Talk:Land surface effects on climate

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Not very happy
I doubt this article has a future. I've just looked at the refs that supported the first para, and none of them did.


 * "Global drying" is a theory of climate change. Key to some relatively recent proposals and hypotheses, it supposes that vast regions of the world are drying (and perhaps cooling), rather than warming.  This could explain some environmental changes which have been assumed to be the effects of global warming, in particular, the retreat of glaciers.

Really? Its a new one on me. Offered in support of this is http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~bc9z/cook_pdsi_clidyn_REV_v01.pdf, which says Global warming is expected to increase the frequency and intensity of droughts in the 21st century which doesn't support the text, it opposes it. Far from suggesting cooling, it assumes warming, and proposes droughts as a consequence of warming. Another reference offered was http://www.atlantisrising.com/issues/104_Global_Drying.shtml. Yes, really: www.atlantisrising.com William M. Connolley (talk) 20:05, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I'll cheer you up!
The theory is implicit in the research. Admit some of the sourcing was less than ideal. Point is, this is a theory, in some form. Also, research does not necessarily contradict the premise of possible cooling as a result of mass destruction of vegetation, especially forests. Glacier2009 (talk) 20:24, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Further, my inclusion of those sources was: 1) to establish precedent for the term "global drying," and 2) to provide examples of those changes which have been, as stated in the text, presumed to be the effects of global warming. Glacier2009 (talk) 22:31, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

To be deleted
Although land-atmosphere feedback is a real thing this article is a novel synthesis of various regional phenomena into a new concept. Therefore I will propose that the article be deleted. The article was well-intended so I feel a little bad about it, but Wikipedia has strict rules against this sort of thing. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:05, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * "New concept" or acknowledgement of real theory, implicit though it may be? Glacier2009 (talk) 03:15, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * No, it's not "real theory," implicit or otherwise. You've looked at a bunch of regional phenomena and interpreted them as a new "theory" of global drying. Overwhelmingly, the view is that as the climate warms the hydrologic cycle will accelerate, though at less than the rate that might be supposed from Clausius-Clapeyron scaling (see e.g., the classic Held and Soden 2006).
 * There's a kernel of an article here but it's not one on "global drying." Why not use this material as a starting point for an article on Land surface effects on climate? That's a real and important topic that isn't yet covered in Wikipedia. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:31, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello? This is the article you suggest.  Global drying is a well enough title.  My emphasis is on the premise of the research included, which certainly implies that deforestation and exploitation of vegetated areas is leading to less atmospheric moisture and precipitation over broad areas around the world.  That is the implicit theory, and it is a real one.  Glacier2009 (talk) 04:06, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Further, are we here to defend global warming or to present ideas? I did not engage the theory of global warming, just acknowledged a hypothesis, supported by solid research.  Is this the global warming talk page?  Glacier2009 (talk) 21:02, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If we cannot delete the article, find parts to delete. Wikipedia does not possess bias against alternatives to global warming theory, right?  Glacier2009 (talk) 23:19, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

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