Talk:Larry Ellison/Archive 1

Bastard
Is it really important to say "Ellison was born out of wedlock to a 19-year-old girl"? I don't think his bastard status is relevant or NPOV. In fact I know it's not neutral because it put me off wanting to read the rest of the article. I'm going to be bold and remove it; someone can put it back if it's really that important. --Vik Reykja &#9836; 10:35, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't think that the unwed mother comment should be too off-putting. It shows how he started with some disadvantages. The article doesn't say that he grew-up poor, but I suspect he did. This might account for some of the appearences of his personality (at least sort of seems to be the case to me) - needing to have the biggest houses, needing to feel safe from earthquakes, buying -up Malibu, etc. I would be interested to find out more about his early years. 24.206.125.213 22:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI


 * I don't think that you will ever be able to see anything about his early years on Wikipedia - too many busybodies (people who's lives are consumed with Wikipedia) would object to it, say that it was not important, that it was biased, that you are prejudiced, etc.


 * I think the idea is important but the presentation put me off too. I changed the words around a bit.


 * Cheers, H. Hall

All I can say is, I am glad that these "Discussion" pages exist on Wikipedia, because without them, I wouldn't be able to find half the stuff I am interested in. Given that they know that he was born out of wedlock to a 19-year-old female/woman/girl/whatever, it must be known who his biological mother is, yes? Is she jewish??? Maybe the whole thing was done through a jewish adoption agency, but there is nothing in this Discussion page on it.

Contradictory marriage dates
The 'Personal Life' section say "Since December 18, 1983, he has been married to romance novelist and Oberlin grad Melanie Craft.". However, the 'Career' section says "On 18 December 2003, Ellison married Melanie Craft, a romance novelist, at his Woodside estate. His friend, Apple CEO Steve Jobs, was the official photographer.". So was he married to Melaine Craft in 1983 or 2003? Also, the bit about the marriage/wedding shouldn't be in the career section anyway. --Darksun 20:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Richest Man (Currently)
Currently Larry Ellison is the richest man in the world. Ha.. Not Bill Gates.
 * Very rich but not placed in the number 1 position by any of the compilers of 'wealth league tables' Boatman 17:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Can we have more on the insider trading charge
If a politician skims 100k from public funds its all over the NY Times but if a gozillionaire is even questioned about a million dollar insider deal, its buried in the back pages of the financial times. I am sure we can find a couple of articles and an SEC press release somewhere. C'mon people! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.149.231.102 (talk) 20:32, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Additional Information
I think there ar. For example there is no mention of Larry dropping out of university. In fact quite a few on the billionare list did just that. An in The pressure of the draft was enormous. Almost 3 million men, many of them draftees, served in Vietnam. A guy who dropped out of college was under added conscription pressure. So no bio of any person who came of age during the Vietnam era is complete without some explanation of how this was handled. Ignoring this issue is akin to ignoring the very biggest issue of an entire era.

The draft was only by lottery later on; atalk) 07:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

famous Japanese feudal style home's coordinates
As noted in Ellison's article, his Woodside, CA estate is quite famous. Needless to say, being as large as it is I was able to easily find it on Google Earth. I'm adding the coordinates next to the reference. Since there is no article on the home (which has an interesting story, as I recall), I assume it would be okay to place here. --Bobak 00:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought the house was $40 million. I have a book that describes the house, it can probably be cited from.  Tuxide 02:23, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not really that "feudal". It's not like he built a replica of Osaka Castle. The grounds have some elements of Japanese design, lots of big rocks (Ellison really likes big rocks; he had a shower stall carved out of one chunk of rock) and a fog generator to produce the foggy Japanese hillside look.  --John Nagle (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Contradictory Birthplace
On the summary, his birthplace is listed as Manhattan, New York City, New York. In the Biography, its listed as The Bronx, New York City, New York. I Don't know which is correct, so I wont change either, but I thought I'd point it out in case someone else knows. Everingham.Curtis (talk) 04:42, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I just did a quick check by googling each... and got the same contradictory results. Theres sites that say both. Wouldnt shock me if a lot of them were sourced from this very wiki... how reliable. BBnet3000 (talk) 00:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

A perspective of the early RDBMS wars
The following is a perspective from someone that was involved with selecting and using relational database management systems (RDBMSs) in the late '80s and early 90's.

In the late 80's, DB2 ran on mainframes and PC's that ran IBM's OS2 operating system and later System 38's, etc. Unlike DB2, Oracle ran on mini computers including the most popular mini which was the VAX made by Digital Equipment Corp. Mini-computers was therefore Oracle's niche during the 80's and Oracle was viewed as a reliable product.

It should also be noted that Oracle offered their first UNIX version of Oracle in 1984. This is important, because as PCs became more powerful in the early 90's, and companies such as SCO (the original Santa Clara Organization) began providing UNIX for PC's, Oracle had a reliable Unix version of its product available. And Oracle had already made inroads into large corporations with its VAX product. Thus as client-server applications using PC database servers began to take hold in IT shops in the early 90's, Oracle had the patina that large corporations looked for. One of the most important selection considerations at the time was the fact that in the early 90's, Oracle looked like the only UNIX RDBMS that might be around for a while.

Cheers, The link to more information on Larry no longer exists (404). -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.83.206.89 (talk) 08:56, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

H. Hall

He was the world's richest man for one day, when his company Oracle went public the day before his competitor, Bill Gate's company, Microsoft.

Hi ,

I believe the RDBMS wars could be hived into a different article. Do we really want this to be a part of Larry's profile ?

Let me know your thoughts. W —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.160.130.16 (talk) 21:00, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Jewish
The sentence "Larry Ellison is thought to hold Jewish religious beliefs (ie Judaism)[3]" is awkward. I suggest removing it entirely. Penalba2000 (talk) 02:23, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I added some commentary on his religious beliefs as follows:


 * Although Ellison was raised in a Reform Jewish home by his step-parents, who attended synagogue regularly, he remained a religious sceptic. Edelson states: "While I think I am religious in one sense, the particular dogmas of Judaism are not dogmas I subscribe to. I don't believe that they are real. They're interesting stories. They're interesting mythology, and I certainly respect people who believe that believe these are literally true, but I don't...I see no evidence for this stuff." At age thirteen, Ellison refused to be bar mitzvah.


 * Should not the religion part of the infobox be adjusted to say "agnostic" or "not religious"
 * Also if there is an ethnic portion of the infobox, should it not say Jewish and Italian Patapsco913 (talk) 19:16, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Lanai
I added information and a source about Ellison's purchase of Lana'i in the "Career" section, and later another editor made a similar addition under "Home", which is a subdivision of "Personal life". I suspect it doesn't need to be in both places, and I have doubts about its inclusion under "Personal life"/"Home": as well known as Ellison is for his luxurious living accommodations, there's no suggestion that he's buying 98% of Lana'i just so he can live there. Ellison hasn't commented on the transaction yet, but current news reports indicate this is a business move: AP reports that "the sellers said he plans substantial investments that will create jobs and stimulate tourism to the island once owned in the 1920s by the founder of Dole Foods Co.". --Arxiloxos (talk) 14:10, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Iron Man 2
I notice that there's no mention of his cameo appearance in Iron Man 2, where Tony Stark calls him the "Oracle of Oracle". I don't really know where to add that, but maybe some of the elves that run around this place may know where to categorise it.124.170.117.78 (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * We need a reliable news source to confirm it. If you can provide one I can put it in the article.  — Keithbob • Talk  • 16:08, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * So movie credits don't count?124.170.117.78 (talk) 17:50, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.dba-oracle.com/n_ellison_appears_in_iron_man_2_movie.htm
 * ww.imdb.com/title/tt1228705/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast
 * http://www.forbes.com/sites/velocity/2010/04/29/elon-musk-larry-ellison-have-cameos-in-iron-man-2/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.117.78 (talk) 17:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * So this isn't going into the main article then?203.214.90.34 (talk) 09:37, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I've placed it in the Personal section, cheers! ✅ -- — Keithbob • Talk  • 20:37, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Pompous
From the article: " Louis Ellison was a pompous government employee who had made a small fortune in Chicago real estate, only to lose it during the Great Depression.[6]" That doesn't sound very NPOV.
 * I removed it. Perhaps (I get that impression) this is based on something Ellison said personally, then we can quote him (or write "Ellison describes...)if we wan´t it in. He´s not a WP:RS on whether his stepdad was pompous. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:26, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

34th America's Cup
I found the article had a note about today's regatta, but there were no references, it made claims that I had never seen before about questionable actions during the finals (not to be confused with the cheating scandal), and other than bias it was rather poorly written. I think I got rid of the point of view issues and made it more clear... but I definitely didn't do a top notch job of it either. Probably worth some clean-up if someone has the time; for example I didn't include and final scores or the like. The bias thing just hit me wrong and I wanted to be sure it was a fair, substantiated retelling of the day's events. 76.103.48.252 (talk) 04:07, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

The sentence: "There is also controversy concerning the Oracle boat's usage of an automated foiling system which resulted in the 8-1 comeback win.", while a more specific charge than the last one is still unreferenced and is not a charge I can find a reference for out and about in the press or from any other credible source. If there is such a source I urge the person making that edit to supply it. While the overall AC72 design and format of the race was controversial, no mention that I'm aware has surfaced that Oracle made 'controversial' or 'questionable' modifications aside from the cheating event during the America's Cup World Series; this includes the race commentary, any press that I'm aware nor am I aware of any such charges from Emirates Team New Zealand itself. I appreciate that the loss was a hard pill to swallow for many New Zealanders (the source of the edits that I believe violate the NPOV rules), however these such charges need to be substantiated with proper and credible references: Do that and I won't revert the change. 76.103.48.252 (talk) 03:34, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Per WP:BLP any text that is not sourced may be challenged and removed. Its up to others to provide a reliable source if they want to re-add it. So your removal is valid and prudent.-- — Keithbob •  Talk  • 20:59, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

The gizmo referred to was extensively discussed in the NZ media at the time. The part was originally from a Boeing 747 and designed to automatically control small wing flap movement. The new part was modified in New Zealand and fitted by a team of leading kiwi boat builders who were rushed to USA by Larry Ellison. Before the fitting Team USA never won a race. Afterwards they never lost a race. Team NZ did not protest as the fitting ,though questionable (there were not supposed to be any any fully automatic fittings)and probably breached the spirit of a fair contest,it was apparently just within the wording of the rules.

Life extensionist
* https://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/sep2011_The-Ellison-Medical-Foundation-The-Ellison-Medical-Foundation_01.htm * http://www.businessinsider.com/ellison-thiel-also-trying-to-cure-death-2013-9#!IAQKJ * http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/odd-ways-tycoons-spend-their-money?page=2 * http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/20/the-immortality-financiers-the-billionaires-who-want-to-live-forever.html

Larry Ellison's support for the life extension cause of the anti-aging movement is evidenced by interviews with him and, much more importantly, by the fact that he even created his own Ellison Medical Foundation that does research on the aging process and age-related diseases. See sources above. "Death makes me very angry," he is quoted as confessing, ". . .How can a person be there and then just vanish, just not be there?" Having said what I've said, I believe it's acceptable for me to revive now my edit. 213.109.230.96 (talk) 03:11, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Recent lead edits
Does anyone know what's going on with the IP that keeps changing the lead? This article keeps popping up on the Special:PendingChanges list with regard to how Ellison is regarded. Per WP:MOS statements such as "known for", "best known", and such are allowed to establish a person's WP:NOTABILITY. This person keeps objecting to this. Anyone else care to comment? --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 18:54, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
 * One editor's humble opinion follows. (Full disclosure: I saw this because the IP editor in question made a near-identical edit on an article on my watchlist. When an IP editor states Wikipedia policy in an edit summary, I automatically check to make sure that the summary is not an intentional misdirection. [No offense is intended; it happens a lot.])
 * To both editors: argumentum ad hominem hurts your cases and diminishes your arguments. I would ask you both to remember that a dialogue is always preferable to an edit war.
 * To the issue, then: is "best known as the co-founder and chairman of Oracle Corporation" appropriate within an encyclopedia? To most who know of him, probably. Some might argue he's best known as one of the richest people in the world, but not specifically why. How much weight does this argument deserve? Some might argue he's best known for his participation in and support for the America's Cup. Again, how much weight? (In any event, I agree that the article's lead is woefully inadequate.)
 * Personally, I have no problem with the "best known" designation given how news articles tend to include this data prominently. That having been said, if we're being strictly encyclopedic, especially as regards biographies of living persons, I prefer to see potential POV cited to a reliable, secondary source. &mdash; ATinySliver &#47; ATalkPage 06:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * To the user who falsely accused me of vandalism: you clearly knew that it was obviously no such thing. This kind of dishonesty and immaturity is hugely damaging to the encyclopaedia.  I expect an apology.  And no, nothing in the MOS gives any support to your position.  Whether it's dishonesty or ignorance that led you to falsely claim so, it's not an excuse.  You should apologise for that too.
 * To everyone else: X is Y is simple, objective, verifiable. X is best known for being Y is verbose, subjective, and unverifiable.  Although I've been asking for literally years, no-one has ever been able to suggest what information they think is being added by trying to guess what people might think of the facts instead of just stating the facts. 82.33.71.205 (talk) 13:21, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is consensus based. That's where our policies arose from. In this case, Ellison is mostly notable for his role in Oracle - he is what Steve Jobs is to Apple and what Bill Gates is to Microsoft. Sometimes, "best known for" is clunky and subjective; other times it's okay (eg: this article, David Gilmour and The Who). Whoever accused the IP of vandalism, it isn't - AGF please. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  14:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not ok, here or anywhere else. It is always subjective and unverifiable.  Why do you want to guess what people think of the facts, instead of just stating the facts? 82.33.71.205 (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You certainly think it isn't, but other people do. So we reach deadlock. Personally I'm not too bothered either way. Hell, sometimes I agree with you. But I know arguing forcefully against everyone else just doesn't work around here. Ritchie333 (talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  16:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Core policies agree with me. A lot of people don't understand core policies though.  I see that you are, as you have always been, unwilling or unable to state why it is so essential to guess what people think of a fact instead of just stating a fact.  82.33.71.205 (talk) 16:30, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

There is no reasonable question as to what Ellison is best known for. Inclusion in the lead succinctly identifies why he is included in an encyclopedia. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 15:32, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course there is. I don't "best know" him for what you wish to claim he is "best known" for.  It is not stated who exactly is supposed to "best know" him, nor how this information was obtained.  It is simply a guess, and it is utterly unnecessary.  What is lacking in "He is the founder", exactly, that is somehow improved upon by saying "He is best known as being the founder"?  82.33.71.205 (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * No, there isn't. He is known for several things: His mom knew him as her son, his fifth grade gym teacher knew him as the kid knocked unconscious in a game of dodgeball, etc. He is, however, best know -- known by the largest number of people -- for Oracle. In this case, there is no possible question. The reliable sources in the article all discuss Oracle. None of them mention the dodgeball incident I made up. Perhaps, to avoid all POV, we should simply record absolutely every fact about him, chronologically. Start with his birth and drone on for several paragraphs before mentioning Oracle. After all, it's not like he's best known for Oracle. Maybe he's known for being born in New York City to an unwed Jewish mother? Pulling out Oracle from his later life and putting it before his mom's religion is clearly based on our opinion that Oracle is what most people are looking for. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 16:12, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I've rewritten the lead from scratch, so this is entire argument is now moot. Have a look and copyedit as necessary. Enjoy the festive season and have a mince pie. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  16:39, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks great to me, it's well written, concise and objective. 82.33.71.205 (talk) 16:54, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, we just need agreement from the other players in this thread and then I think we can close this. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  17:04, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I concur, our mucked up conversation aside, the Lead is in a good form now. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 17:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Real time net worth
Is it possible to automatically change the net worth to whatever it says here http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/#version:realtime or can it only be done manually --88.111.129.157 (talk) 20:00, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Iron man
Shall we mention that he was in Iron Man and an inspiration for the actor.--88.111.129.157 (talk) 20:00, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Tennis
I've added a note to say that Larry owns the Indian Wells Masters tennis tournament in California. Meltingpot (talk) 09:42, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Improve
This article is quite confusing. How did Ellison become a billionaire? What does Oracle do?Anthony717 04:35, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

How did Ellison become rich?

By co-founding Oracle.He owns about 1.1 billion in stock of Oracle(as reported in July of 2015). Ellison also invested in companys like Theranos and Salesforce.com. He also has a large real estate portfolio which you can read about in the (Larry Ellison) article.

What does Oracle (Corporation) do?

Oracle Corporation has its own article so if you want to find out more about the company just head over to the article.

Hope this was a little helpful

WikiEditCrunch (talk) 20:03, 3 November 2015 (UTC)Kind Regards WEC

I don't think that would be helpful nearly a decade and countless edits later. For all we know it could have gone from a stub to featured class. 104.218.136.34 (talk) 19:02, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't know how to put this in the article, but I would like to mention that he endorsed Marco Rubio for president in 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016#Marco_Rubio ActuallyBG (talk) 23:45, 29 November 2015 (UTC)Benjamin -- 11/29/15

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Reason for leaving Amdahl
According to one industry old-timer who worked at Amdahl at the same time as Ellison, over dinner last night, Ellison was fired by Amdahl, he didn't voluntarily leave. Interesting gossip of dubious veracity but... do we have any documented source as for why Ellison left Amdahl? Has Ellison ever stated anything about why he left Amdahl? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.165.35 (talk) 16:19, 1 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ellison, Robert Miner, and Ed Oates all left Amdahl together to start a software company. 73.222.1.26 (talk) 22:52, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Philanthropist
Lawrence Joseph Ellison (born August 17, 1944) is an American businessman, entrepreneur, and philanthropist who is a co-founder and the executive chairman and chief technology officer of Oracle Corporation.

This is subjective and should be clarified. Especially given the definition of philanthropist as of today (20190110T173538Z)

A Muddy Taco (talk) 18:39, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Military Service
Mr Ellison's entry needs to include his military service. Men his age were going to Vietnam everyday, and his Father, evidently, served in the USAF. What about Mr. Ellison, the younger? Perhaps that is where he learned to fly.

There is no easily available record of his having served. Was he ever drafted? Did he flee to Canada? Was he just lucky his number did not come up? More info needed. 2A00:23C3:E284:900:65BF:9B44:E4FD:3C1A (talk) 12:58, 13 May 2020 (UTC)