Talk:Last of the Summer Wine/Archives2007/December

TOC
"Last of the Summer Wine" is a great show. I miss Compo as if he were part of my own family. But what exactly is "the last of the summer wine"? Is summer wine cheap? Is it a romantic reference to something like "salad days"? The characters seem to drink tea and ale exclusively, excepting one coffee drinker in the ladies' klatch. Forgive this American for asking, what is "The Last of the Summer Wine"? Thank you.


 * As far as I know, the phrase was dreamt up by Roy Clarke - it's not something that was in common use before. I've always assumed that it was meant to evoke the idea of enjoying every last drop of "summer" fun as you entered the "autumn" of old age. Or something...

Referenced in Extras
This show was referenced in the 'Les Dennis' episode of Ricky Gervais's television show, Extras. I added the reference to the 'Praise and Criticism' section since Wikipedia seems to be doing away with trivia sections these days.

"'Last of the Summer Wine was mentioned in the BBC television comedy Extras during the first series when Maggie reluctantly attends a party thrown for a former friend and co-worker, whom Maggie refers to as "a wee bit mental." She jokingly compares to the elderly partygoers as looking like "the cast of Last of the Summer Wine.'" BadMojoDE 23:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)BadMojoDE

Foggy
Everyone knows old foggy was the best third member, but does anyone know what reason they gave for his absence following Brian Wilde's second departure in 1997? I know in 1985 they said he's gone to Bridlington to paint eggs. Also, how did they get rid of the Pegdens, Eli, Sid, Wally etc? this kind of stuff should be on here. Any info would be greatly appreciated.--Crestville 12:43, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Wally certainly "died" off-screen and had a funeral and all that jazz. AFAIK, Eli (never a really major character anyway) just wasn't mentioned again. Wesley Pegden was mentioned as having died, but I'm not sure about Edie. -- Bonalaw 15:34, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * The actor who played Eli died in real life so his character was written out (I don't recall it being mentioned in the show but I could be mistaken), Edie's death (actually Thora Hird's in real life) was included in the show. Zerbey 16:33, July 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok that's great, cheers. But what about Foggy?--Crestville 18:15, 13 July 2005 (UTC)


 * In the episode that introduced Truly, you only ever saw Foggy's feet; he was very badly hung over. A postmistress who he'd met at a party the previous evening promised to look after him while the other lads went off and did their own thing. By the end of the episode, she'd dragged him off and married him, and that was the last anyone ever saw of him.

Eli's death hasn't been mentioned and isn't likely to; no characters were closely involved with him except Wally Batty, who died long, long ago. Edie and Wesley are sometimes remembered in passing by Glenda or Barry.

Auntie Wainwright
The text currently reads At various times, Auntie Wainwright mentions that both Howard and Smiler are relatives of hers, but she never specifies how, though it is generally known among fans that Auntie Wainwright is Howard's aunt. In her first episode, wasn't she introduced as Howard's aunt? I can't remember her referring to Smiler as a relative, though. If no-one objects here, I'll alter the page accordingly. Bluap 08:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Setting and name
Is it set in Holmfirth as the article currently suggests? I know that's where the location filming takes place, but is Holmfirth actually cited in the series?

Also, isn't Compo's surname 'Semini' rather than 'Simmonite'? Funnily enough Roy Hattersley gave an interview recently where he gave the surname as 'Simonite', but my recollection from the Radio Times cast lists is that Semini was his surname. Can anyone confirm this please? DavidFarmbrough 10:57, 19 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I've always presumed that it's actually set in Holmfirth, but can't quote a reference. Compo's name is definitely Simmonite.  Bluap 12:07, 19 September 2005 (UTC)


 * In some of the early episodes you can spot posters or buses that say "HOLMFIRTH" on them, but I think it's been a long time since any references like that have been visible.

Josephine Tewson
There's another character, played by her, now, but I can't remember her name, she was working in the library in the most recent series. If someone remembers this, could they add it to the Character list please?

missing episode
AS A FAN OF LAST OF THE SUMMER WINE SINCE IT STARTED I HAVE ALL THE EPISODES ON VIDEO WHICH I HAVE JUST FINISHED TRANSFERRING TO DVD BEFORE I WORE THEM OUT. I WAS MOST UPSET TO DISCOVER THAT I WAS MISSING AN EPISODE - MERRY CHRISTMAS FATHER CHRISTMAS - DEC 1986. IF THERE IS ANY ONE WHO CAN HELP WITH A COPY, PLEASE CONTACT ME -raymond@grangemini.fsnet.co.uk
 * I'm sorry, WHAT? 67.42.94.9 06:09, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

DVD Question
Does anyone know when the entire series will be released onto DVD? I know that the BBC has released (what I believe to be) the first 4 seasons on DVD. I just want to know when they will release the rest.


 * The first 4 seasons were released in the UK by Universal Playback, who presumably licensed them from the UK. The same company released many of the BBC comedy DVDs.  In mid-2005, BBC Video merged with another company to form 2Entertain Ltd.  The best guess is 2Entertain now hold the rights to the series.  Looking at other 2Entertain releases, they appear to continue where Universal Playback left off.  However, it appears that, instead of releasing early series of lots of programmes, they are going through all of the series of each comedy programme in turn.  I would imagine that they will get round to Last of the Summer Wine eventually, but don't know when. Bluap 23:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Time to end?
Last of the Summer Wine is a legendary show, but I think it should have ended when Compo died. Dad's Army was finished when all the best juice had been squeezed out of the orange, the cast members were aging, and its creators knew when it was time to end the much-loved series. I think the same principle should apply to Last of the Summer Wine, does anyone agree? --86.31.17.198 17:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The actors were ageing when LOTSW started! It will end when people stop watching it. Until then it is popular enough to go on.--Crestville 18:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Indeed! If the actors where not aging, it wouldn't be LOTSW! Jake b 23:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

How is this relevant to the article?

Howard
Need to add character bio for Howard. Jake b 23:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * He's in Recurring_characters_in_Last_of_the_Summer_Wine. Feel free to expand the entry Bluap 07:15, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Rename article
This article needs to be renamed to "Last of the summer vinegar". Zanusi 18:10, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a point to your comment which would involve actual revision of the article? -- Redfarmer 01:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Truly.jpg
Image:Truly.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 16:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lotsw.jpg
Image:Lotsw.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 22:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

End of Series?
Does anyone know where this information came from that Alan J.W. Bell believes the twenty-ninth series will be the last? This is news to me and I can find nothing suggesting this. Just seems unlikely after all the years LOTSW has been around. -- Redfarmer (talk) 14:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No idea, hence my addition of the "citation missing" tag. [Jam][talk] 14:40, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It appears that annonymous ips are the only ones talking about this so I went ahead and deleted it for now until we can find something substantial to back up this assertion. -- Redfarmer (talk) 13:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Region 1 DVD Releases
amazon.com has two sets of Last of the Summer Wine available for Region 1:

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Summer-Wine-Stephen-Lewis/dp/B00007ELCZ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1195490777&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/Last-Summer-Wine-Stephen-Lewis/dp/B0001JXP70/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1195490777&sr=1-2

Are these seasons 1 and 2, respectively, or are they just collections of randomly selected episodes?

Either way, it seems like they should be mentioned in the article TerraFrost (talk) 17:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * They're best of collections from the Blairme, Seymour, and Foggy years. They were previously in the article but someone deleted them. Not sure who. -- Redfarmer (talk) 17:43, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Images
OK, whoever the admin was who left the template about the images on the page left no indication of why they felt the images in the article are in violation of wiki policy and I'm at a loss. Anyone want to venture a guess? -- Redfarmer (talk) 23:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * From the user's talk page, a response they gave to another user when they apparently did the same thing to an article that user was working on:

"Non-free images can only be included per WP:NFCC. To have 20 logos in an article fails criteria 3 and 8."


 * I guess he means we can't use so many images because of fair use. I just wish he'd said this on the talk page instead of just randomly adding a template. I'll get to this soon unless someone else wants to do it first. We should be able to keep the intertitle and the picture of the trio at the top. Just get rid of the pictures of the characters in the chracters section. -- Redfarmer (talk) 08:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * These templates often mean that the fair-use rationale in the image page doesn't have a link to the articles in question. Bluap (talk) 14:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I that Redfarmer has fixed the problem with the images. Sorry that i did not leave a message here but I only tag when I don't have the time to fix it, and comes back later. There is a good explanation for the removal of such images at User:Durin/Fair use overuse explanation. Cheers. Rettetast (talk) 15:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Dear me, these deletions really reduce the usability of the article. It is possible to argue that the images were well in accord with the policy item 8: " Significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. Non-free media files are not used if they can be replaced by text that serves a similar function." In fact, readers cannot understand who the actors are at all unless there is a photo, so images are absolutely essential to understanding. However, it is clear from Durin's referenced page that arguments will do nothing, no matter how cogent they are. Minds are closed here. In the end, Wikipedia's policy comes down to fear of lawsuits, which is difficult to argue against, I suppose. (All the high-faluting talk about free access etc is secondary to this fear.)


 * May I ask if it is permissible to produce a sketch of a character, based on a fair-use photo? Presumably, this would be a derivative work - would that be acceptable? (Not being an artist, I am thinking of a computer-generated line drawing derived from the photo.) Patche99z (talk) 17:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd be against this even if it is permissible. Drawings would reduce the quality of the article and make it look a lot less encyclopedic and professional. If we can't have the photos, I'd rather it stay as is. -- Redfarmer (talk) 12:32, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have to agree with you, especially since I made a quick attempt at a drawing... it was dreadful.
 * It seems the main objection is the one against using non-free images of living persons, except in very limited circumstances. For the record, the best reference seems to be WP:NFC "Unacceptable images" item 12, not WP:NFCC which has less useful text. But it is possible to use a screenshot of characters provided it is in the article about the relevant show or character, not the actor's article. I guess the argument is that the image is of the character not the actor, so a replacement free image cannot be obtained. See WP:NFC "Acceptable images" item 5. Except for the gotcha which started all this here: WP:NFC "Policy" item 3a, "Minimal usage". Anyway, I have given up arguing. Patche99z (talk) 17:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Need Sources
I've been working hard this week on getting material sourced but I still have two items I need sources for if anyone can help me find the information.


 * Does anyone know where the assertment came from that Brian Wilde said he considered a guest appearance for Compo's funeral?
 * I am looking for criticism of the series in order to source the statement about the series becoming formulmatic.

Thanks everyone! -- Redfarmer (talk) 23:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm trying desperately to get this article up to good article status but I'm still having trouble finding sources for two statements within the article: the one on Brian Wilde considering coming back for Compo's funeral and the one on the origin of Compo's name. Try as I may, I cannot find any evidence for either of these assertions. Does anyone have a source for these? If we cannot find a source within a reasonable amount of time, would anyone have an issue with deleting these assertions from the article? -- Redfarmer (talk) 00:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've checked "Last of the Summer Wine - the Finest Vintage", but can't see any references on the potential return of Foggy there (even though it describes the filming of that episode). Perhaps it might have been in the documentary "30 years of LOSW" Bluap (talk) 01:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * How about emailing the Summer Wine Appreciation Society? They might be able to help source (or disprove) the statement. Bluap (talk) 02:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I actually watched the 30 years documentary last night with that same thought in mind. Brian Wilde talks about how he was only supposed to be gone for six episodes and he may return one day but says nothing about the possiblity of returning for Compo's funeral. And, unfortunately, the Appreciation Society hasn't been answering emails since last summer, I believe due to financial and/or time problems. They haven't posted anything since talking about the 28th series being delayed...not even anything about the Christmas special this year. -- Redfarmer (talk) 07:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The Huddlesfield Examiner site might be good for sourcing tidbits. How about this article for some criticism (or check the Radio Times in question).  Are there any reliable-source reviews of the DVDs? Bluap (talk) 02:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Regarding the origin of the name Compo, I think it is worth while retaining the present explanation even if it is not substantiated, because the name is so eccentric. It probably was explained in some early interview with Roy Clarke, as said in this article and Compo Simmonite, but that may not be easy to track down. I don't know if it is possible to contact Roy Clarke himself, possible via an email to the BBC? I have never tried to do anything like that. Patche99z (talk) 14:12, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is, without a source, it's impossible to tell if this statement is true or not and, as such, the article can never receive good article status. It's the job of the person who adds the information to give their source. The rest of us shouldn't have to work this hard to locate information on sources for other people. I'm all for deleting it. -- Redfarmer (talk) 12:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Point taken. Perhaps you should delete the explanation from this article, while leaving it in the Compo Simmonite article, which is unlikely to achieve good article status because it is necessarily short. Patche99z (talk) 17:31, 30 December 2007 (UTC)