Talk:Las Anod conflict (2023–present)

Related party
Thank you for your interesting post. I have a few opinions.

The rebel group calls itself "SSC-Khaatumo", but so far there is no clear link with SSC or the Khatumo State. In other words, it is inappropriate to assume that it is a "self-proclaimed SSC-Khaatumo" and the same or a successor organization to these now.

Second, SSC-Khaatumo is seeking to join the Federal Republic of Somalia, but so far it has not done so. There is no evidence that the Federal Republic of Somalia is a party to this conflict. Therefore, in the infobox, it is inappropriate to view this conflict as a conflict with Somaliland and Somalia.

It is also unclear how Puntland is involved in this conflict. Historically, both SSC and Khatumo were at odds with Puntland. SSC-Khaatumo also denies any connection to Puntland, and Puntland denies any connection to SSC-Khaatumo. The Somaliland government argues that the Puntland government is behind this conflict, but so far there is no clear evidence. Therefore, it is inappropriate to view this conflict as part of the Puntland-Somaliland dispute. Freetrashbox (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Regional context and hearsay that won't belong in the page:
 * Villa Somalia (currently Hassan Sheikh Mohamud) has only called for ceasefire and a possibility of self-determination.
 * However Puntland and southern states have not gotten involved beyond Abdi Madoobe (Jubbaland president, currently in Las Anod).
 * The Puntland government has no involvement - its too busy melting down because of Deni election delays. The opposition groups are alarmed because of a mass incursion/landings of Emirati (UAE) forces on the Puntlandcoast.
 * In regards to Las Anod, also hearsay:
 * Word on Twitter is that Danab (Southern commando) forces who moved to Mogadishu from Las Anod and hail from the region have returned to defend the city. There are also Western-trained generals and clan chiefs providing strategic support.
 * I've made two edits to address this:
 * 1145485160 (Document the Dhulbahante leadership position)
 * 1145485496 (Puntland is neutral and in constitutional crisis)
 * Note the BBC video clearly shows the Dhulbahante clan committee with the flag of Khatumo State behind them.
 * There is also a statement of intent for "war" made by the city's mayor Abdirihin Ismail - as published in Al Jazeera.  MathAfrique (talk) 11:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your kind response. I understand that SSC-Khaatumo is the self-appointed successor to Khaatumo. The situation regarding Las Anod is unclear due to press restrictions. I think you write well within those limitations. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:58, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Speaking of the "devil":
 * The Daily Somalia on Twitter: "A delegation of Mps &amp; Senators from #Mogadishu, led by the Deputy Speaker of the Upper House Abdullahi Ali Hirsi Timacade arrived in #LasAnod. They held meetings with the traditional leaders of @SSCKhaatumo. https://t.co/giy8TXOwJW" / Twitter
 * Abbas A Hashi on Twitter: "15 years after federal delegation and the MPs representing the SSC regions arrived today in the #lasanod to survey the damage. This arrival was brought about by the locals' resistance to the SL, not by a delegation or through diplomacy. The solution for the haughty is a gun. https://t.co/qbeJZh9JRk" / Twitter
 * MathAfrique (talk) 13:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * How do you explain these sightings of Puntland security forces and politicians if Puntland is neutral or uninvolved?
 * Togdheer 24 | English on Twitter: "Update: New footage has just surfaced confirming the involvement of the Puntland Security Force (@PSFForces) in the ongoing crisis in Laascaanood. #Somaliland https://t.co/6AVJHQNAvY" / Twitter
 * Yusuf Gabobe on Twitter: "Farah Mohamed Dalmar,a Puntland MP with Al-shabaab links,was at the forefront of todays' unprovoked dawn attacks against Somaliland troops outside Lasanod and the city hotel where Somaliland gov officials were staying. https://t.co/ZieKB69DOQ" / Twitter
 * 🦒 on Twitter: "Active Member of Parliament from Puntland, #Somalia Ahmed Hariir Gaas has been spotted with a Chinese Copy of a Russian Draganov. China made weapons coming in from #Puntland, #Somalia is very concerning 🇨🇳🇸🇴 collab is visible. #Somaliland needs Counter Terrorism Support @UN_OCT https://t.co/zKtixJPjxa" / Twitter
 * UncleBourbon (talk) 11:28, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * As this isn't the place for politics, I gave no obligation to explain them. They are not involved. Those who involve themselves in the resistance are considered "fired" by their employers especially SNA.
 * We are not changing an infobox based on a Twitter source. If we did, we could say that Las Anod civilians are faking the destruction of houses based on footage not shot in lasanod then posted in a false context on Twitter..
 * It is believed via Twitter that those involved in the war are likely still part of the Harti confederation and/or with connections to Sool. There is also a significant influx of famous figures from Koonfur states. It is not surprising that individuals from Puntland are around. As explained in Puntland–Somaliland dispute, there are blood and business ties here.
 * There is also oil exploration rights. That is believed to be the reason why Puntland populace is taking interest in the region. Also the reason Somaliland wants to occupy it so bad. MathAfrique (talk) 14:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the most reliable citation on the belligerents thus far:
 * https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/2/20/whats-driving-conflict-in-the-disputed-somali-city-of-las-anod - What’s driving conflict in the disputed Somali city of Las Anod? | Military News | Al Jazeera
 * There is also BBC News:
 * https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cnx753jejqwt/somalia?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=63ef70be94565055842f8927%26Thousands%20flee%20fighting%20in%20Somaliland%20town%262023-02-17T14%3A00%3A20.978Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:bd53d63e-b033-4759-a3f3-a7ae725b201c&pinned_post_asset_id=63ef70be94565055842f8927&pinned_post_type=share - Thousands flee fighting in Somaliland town - Somalia - BBC News
 * - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cnx753jejqwt/somalia?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=63e31bd304caa552cb12dd69%26UN%20urges%20probe%20into%20deadly%20Somaliland%20clashes%262023-02-08T06%3A05%3A03.777Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:d47856f2-38ad-40d3-a3f1-3d7f07b9e878&pinned_post_asset_id=63e31bd304caa552cb12dd69&pinned_post_type=share - UN urges probe into deadly Somaliland clashes - Somalia - BBC News
 * To change the infobox you must bring better sources than: a Kenyan newspaper with poor verifiability levels, and also the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Somaliland which likely project SL interests. MathAfrique (talk) 14:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Due to Majeerteen (Garowe) and Warsangali (Boosaso) involvement, I have opted to restore the Somaliland-Puntland conflict templates but the federal state of Puntland is still not involved. MathAfrique (talk) 09:34, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

the Puntland government has denied any and all involvement in the war per https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/07/at-least-24-dead-in-somaliland-fighting

Al-Shabab is also not involved per this article - https://www.caasimada.net/al-shabab-rejects-claims-of-involvement-in-ongoing-laascaanood-conflict/

This citation from MFA Somaliland fails WP:VERIFY and WP:DUE and cannot go in the page. There are "accusations" of POWs who defected from Djibouti fighting for Somaliland. Also PSF defectors who are POWs also. But it is much more important that Deni and Guelleh have categorically denied and discouraged any involvement.

We need to follow WP:EDITWAR 3RR rule so please give reply or justification here before you add this information again.

MathAfrique (talk) 04:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Sources ive added are from the ministry of affairs, also sources such as caasimada.net fail to meet WP:VERIFY and WP:DUE Hawkers994 (talk) 02:06, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The Ministry of Foreign Affairs for Somaliland fails WP:NPOV - it is one of the belligerents and the official spokesperson of their army, and also the main place any possible propaganda will get released through.
 * To pass WP:NPOV the source has to present independent verification of their claims regarding any links to Al-Shabab and Puntland Security Forces.
 * The missing information is proof of organisational involvement rather than individual fighters.
 * I think caasimada.net does fail WP:VERIFY.. But we don't have a source passing WP:VERIFY on the most neutral description of the scuttlebutt on Twitter:
 * "ELINT intercepts collected by a multinational team and triangulated show links between AS HQ in Lower Jubba and AS teams fighting in Laas Anood. Names of interest include: Abdi Madoobe, Mowlid Leylooni, Farah Mohamud Jama believed as main coordinators of the effort."

- https://twitter.com/RAbdiAnalyst/status/1623746315724156929 - Rashid Abdi on Twitter


 * It is widely accepted fact that all forces involved in the conflict are Dhulbahante - this is corroborated by the Somali government, Al-Shabaab and Puntland in multiple consistent video statements. The spokesman on any and all Dhulbahante interests and activity is 1 man - Garad Jama Garad Ali.
 * But because the information is now back in the page 🗿 WP:AN/3RR must be looped in per WP:EDITWAR.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 15:38, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

I have created a thread at WP:NPOVN to attract the attention of experienced additional editors. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the 2R & editwar escalation..
 * Moving forward, my suggestion is that someone else could incorporate the disputed information into the article more fairly.
 * This would be done by moving it away from the lede and infobox, and into :
 * "On February 10, the Somaliland Ministry of Foreign Affairs accused the militias of being 'terrorist militias', alleging links to Al-Shabaab and the Puntland Security Force which the MFA also described as 'terrorist organizations'."


 * We can then cite the https://mfa.govsomaliland.org source - that would pass both WP:DUE & WP:NPOV.
 *  any thoughts?
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 23:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * (No worries and thanks for asking, but I personally don't provide content opinions in such disputes) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:11, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
 * that's all right, could you xpost this discussion to the Somaliland and Somalia WikiProjects?
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 04:33, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Feel free to do so; sounds like a good idea. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 06:40, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The Somaliland government claims that forces outside Somaliland are joining this insurgency, and it is not fair to no include that claim at all. My idea is not to erase the Somaliland claim from the infobox, but to include the annotation "Somaliland claims". Also, it is very difficult to read "the reality of SSC-Khatumo" in the main text, so I think there should be a separate section for this purpose. For example, in that section, "the Somaliland government claims that al-Shabaab is behind the Las Anod insurgency. However, an International Crisis Group representative said that the Somaliland government is claiming al-Shabaab's involvement without providing sufficient evidence. The Somaliland government also claims that Puntland and the Somali state of Ethiopia are involved in this insurgency, but the Puntland government and the Somali state deny this." Note that I am not going to edit this article directly as I have recently had trouble with Hawkers994. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * +1 - we can now fully pass WP:DUE on this. MathAfrique (talk) 12:27, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * small adjustment - for now, I feel we should put it in the "Clashes" section in the second paragraph. There is not enough content on the page to justify a new section.. MathAfrique (talk) 12:47, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Source on Puntland not being involved in the war.
 * "On March 6, Puntland State President Deni denied Puntland involvement in the war and called for self-determination in the Sool region." Per BBC News Somali - https://www.bbc.com/somali/articles/ck5yw6g82lzo. MathAfrique (talk) 14:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Transfer combat/military events from Las Anod to 2023 Las Anod conflict
I think the blow-by-blow detail of the military conflict in should be moved to this article.

Anything that is not about:
 * the city's buildings and landmarks, or
 * the military status or control of the city,

Can be moved to this article instead. The section should be shorter than the Clashes section of this article.

&mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 16:44, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Al-shabaab
Al-Shabaab denied early that they are not part of the conflict in Lasanod. Below is an article from the pro-militant website Somalimemo. Somaliland tries to justify the shelling of Lasanod by labeling the unionist side as terrorists. https://somalimemo.info/articles/17684/Al-Shabaab-oo-beeniyey-in-dagaalyahannadoodu-ay-ka-dagaallamayaan-Laascaanood-Warsaxaafadeed Matteknik (talk) 19:10, 27 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Very impressed - we can take the official letterhead as proof that Al-Shabaab denied involvement.
 * This helps us with the WP:VERIFY aspect of  discussion.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 05:42, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * the article still says that Al-Shabab are part of the conflict despite them rejecting the accusations made by Somaliland. It is an attempt of character assassination Matteknik (talk) 06:05, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Another thing, the EU made an statement today on the situation in Somalia. If one scroll down to Lasanod chapter, it says that “ This conflict is a symptom of unaddressed grievances in certain communities and lack of political settlement on the status of Somaliland”
 * https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegations/un-new-york/eu-statement-–-un-security-council-private-meeting-somalia_en?s=63 Matteknik (talk) 06:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You are free to fix it by applying the feedback to enforce WP:NPOV WP:VERIFY WP:DUE in the previous discussion. I am blocked from doing so atm but please feel free. MathAfrique (talk) 07:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * here we have an external source solidifying my earlier source with the mfs that Alshabab are indeed in Lasanod fighting along side other belligerents so having Alshabab flag belligerent in the info box should be kept.Hawkers994 (talk) 12:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * We all agreed Al-Shabaab fighters have travelled into the city. That is acceptable as part of the clashes section. We can only put it in the lede as "Al-Shabaab fighters" . Any other phrasing is intentional misinformation.
 * The current lede sentence with "Al-Shabaab" is false per Somalimemo
 * The statement "Alshabab are indeed in Lasanod is false
 * The information can only go in the infobox: Al-Shabaab fighters
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 13:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The flag is also not appropriate as we have a valid source denying Al-Shabab involvement
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 14:38, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Again you are citing either a stakeholder (Somaliland MFA) in this conflict or a pen for hire. This is Somaliland speaker of parliament Abdirisaq Khalif clearly stating there are NO terrorists (argagihiso) in Lasanod. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUXA3Qgpo-g
 * We have also seen United Nations OCHA with the SSC-Khatumo, Ethiopian federal delegation and the Somalia president offering to mediate. Judging by your history you have a interests in Somaliland but please stop your vandalization and misinformation about articles regarding those who reject Somaliland authority SSC-Khaatumo.
 * UN in Kalabaydh (28km outside Lasanod) met with SSC elders: https://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/somalia-flash-update-no-3-situation-laas-caanood-sool-region-9-march-2023-revised
 * Ethiopian delegation: https://allafrica.com/stories/202303060610.html
 * President HSM: https://northafricapost.com/65135-somali-president-calls-for-immediate-ceasefire-after-dozens-were-killed-in-somaliland.html Matteknik (talk) 13:50, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Another good external link which references terrorists and Alshabab militants pouring into the city https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/white-house-will-regret-ignoring-las-anod-somaliland/ Hawkers994 (talk) 11:49, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Opinion piece - fails WP:NPOV because it says "Somaliland, the most democratic state in the Horn of Africa". The state is in constitutional crisis due to election delays and the huge upsurge in Waddani support vs the currently ruling Kulmiye administration. There is also systemic poverty due to a succession of droughts cyclones. The counter to this is Al-Shabab - a big point but one which American sources would likely give undue extra coverage to..
 * &#x2014; MathAfrique (talk) 12:11, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Come on! Michael Rubin the lobbyist, really? And a think tank as a source? I have provided above Al-shabaab and Speaker of Somaliland parliament denying Al-shabaab involvement. Your source also states that Somalia army are fightning alongside Al-shabaab. Ridiculous! Somaliland has also accused the Somali region of Ethiopia of being part of the conflict. Which they denied here https://menafn.com/1105755616/Somaliland-Ethiopias-Somali-State-Denies-It-Sends-Troops-To-Fight-In-Las-Anod Matteknik (talk) 12:30, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have unfortunately spotted an Emirati-funded hit piece on MenaFN recently and I'm concerned that it is politically biased.
 * &#x2014; MathAfrique (talk) 12:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * That earlier Aei.org source does NOT fail WP:NPOV since its referencing another site in its editorial  also this discussion is about Alshabab militant group in Lasanod not droughts, cyclones or political parties. The articles highlights the entering of militant groups in the town and their affiliations with Al Qaeda which is the information thats required. Hawkers994 (talk) 12:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The author Micheal Rubin is citing himself. One pro-tip, look up the following sentence "Micheal Rubin Somaliland lobbyist" on google. I urge the admins to remove Al-shabaab as part of this conflict as it is a deliberate smear campaign on the other side of the conflict. Matteknik (talk) 13:12, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * it should not be removed as we have highlighted and posted many sources lime the african intelligence source https://www.africaintelligence.com/eastern-africa-and-the-horn/2023/03/08/somaliland-conflict-takes-a-regional-turn,109921456-art which reveal this. Just because they do not agree with your narrative do not mean they should be removed. Hawkers994 (talk) 13:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Our narrative is the exact text of African Intelligence which states  'backed by al-Shabaab fighters' . This suggests we should put the following in the page.
 * They can be a bulletpoint under "SSC-Khatumo militias". Per WP:DUE it would go below "∗ Dhulbahante clan fighters" and "∗ Ugaar Saleebaan fighters" (source: "Ugaar Saleebaan clan from Bari ..." - Twitter) - and likely above "Puntland Security Force defectors" and "Somali National Army defectors".
 * This information does not belong in the lede at its current length and should go in clashes - just to enforce WP:DUE.
 * We have all the citations we need to produce a balanced coverage of the incident and remove edits saying Al Qaeda itself is in Las Anod.
 * &#x2014; MathAfrique (talk) 13:37, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is the U.S embassy communique from today telling Somaliland president to withdraw from Lasanod. The U.S are deeply involved in the war against terrorism in Somalia, doubt they would give this statement if there were truly any terrorists in the city. https://twitter.com/US2SOMALIA/status/1641121894639321110?s=20
 * I understand this is not a forum to go back and forth, i have provided communiques from Al-shabab, Somaliland speaker of parliament, all rejecting the claims of terrorists in the city and i hope the admins take those into consideration. Matteknik (talk) 17:23, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Understandable, the original article was posted on Somtribune https://www.somtribune.com/2023/03/12/somaliland-ethiopias-somali-state-denies-it-sends-troops-to-fight-in-las-anod/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=somaliland-ethiopias-somali-state-denies-it-sends-troops-to-fight-in-las-anod
 * Somaliland has also accused the former president of Somalia of orchestrating things. https://www.bbc.com/somali/articles/cy05k9j7lvyo So far they have accused Al-shabaab, Puntland, SSC, Somalia army, the former president and Ethiopias somali region of part of the conflict. Matteknik (talk) 13:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The world's prominent mass media do not seem to consider Somaliland's claim of al-Shabaab's involvement in the Las Anod insurgency to be supported by the facts. For examples,
 * — Al-Qaeda-affiliated armed group al-Shabab has also rejected claims that it was involved in the fightin. (Al Jazeera)
 * — Somaliland government in Hargeisa blamed on the Islamist militant group al-Shabab. No evidence was provided to substantiate the claim.(The Guardian)
 * — Somaliland’s government has blamed the unrest on fighters with “anti-peace groups and terrorism” and alleged that the al-Shabab extremist group has supported some attacks.(AP News)
 * — On Tuesday Somaliland said fighters from neighbouring Puntland, a semi-autonomous region of Somalia, were fighting alongside local militias in the town of Las Anod, accusations Puntland denied.(Reuters)
 * Compared to Al Jazeera, The Guardian, Associated Press and Reuters, fr:Africa Intelligence or American Enterprise Institute are somewhat less reliable and minority opinions. I think their opinion should be listed as a minority opinion rather than deleted. Since this is a minority opinion, it is not appropriate to write it without annotation in the infobox. It should be clearly stated as "Somaliland's claim." Freetrashbox (talk) 23:51, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * (Additional comment) If we read carefully, the American Enterprise Institute article states that the insurgents are terrorists, but not that they are al-Shabaab. This article merely presents the view of the Somaliland government that al-Shabaab has joined the insurgency. Freetrashbox (talk) 13:18, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I would advise in no uncertain terms that this should not be put in the infobox per WP:DUE, unless the infobox is expanded with other much more significant belligerents as I explained ("... Ugaar Saleebaan").
 * We have come to an impasse with 3 editors suggesting curtailment/qualification of this information or removal.
 * Will be putting this all up for RfC and seeing what they think. We have every source here for them to make a decision, and information on the quality/validity of each.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 12:25, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So are you going to remove the false information or not? Al shabab demied involvement so did the locals and Somalia itself and no one takes that claim seriously. There’s no proof of them being involved, I suggest you take that flag down it’s ridiculous and misleading. Somalistar7 (talk) 01:51, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I have removed the flag icon, it is clearly not appropriate as there is consensus this implies organisational involvement. We know that Al-Shabaab the organisation is not present in Lasanod. It's also clear the ELINT reports were entirely unsubstantiated and no evidence was presented supporting this tweet.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 08:53, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Laascanod conflict
Laascanod waxa ka socda dagalo 192.145.170.193 (talk) 14:47, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

US foreign position on conflict
MathAfrique (talk) 10:44, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
 * https://twitter.com/US2SOMALIA/status/1641121894639321110 - U.S. Embassy Mogadishu, Somalia on Twitter: "#Somaliland President Bihi has the power to create distance between forces in Lascanood &amp; announce a roadmap for future elections. During a frank conversation with him this afternoon, I encouraged him to do both. – Ambassador André" / Twitter
 * https://www.state.gov/instability-and-democratic-backsliding-in-somaliland/ - "Instability and Democratic Backsliding in Somaliland" (Press Statement) - United States Department of State

RfC about belligerents and referencing in the lede and infobox
Based on the many news sources in this talk page (CTRL+F and search  to see all these links), we need help resolving the previous edit war and fixing this page which contains unverified (likely false/unverifiable) information:
 * Las Anod being under Somali Federal Government jurisdiction in the infobox
 * the organizational presence of Al-Shabaab

RfC:
 * Should this information be removed from the infobox or qualified?
 * Should it also be removed from the lede or qualified with "(claimed by Somaliland)"?
 * Should it be moved to the Clashes section?

MathAfrique (talk) 12:39, 2 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Las Anod, night view.jpg
 * Hello @MathAfrique, I said a few days ago on the talk page of WikiProject Somaliland that I would respond to your message about this article later in the day, but with the talk page now over 30,000 bytes, it's quite the daunting read: for me, and for other editors, so I wouldn't expect many to any others opinion on the debate. But I did read it all, and my opinion is that:
 * 1: There theoretically should be some sort of mention in the article that the situation on the ground is unclear, and that there is likely not as clean-cut answers (i.e. a specific country or army) to the question 'who is supporting/a belligerent in the conflict', because there seems to be mixed motives and opinions by the people in those countries or armies. Even if they do not come from the most reliable sources, the existence of multiple of these sources claiming multiple things shows some truth to this claim.
 * 2: Solely going off the article Las Anod, the city is cited as being under the control of Somaliland since 2007. If this is untrue, they being under Somali Federal Government jurisdiction in the infobox should not be kept, unless this can be proven and changed on both pages.
 * 3: As for the presence of Al-Shabaab, I really do not have a good answer. I guess I would say that this loops back to my first answer, that there likely is also not a clean-cut yes or no answer to whether they are a presence in the conflict or not. There likely are some militants who claim association with the militia operating in the fog of the conflict, without backing from Al-Shabaab themselves. I think they should be put into the infobox as:
 * Al-Shabaab (claimed)
 * ... or something along those lines to at least give due weight to the claim.
 * That's about all I have to say. I hope this response was helpful, and I'm sorry that I can't give a more in-depth response, I'm not as caught up on recent Somaliland politics since I stopped keeping up with the article 2022 in Somaliland last year. Cheers!  Johnson 524  (Talk!) 14:06, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * IMHO we should put "Al-Shabaab fighters (claimed)" because all the sources agree that it's individuals linked (now or previously-unclear!) to the militant group.
 * This is also the format we'd use for to add belligerent counts later AFAIK. MathAfrique (talk) 13:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @MathAfrique: Sounds good to me 👍  Johnson 524  (Talk!) 14:44, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @Johnson524 @MathAfrique I think that the claim that Al Shabaab was involved in the fighting is extremely ridiculous and shouldn't be addressed. There is absolutely no evidence that they were involved in the fighting and they don't even have a presence in this region. محرر البوق (talk) 17:41, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @محرر البوق: I put this claim in the infobox going solely off of the links provided in the discussion above. There was basically no consensus being reached, so putting "(claimed)[cite][cite] (disputed)[cite][cite]" seemed to me to be the best way to resolve the conflict by giving both arguments their due weight, while definitively confirming neither, because both arguments don't have the most reliable sources backing them. Cheers!  Johnson 524  (Talk!) 17:58, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Happy with this, also proposing that the mention in the lede is removed entirely. There is no "Al-Shabaab (militant group) militia" or organised effort in Las Anod, a fact that all sources agree on. Nobody believes Al-Shabaab is organizationally active there except a small cadre of hawks on Twitter.
 * The ELINT report is entirely unsubstantiated. The individual was prompted to provide sources but never did. It is possible they may be a pen-for-hire on behalf of their thinktank on Twitter, serving SLMFA interests.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 18:14, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I have done work on the page, just to try weave in content from the news sources and press releases posted here.
 * You can see this edit at difference ID.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 05:13, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * @MathAfrique The number of belligerents seems too excessive. Do you think that all these militias have to be individually mentioned? محرر البوق (talk) 18:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Its not excessive, as they are an actual part of the conflict. Hawkers994 (talk) 18:51, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I moved the subclans of Majaarteen to the conflict section. Just to keep the infobox neat! MathAfrique (talk) 22:06, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, even though they’re all different sub clan militias. Hawkers994 (talk) 23:43, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * NB: Looping in some people - MathAfrique 05:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
 * NB: Looping in some people - MathAfrique 05:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Facebook used as a primary source in article referencing
Facebook cannot be used as sources of information for Wikipedia. It should be removed unless another reliable source can be found. See WP:UGC. --Freetrashbox (talk) 12:52, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * For cultural reasons, Las Anod and the Sool region have consistently suffered from poor local news reporting. I don't think better sources can be found unless Garowe Online has covered it. Admittedly even Garowe Online is not under a reporter's name and isn't the best source .. however, it's one of the least personally offensive or politically charged in the Somali zeitgeist.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 13:23, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Even if there is no other reliable source, Facebook cannot be used as a source. Information that is not backed by reliable sources is as same as nonexistent to Wikipedia. --Freetrashbox (talk) 12:51, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If the videos are uploaded or generated by a real news media company, I think it could do.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 17:43, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The current version has [2]-[8] Facebook sources. Please tell me the number of them that you consider real news media. And please provide a URL that proves that the media is reliable. (e.g., location of their headquarters, etc.) Freetrashbox (talk) 20:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Any that are clips of Golis TV or Sagal TV clearly qualify for these requirements. This leaves us 3 or 4 links to assess. MathAfrique (talk) 03:56, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * A Google search for "Golis TV" finds only YouTube and Facebook. Also, I can't find any citations on Google Books and Google Sholar, as well as Wikipedia. Also, the contact information on Facebook is a free email, and the phone number written is for the US. It is hard to believe that there is a professional news media in the U.S. that does not have its own domain name or website. Freetrashbox (talk) 10:57, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Scratch that - Golis TV is nonexistent. These videos are a primary source shot by a journalist and sponsored by Golis Telecom. Not sure what we do from here.
 * I will mark the article as relying on primary sources. MathAfrique (talk) 17:57, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Currently, there is no objective evidence that the reporter is a professional journalist or not. All explanations are in Somali speaking and cannot be understood by non-Somali speakers. In other words, it is not at all clear from the video whether this is about the present time, Las Anod, or the clans mentioned in the commentary. It should not be used as a primary source. Freetrashbox (talk) 13:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The Somali language barrier does not violate Wikipedia sourcing policy. We also do not have better sources, and this fact is not being actively disputed.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 08:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The "video spoken in Somali" is only one of the problems. A personal Facebook Page does not make it a reliable source. --Freetrashbox (talk) 11:07, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I found a reliable source - the famous journalist and public figure Shiine Culay - https://www.facebook.com/CulayShiine/videos/772966621066303/
 * (META: I branched discussion to a new section now that the specific subclan information is not in the lede anymore.)
 * MathAfrique (talk) 12:06, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Even if the person is a well-known journalist, a personal Facebook page does not qualify as a reliable source of information for Wikipedia. See WP:SELFSOURCE.--Freetrashbox (talk) 10:52, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Found a supporting yet vague-ish source: https://www.crisisgroup.org/africa/horn-africa/somaliland/time-somaliland-and-dhulbahante-talk
 * Let's keep digging!
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 05:44, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I saw your edit. I feel this source is reliable. I think a particularly important description is that"The Dhulbahante are indeed receiving money, equipment and fighters, but primarily from allied Darod/Harti clans in Somalia." This source mentions Harti, but not Majeerteen or Warsangali. Whether it was Majeerteen, Warsangali, or both that provided the fighters is not readily apparent from this description. Your description is original research. And even if we were to accept your description, the Facebook source would need to be removed. Freetrashbox (talk) 22:38, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hoehne's long awaited report is out and it explicitly mentions the Majeerteen and Warsangali. Hope this clears it up.
 * &mdash; MathAfrique (talk) 06:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Since Markus Virgil Hoehne is a university faculty member and allAfrica is a major mass media outlet, I think this source is reliable. I appreciate your continued efforts to find sources of information. However, even if other sources were supporting the information, I think YouTube in Somali is not an appropriate source. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:05, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Laascaanood city of Somaliland
Laascaanood is a city located in the republic of Somaliland. Also is the capital city of Sool region of Somaliland. 41.79.198.8 (talk) 05:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2023
in the Amnesty report, Amnesty called for Somaliland to investigate civilians death in the conflict. Somaliland was not accused of war crimes. This is not accurate. The war took place in urban setting, many civilians were impact in cross fire between Somaliland forces and clan militia. Mgulaid (talk) 18:52, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: the source doesn't seem to support the statement about war crimes in the lead (starting with In late April, Amnesty International released a report accusing...). M.Bitton (talk) 22:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
 * See my response below to the request from 1 October 2023. -- Pinchme123 (talk) 19:15, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Las,Anod
SSC-khaatumo state of Somalia 2A02:810B:10A0:3194:D9A3:D89D:D212:2062 (talk) 16:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Las,Anod
SSC-khaatumo state of Somalia 2A02:810B:10A0:3194:D9A3:D89D:D212:2062 (talk) 16:47, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2023
change: In late April, Amnesty International released a report accusing the Somaliland government forces of war crimes and human rights violations against civilians.[25]

to

In late April, Amnesty International called for cease-fires and expressed concern about the impact of cross fire on displacement and civilians who still remain in the city.[25]

context: the report didn't accuse Somaliland for war crimes, that is not accruate. Mgulaid (talk) 06:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Seawolf35 (talk) 15:47, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This edit request is clearly speaking about the already-provided source. After reviewing it, I do not see how we can use WP's voice to say Amnesty International "[accused] the Somaliland government forces of war crimes and human rights violations". I've changed the sentence to reflect the report, but my changes are not the same as what Mgulaid has written here because the report also does not talk about "cross fire". Pinchme123 (talk) 19:14, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Las anod conflict 2023
President Muse Bixi led second phase of war, but no body know that's fact or fiction 41.79.198.23 (talk) 18:20, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Crimes against humanity category removal
Crimes against humanity is a specific legal concept. In order to be included in the category, the event (s) must have been prosecuted as a crime against humanity, or at a bare minimum be described as such by most reliable sources. Most of the articles that were formerly in this category did not mention crimes against humanity at all, and the inclusion of the category was purely original research. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Marking conflict de facto finished per Khaatumo State 2023 content
Based on the content on the article and the cited facts in Khaatumo State, I can't envision a reason to mark this conflict as ongoing. Clashes have been raging in the region since the turn of the century, and aren't enough to justify marking this conflict as (2023-present). There appear to be no verifiable sources about new Somaliland weaponry or forces after the "strategic retreat", and the Habr Je'lo mobilisation hasn't really occured either. MathAfrique (talk) 16:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)