Oziana, IWOC's annual fiction anthology.) It does appear, however, that Glinda's bubble enters Munchkinland from the opposite direction. "

Mattopaedia (talk) 01:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I actually just finished watching the movie on DVD, and paid special attention to this ... the carriage that Dorothy rides in during the scene in Munchkinland actually follows the red brick road, and it leads straight up to the front steps of the Munchkinland Town Hall. TheWizardOfAhz (talk) 07:17, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

March Laumer made Ozma a lesbian?
I've only read the first five of the famous forty, but it seems to me that those books establish that Dorothy and Ozma are in a romantic relationship with each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.162.144.64 (talk) 07:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a popular belief by adult readers in modern times, but it did not appear so to contemporary readers in Baum's time. Recently, with homosexual relationships becoming more acceptable many things which used to be acceptable behaviors between people of the same sex are no longer so. For example, if you watch the old Abbott and Costello films, you'll see that Bud Abbott thinks nothing of smacking Lou Costello's butt. Both of them were happily married with kids and no one ever attached a sexual meaning to it. However, today most straight men would not be caught dead smacking another man's butt--especially in a movie that would be seen by millions.


 * It's similar with kissing. Dorothy and Ozma think nothing of kissing each other throughout the Oz series. It was common in those days for close female friends and relatives, especially children, to kiss each other on the lips. It didn't mean anything until more modern times when lesbian relationships became slightly more acceptable, and suddenly the straight women realized that what they were doing could be taken the wrong way by observers.


 * Remember that Baum wrote these books in a very homophobic time. In fact, it has been speculated that Thompson made a few pokes at gays herself. I seem to recall a fairy character of hers who gathers firewood being described as a "faggoty fairy", and Prince Pompa of Kabumpo in Oz being appalled when his father tells him to marry her.


 * So Baum probably would not have been able to get away with inserting gay relationships in a children's book. The editors did require him to remove some other scenes from The Patchwork Girl of Oz (I think?) that were much less objectionable to the people of the time. And even if Baum could get away with making two of his most popular characters gay, I doubt that he would. He showed himself to be racially intolerant with his Native American genocide editorial in the Aberdeen Saturday Pioneer, and there are also insulting portrayals of many races throughout his non-Oz books (American Fairy Tales, Dot and Tot in Merryland, The Wogglebug Book, and even Patchwork Girl spring to mind.) So although he was ahead of the times with Women's suffrage, I don't think he would have been accepting of homosexuality.


 * Even in March Laumer's books, he portrays Ozma as a lesbian because she was raised as a boy, not because of the kissing. Dorothy herself thinks nothing of the kissing, remains ignorant of Ozma's true feelings, and goes on to marry a man. 172.162.40.192 (talk) 12:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Great Book of Records
The article says that the great book is not introduced until Scarecrow. I haven't changed this because the exact introduction is certainly open to debate, but it was certainly before Scarecrow (book 9). In particular, I remember it mentioned in Tik-Tok (book 8) when Glinda sees Ann Soforth's army marching on the capital, in the introduction to Patchwork (book 7), at the end of Emerald City (book 6), and I believe it (or its predecessor) was even hinted at as far back as Land of Oz (book 2), although it's described somewhat differently. 172.165.124.203 (talk) 00:40, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed Support Group
I removed the following paragraph from the section on how other authors have treated Oz. It is not about another author's treatment of the world, and does not belong in that section. In fact, It does not appear to be on topic in this article at all. I think the most it deserves is a little note at the top saying that "Land of Oz" redirects here, and has another meaning. In my personal opinion, however, this is blatant spam, and it being posted here is very poor marketing. Try posting your spam in an article on BPD, if that's what it's about. It is not about Oz.


 * This Land of Oz is more of a reference to the classic story by L. Frank Baum. In Oz, everything is not always as it seems and just not quite the way it should be.  In other words, things are a little off in the Land Of Oz.  Accordingly, people who are in a close relationship with a partner that suffers from Borderline personality disorder (BPD) are said to be stuck in the "Land Of Oz".  The Ozite often gets overwhelmed with the difficult and contradictory behavior of a Borderline partner and often wishes to escape to "Kansas", or a normal life that does not involve the unstable moods, unstable behavior, broken and/or strained relationships, misperceptions, accusations, and general lack of trust that entail living with a Borderline partner.

67.142.165.26 (talk) 20:18, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

March Laumer
March Laumer's section was removed. I've added it back. Can anyone give me a good reason why it shouldn't be there? No one contests the sections on Philip José Farmer, Robert A. Heinlein, L. Sprague de Camp, or Tad Williams, although all of these authors wrote only one Oz book, and in several of those cases, they were only partially Oz. March Laumer, by contrast, spent decades of his life writing dozens of Oz books. I believe anyone who spends any degree of time reading Oz books will know of him, and he at least deserves a mention on this page. 67.142.165.31 (talk) 21:16, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Where is Ringworld mentioned in Niven's Number of the Beast?
I don't recall Ringworld being mentioned in Number of the Beast. The characters encounter a Lensman, and the Oz elements are substantial. I also recall the encounter with the White Rabbit. Since I don't remember Gulliver's travels being mentioned either, I added a 'citation needed' tag to the list.

66.219.183.9 (talk) 20:28, 10 December 2011 (UTC) Glenn Chambers (not logged in)


 * I do seem to remember a vague reference to Niven. I think it was when the characters listed their favorite books and compared lists. Niven was on the lists, but not as high as Oz and Wonderland and the other stories they actually visited. Of course it's been years since I read it, and I don't actually have a copy available, so I could be wrong. 67.142.171.23 (talk) 07:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Ruby Slippers v. Silver Shoes
With as much of the discussion on the page that is rooted in the books, I am somewhat disappointed by the Ruby Slippers, instead of Silver Shoes. The Ruby Slippers are an invention of the movie (likely due to the prevalance of ruby items in other portions of the book); the Silver Shoes are what Baum put in the book. I would recommend clarifying this, and considering the book as the correct source (as it came first, and clearly the book inspired the movie, not the other way around). 108.253.69.87 (talk) 17:51, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

eponymous vs. titular
"Titular" means that one has the title but not the substance. A titular barnstormer would be one who cannot, in fact, barnstorm. "Eponymous" means that something is named for this person; the Greek means something like "named for." J S Ayer (talk) 03:32, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

A secondary meaning of titular is: from whom or which a title or name is taken: His titular Saint is Michael. so titular does work. However, I agree with you, eponymous is better. (and just did a revert, with that in the edit comment.) --VikÞor |  Talk 16:45, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Inhabitants section
The entire Inhabitants section is completely erroneous, from either an in-world or standard viewpoint. I am not sure whether it should be deleted completely or substantially edited. It makes a fundamental error that the world of Baum's Life and Adventures of Santa Claus -- a non-Oz book completely outside the Ozian canon and universe -- somehow supersedes or is otherwise a part of Oz. As a result, it inserts numerous non-Oz characters into Oz, presupposes a nomenclature and categorization of "fairies" that is nonexistent in Oz (though present in some of its neighboring countries), such as mermaids, who do not exist in Oz as it is a completely landlocked country. The section on the Nomes is the only one really relevant to Oz, but although the Nome King is the main antagonist of several of the early Oz books, he does not live in Oz. Has anyone else noticed these issues, and is there any sense of how this should be edited? I would not want to delete the entire section without some comment from others who have worked on this entry. Clevelander96 (talk) 12:06, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 6 June 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: withdrawn. Steel1943 (talk) 15:10, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

– Even though the fictional country probably wins in long-term significance being that it which all other subjects on the disambiguation page as based, Land of Oz (theme park) has a significantly higher average amount of page views by day. The notability of the theme park doesn't seem like it will be temporary, but it also is not notable enough to be the primary topic, especially considering the fictional country's long-term significance. The best option seems to be to move the disambiguation page to the base title so that readers can decide if they are trying to locate the fictional country or the theme park. (Also, regarding the "fictional country" disambiguator I chose in this move request: I did a search for "fictional land" and "fictional country" on the Wikipedia search, and "fictional country" seemed to return more article name results with it used as a disambiguator [as opposed to redirect name results] than "fictional land.") Steel1943  (talk) 21:36, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Land of Oz → Land of Oz (fictional country)
 * Land of Oz (disambiguation) → Land of Oz
 * Oppose, this fits the definition of primary and the failing/usually closed theme park is a pretender (literally). Let's hesitate to downgrade the original just because people have found another way to make a buck off it. Judging from a sentence in the lead paragraph: "It is to the United States what Lewis Carroll's Wonderland and C.S. Lewis' Narnia are to the United Kingdom", long-term significance seems to be the horse-of-a-different-color-in-the-room on this one. Randy Kryn (not in Kansas anymore) 23:28, 6 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Randy Kryn. I think this is a scenario where pageviews aren't everything. Nohomersryan (talk) 12:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "The fictional country wins in long-term significance being that it is which all other subjects on the disambiguation page as based." You convinced me. —Prhartcom ♥ 14:58, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Prhart. CookieMonster755 📞 ✉ ✓ 15:04, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:24, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Oz flag.svg

See Also...
Would someone create a "see also" section at the bottom and include this?

Land of Oz (theme park)

Interzone826 (talk) 14:49, 18 February 2024 (UTC)