Talk:Lara Croft: Tomb Raider – The Cradle of Life

Indy rip-off poppycock...
Apparently, someone did not like a comparisson on the main page between the first twenty minutes of Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life and the first twenty minutes of Raiders of the Lost Ark, and as such he took it upon himself to remove the information in question. This is what he had to say:

"Okay, this has got to be the biggest load of poppycock I've seen on Wikipedia. Yes, the very idea of the Tomb Raider games is obviously borrowed from Indiana Jones, but throwing around accusations and pointing out apparent similarities just seems completely retarded. The film failed because it was long and boring, not because people accused it of ripping Raiders. Unless, someone can point to a reputable source for this information you can bugger off. -TheHande 10:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)"

Now, TheHande wants to point out the "biggest load of poppycock" is...what? The reader cannot tell, for TheHande deleted it, so how can the reader judge for himself whether or not the article was factual? He also demands a reputable source for the information he deleted, but he forgets the fact that it is the audience in the theater who can or cannot tell the differences between the films. Whether or not it was intended does not matter; Cradle of Life did copy Raiders of the Lost Ark and did it rather cheaply. Both films are readly available on DVD and video so that anyone can see without writing to officials at Paramount and demanding they explain themselves, as TheHande would have you do. Obviously, the TheHande never bothered to do that, but his above rant is still included, unedited. As to the information he deleted, it is included below as a courtesy to the Wikipedia reader:

The first twenty minutes of both films:

1. They open in an exotic location. Indy in a Peruvian jungle, Lara on the island of Santorini.

2. Lara and Indy are each looking for a hidden temple containing an exotic object.

3. Both find the object, only to have the temple collapse around them and the object taken from them by bad guys.

4. Lara and Indy narrowly escape the bad guys; both escapes involve water, and both feature a hair-raising encounter with an animal (Lara and a shark, Indy and a snake).

5. Lara is at home, angry over the loss of her object, and discussing with her butler the ways and means of getting it back. Indy is in class, angry over the loss of his object, and discussing with a colleague the ways and means of getting it back.

6. Lara and Indy are interrupted by agents of their respective governments.

7. Lara discovers that the object she was seeking is connected to Pandora's Box. Indy discovers that the Nazis are looking for an object that would lead them to the Ark of the Covenant. The only way to discover both the Box and the Ark is via a map, with Lara's object projecting one pointing to the location of the Box, and Indy's pointing to the location of the Ark.

8. The agents in both films are very disbelieving, leading to the following dialogue: Indy "Any of you guys ever go to Sunday School?" Lara "That's the Sunday School version, yes."

9. Indy and Lara are recruited to find the objects in question, but it involves an individual each had an intimate relationship with: Marion in Raiders, and Terry in Cradle. And both characters are found in an isolated, snowy environment.


 * For one I have actually seen Raiders and the similarities you drew are vague at best. Here's why...


 * 1. Raiders opens in a jungle, Lara at open sea. Where's the similarity? They're not even at the same continent.


 * 2. Wrong, Lara is looking for hidden treasure and rather stumbles on the orb (she has no knowledge of what it is). Indy is actually looking for the idol and it is the only treasure in the entire temple.


 * 3. Yes, this happens in just about every action film that has anything to do with archaeology, not just Raiders.


 * 4. Very vague. Lara actually escapes through water, Indy is almost run down by a boulder and only swims the short distance from the shore to the plane. Lara actually comes in violent contact with a shark where's Indy just gets freaked by the pilots pet-snake (hardly hair-raising and more of a comical scene).


 * 5. Again, Indy is hardly angry, Lara is furious.


 * 6. This one actually makes sense.


 * 7. This one also makes sense


 * 8. This similarity is rather fading since Lara's scene is more dramatic.


 * 9. You forget that Marion carries an important clue while Lara's mate is really just dumb-muscle, a double-crosser and former con. But the icy environment was on tack.


 * All in all I think the similarities are too vague to be of any importance or relevance. Please don't put them on the page again. -TheHande 21:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The information is neither vague nor unimportant. I had placed the info on the main page so the average Wikipeda reader can be informed. With all due respect, you are an admitted video gamer, and you are not a member of the Wiki staff. You are subject to the same rules as everyone else here. I will place relevent information on various webpages as I see fit; the Wiki staff will determine whether or not they remain, and I do trust their judgement. I do not need your permission otherwise. Carajou 04:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * And another thing, don't touch my debunking of your bullshit either. I didn't remove that horrid list from the talk page even though I really wanted to. For one thing any film that has anything to do with archaology almost always takes place in an exotic locale, naturally, because all ancient ruins of ancient civilizations are located there. Not only is poitn 1 not even a similarity it is completely irrelevant. Have you seen National Treasure or Armour of God? They take place in remote exotic locales. Besides Santorini can only be considered exotic if you're not Greek. Also, Indy's escape did not include much water anyway (more like a cave, a boulder, a run through the jungle and a bunch of angry navites, Lara cuts herself to attract a shark to her location, plus Reggie is a pet-snake and most likely non-poisoneous). Also Indy is anything but angry, frustrated but nowhere near as violent as Lara who comes close to beating the shit out of her butler.


 * Additinally, you have not made any convincing arguments for your claims and right now I see it as a bunch of Original Research which is prohibited. It is not accepted fact, you're just twisting very broad similarities to serve your obvious agenda against the film. If you compare the movies side-by-side you'll notice very little to no similarity. Stop adding this bullhonkey, someone else is bound to get on to you. -TheHande 07:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Your conduct has been reported to Wikipedia staff. I do not appreciate, nor will I tolerate your attitude and potty-mouth. It is one thing to engage in ordinary and civil discussion; it is another to stomp all over others because you don't like what is written. Carajou 13:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hah! I have nothing to fear. All I did was remove a crackhead accusation that you cooked up. There is nothing in the wiki-guidelines that prohibits the removal non-factual and unsourced claims. My conduct is not at fault, yours is. -TheHande 15:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, there's nothing wrong with removing unsourced speculation. Saying this film copies from another film without a reliable source to back it up is original research and as such, should be removed. If you feel there are similarities between the film, great, but this is an encyclopedia, not a place to include your personal views of the similarities between two films. - Bobet 15:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

So, what you're saying, Bobet, is that I cannot use two films as a source for what I've written, and I have to be subject to the abuse of crank (TheHande) who can pretty much be as foul-mouthed as he wants. Is that what you're saying? Carajou 22:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * What two films? I think I've already established during this exchange that the openings of Cradle and Raiders are nothing alike. And don't be a baby, if you can't handle a little bit of swearing you shouldn't take part in internet-conversations to begin with. I might have been a bit aggressive but your ridiculous claims aggravated me enough to really get pissed. In my eyes this is like vandalizing a Uwe Boll page and taking it up a notch. -TheHande 22:44, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You're right on the first point. In case you didn't click on the policy page I linked, here't the short version of it: "Articles may not contain any unpublished arguments, ideas, data, or theories; or any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published arguments, ideas, data, or theories that serves to advance a position." Your additions are a great example of a novel theory that someone came up with, with no published sources to back it up, making it original research.
 * On your second point: I already left him a note about it on his talk page (similarly to the one I left you about vandalizing his userpage), that doesn't change the basis of his argument though, which is correct in my opinion. - Bobet 10:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hunh, I just realised you can do the same comparison with National Treasure:

1. Opens in some exotic, snowy place.

2. Nicholas Cage and his team are searching for the Charlotte

3. They find it, and Sean Bean steals the pipe they find before -

4. buggering off while the ship explodes.

5. Back at home, Cage and Riley try to warn the Department of Homeland Security, and -

6. They meet Dr. Diane Kruger (an employee of the national archives). Later they would get mixed up with more traditional FBI types.

7. When they were on the ship, Cage discovered that the object he was seeking is connected to The Declaration of Independence, which would lead them to the Lost Treasure of the Founding Fathers. The only way to discover treasure is via a map encoded with an Ottendorf cipher, on the back of the Declaration.

8. The agents in the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, and the National Archives are very disbelieving. I don't recall any mention of Sunday school, though.

9. Cage is recruited as bait by the FBI to find Sean Bean, but it involves an individual Cage had an intimate relationship with: Jon Voight. And I suppose you could call suburban New England "an isolated, snowy environment!"

So basically, in conclusion we can surmise that the sum total of creativity in Hollywood = Zero, and the square root of this = any movie involving anything fictional built before 1800: $$C/H=0, when \scriptstyle \sqrt{H}<1800$$--203.217.59.190 (talk) 06:56, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm doing it now
Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life Soundtrack --Tudor Tulok 00:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
An individual has completely vandalized this article. It needs repairing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.244.147 (talk) 16:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

DVD Source Material
Only having just watched part of the commentaries on the DVD, it seems that there is a fair amount of material that could be added to article from there. (With citations, of course.) I'm not knowledgeable about "Tomb Raider" as a whole, so could someone else do this? In particular, I was struck by Jolie's unusual control of the movie, and her insistence on doing new and dangerous stunts. But there's much other material. At least one new section, say called "Production" would be useful. Piano non troppo (talk) 04:38, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

News
http://movies.yahoo.com/news/movies.eonline.com/81145- --TudorTulok (talk) 00:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Seems to be little more than rumors and speculation. Megan Fox's reps have said she is not involved.  I think it's best to wait for more official information before adding anything about a 3rd film to the article. ~ Dusk Knight  06:21, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * We know there will be no Angelina but that's not enough. --TudorTulok (talk) 15:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Has Angelina actually been officially confirmed as not taking part? Last I'd heard, she'd signed a contract to do another film and was willing to do it...  [ジャム] [ t  -  c  ] 19:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Sentence removed
I removed the following sentence because it conflicts with the source:


 * "Total earnings amounted to $156.5 million, which represented a loss of $118 million - nearly equal the cost of Cradle's budget alone - compared to the original's total take of $274.4 million. "

This is the ref: The budget is 95, it made 156 therefore it made a profit, unless the editor is referring to the advertising and promotional budget etc. Which may very well be the case but isn't listed anywhere in the source. Quadzilla99 (talk) 08:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

A notable mistake...
Over the last few months various IP's have been repeatedly adding the following into the "Additional information" section:

''A notable mistake is when Lara drops into a boat family's home in Hong Kong - and addresses the inhabitants in Mandarin Chinese. A TV in the boat is showing an episode of Spongebob Squarepants dubbed also in Mandarin Chinese. In reality, the principle language on Hong Kong TV is Cantonese Chinese, which is also the official spoken language in Hong Kong (with English).''


 * 1
 * 2
 * 3
 * 4
 * 5
 * 6

I (and a couple of other editors) have been removing this on the following grounds:


 * It's not really a notable mistake, and falls well within suspension of belief - if we are to believe that the Cradle of Life exists, which requires a greater suspension, then there should be no issues with Mandarin being spoken in the film instead of what the editor considers to be the correct Cantonese.
 * Even if it were the above, Wikipedia is not the place for "goofs"; the error (such as it is) is already listed in the goofs section for the film at IMDB, and that should suffice. Thre is no reason to single out this particular instance, when there are (according to IMDB,) plenty of other errors in the film as well.

The IP addresses are making no effort to engage or explain why they believe the insertion to be valid, and in some cases appears to be the same editor from a floating IP address. Given the number of times that the insertion has been made, the lack of edit summaries, and the apparent unwillingness to engage, I find it difficult to presume good faith anymore. a_man_alone (talk) 14:27, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Film title
An IP editor has been changing the title of the film in the body to "Lara Croft: Tomb Raider – The Cradle of Life". The proper way to do this is to get consensus through a requested move. Until then, I think the article text should match up with the title of the article. Looking at the titles of the citations (some of which were changed to align with the IP editor's favored text), there's support in reliable sources for keeping the current title. For example, this is the title that Variety uses:. Same with the American Film Institute:. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:45, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. JudgeRM  (talk to me)  21:25, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life → Lara Croft, Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life – The comma was used as the title of the film, in the similar fashion of the film, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000) and the sequel Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Sword of Destiny (2016). Because of the title character's name and the name of the video game franchise, this will fit perfectly as the real title in order to understand. 115.133.88.81 (talk) 11:10, 1 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 14:55, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose - all sources seem to indicate that that above is not the case. There don't seem to be any examples where the comma is used.  NinjaRobotPirate comments on this in the above post - the current title seems accurate.  Chaheel Riens (talk) 11:30, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I sort of agree that the current title is unwieldly and grammatically incorrect, but it is still the most common title of the film (if not official -- BTW what's your source that the comma spelling is official?). While the comma would make it easier to read, we go with the WP:COMMONNAME here, and that seems to be the current title. Searching for "Lara Croft, Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life" on Google I got several other spellings (LCTR - TCoL and LC: TR - TCoL seem to be the more common ones, followed by LC: TR, TCoL and a somewhat bizarre LC: TR / TCoL), but the most prevalent by far is LCTR: TCoL (the current one). LC, TR: TCoL is nowhere to be seen. Daß &thinsp; Wölf 00:05, 13 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090326045921/http://www.freewebs.com/tombraideronlocation/ to http://www.freewebs.com/tombraideronlocation/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:48, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090221221635/http://www.toho.co.jp/towa/english.html to http://www.toho.co.jp/towa/english.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090502041554/http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newcars/jeep-tombraider/index.shtml to http://www.difflock.com/buyersguide/newcars/jeep-tombraider/index.shtml

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)