Talk:Latin Union

E-mail
 - Original Message -  From: Uni&#57954; Latina  To: John Martinez  <B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:47 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt MS UI Gothic"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Las Filipinas,Timor Oriental so n un miembro de La Uni&#65411;&#65395;n Latina?</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3>Estimado Se&#57579;r,<BR>Tal como se lo aclaraba en el  correo electr&#57954;ico anterior Filipinas es pais miembre de la Uni&#57954; latina desde 1954. Dos nuevos estados, Timor Leste y Andorra, adhirieron a la Uni&#57954; latina en diciembre 2004.<BR>Atentamente,<BR>---<BR></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times" size=3>Dolores &#65409;lvarez<BR>Directora adjunta<BR>Uni&#57954; Latina<BR>DPEL<BR>131, rue du Bac<BR>75007 Par&#64014; -Francia<BR>tel. (33 1) 45 49 60 60<BR>fax. (33 1) 45 44 46 97 <BR>correo-e: dpel-ul@unilat.org<BR><A href="http://dpel.unilat.org/" eudora="autourl">http://dpel.unilat.org<BR></A>---</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>Le 04:02 14/03/2005, vous avez &#39319;rit:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">&#12539;&#65407; <BR><FONT size=2>Estimado Se&#65411;&#65393;or, <BR></FONT><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT size=2>Quisiera saber si Timor del Este(Timor-Leste, Timor Oriental) es un miembro <BR>de La    Uni&#65411;&#65395;n Latina. Quisiera saber si hay nuevos miembros y si suprimieron a    <BR>algunos miembros por informacion para el wikipedia del Web site (en.wikipedia.org). <BR></FONT><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT size=2>Gracias, <BR></FONT><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT size=2>John(Juan) Martinez <BR></FONT><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT size=2>(Jondel en el Wikipedia ingl&#65411;&#65385;s)<BR></FONT><FONT size=3> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT size=2>Esteemed sir, <BR></FONT><FONT size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT size=2><BR>I would like to know if East Timor is a member of the Latin Union. <BR>I would like to know if there are new members and if some members were deleted<BR>for the website wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org).<BR> <BR><BR>Thank you ,<BR> <BR>John Martinez<BR>(Jondel in the English Wikipedia)</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP> <P></X-SIGSEP><FONT size=3>---<BR></FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman, Times" size=3>Dolores &#65409;lvarez<BR>Directora adjunta<BR>Uni&#57954; Latina<BR>DPEL<BR>131, rue du Bac<BR>75007 Par&#64014; -Francia<BR>tel. (33 1) 45 49 60 60<BR>fax. (33 1) 45 44 46 97 <BR>correo-e: dpel-ul@unilat.org<BR>---</FONT> </P>

Ahh.. Very interesting. It's curious that Canada isn't a part of this Latin Union. --Chris 03:35, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * They should be. Quebecanians would probably want it. If states could apply, maybe New Mexico. --Jondel 04:02, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Good, that clears it up. I have yet to receive a reply to my e-mail though. Erehtsti 08:12, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * I forgot to ask about Equitorial Guinea.--Jondel 08:51, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I think I sent mine to the French offices of the Latin Union. They were probably horrified with my French. Malta and Andorra are listed on the news section of the site (http://unilat.org/actu.html) I asked about this in my e-mail, I'll give it a few more days, hopefully they will reply. That section of the site also highlights Argentina, the Order of Malta and the Holy See as 'Permanent Observers'. Erehtsti 12:22, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Je voudrai etudier francais aussie. Maybe we should make a list of all countries in question then send once and for all. --Jondel 07:40, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's a good idea, we could start by clearing up the 'Observateur Permanent' list (Argentina, Malta, Holy See) and maybe from there ask about ones that are not listed as members but do qualify. A good reference would be the Community of Portuguese Language Countries and La Francophonie, or looking up the Spanish, Portuguese and French colonial empires is always an option. If I recall correctly, Italy did have a few colonies in Africa. Erehtsti 21:27, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK, a seperate section would be good. e.g. List of countries requiring confirmation .After 1 or two weeks, or in good time, send an e-mail .--Jondel 07:33, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

List of countries requiring confirmation
Whether already a member or should be a member.(Please remove any confirmed member.)

Members/Observers

 * Argentina
 * Malta Order of Malta
 * Vatican City/Holy See

Potential Members(?)

 * Algeria
 * Andorra Confirmed member
 * Belgium
 * Benin
 * Burkina Faso
 * Burundi
 * Cameroon
 * Canada
 * Central African Republic
 * Chad
 * Comoros
 * Costa Rica Confirmed Member
 * Djibouti
 * El Salvador Confirmed Member
 * Equatorial Guinea
 * Guinea
 * Haiti
 * Luxembourg
 * Madagascar
 * Mali
 * Mauritania
 * Mauritius
 * Rwanda
 * Switzerland
 * Seychelles
 * Tunisia
 * Vanuatu

Why are Tunisia and Algeria potential members, but not Morroco where the influence of French is just as strong, and there is also a strong Spanish influence in the Western Sahara/Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic? About the Philippines, I think somebody should make a comment about religion. The Philippines are a catholic majority country, which is why some filipinos feel associated with other latin countries which mostly catholic. On the other hand, the latin influence in Algeria, Morroco and Tunisia is much stronger - french is a defacto offical language in all three countries, but retain a strong muslim identity and as such do not identify with other latin countries.

I added a few more countries to the list, most of which has French as their official language. I have also yet to receive a reply from my earlier e-mail to the French offices of the Latin Union, so I guess I'll leave all the correspondences to you (since you were successful with yours). Also, don't you think it would help the Latin Union to have their site in English as well? I have a feeling that the rest of the English speaking population of the Internet (or the world) doesn't know that it exists. Erehtsti 13:59, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok. I'll make the letter and the suggestion. --Jondel 06:43, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Status:email sent today.Andorra is a member.--Jondel 09:48, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Status: Still no reply.I'll just update if I do get a reply.--Jondel 00:33, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I've yet to receive a reply from the first email that I sent =\ Do you think it's a good idea to include a list of potential members in the main article? Or would that just seem like redundant information? Erehtsti 06:07, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think it would be good for the list to remain here. Besides that may invite more POV arguments and confusion. I still didn't receive any reply. --Jondel 00:48, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I suppose we can leave the current article as it is until we hear from the Latin Union. Erehtsti 17:58, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Latin+Union&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Latin%20Union

According to that website, membership is open to any country that satisfies any one of the following criteria: o Official language derived from Latin o Latin-derived language used in education o Latin-derived language commonly used in the mass media or in daily life
 * Linguistic criteria

o Existence of significant literature in a Latin-derived language o Press and publication in Latin-derived language o Television with a strong proportion of the programming in a Latin-derived language o Radio widely broadcast in a Latin language
 * Linguistic/cultural criteria

o Direct or indirect inheritance of the legacy of Ancient Rome, to which the state remains faithful and which it perpetuates mainly through the education of Latin o Cultural education of Latin-derived foreign languages o Interchanges with other Latin countries o Societal organization, particularly in the legal plane, based on respect for fundamental liberties, the general principles of human rights and democracy, tolerance and freedom of religion).
 * Cultural criteria

I think that the Philippines more or less satisfies the details of the last 2 of the 3 criteria. I'm not too sure about the linguistic criteria though. It is undeniable that Spanish has heavily influenced Tagalog, Visayan and nearly all the other major languages and their very many numerous dialects. Thst much is obvious to me just by hearing my Filipino friends talking in Tagalog. There is also Chavacano, which is basically Spanish with many native words added in. Also, nearly all of their major historical documents are in Spanish, like their Constitution written in 1898 and Jose Rizal's major literature works, etc etc. Law and Real Estate Documents are also still written in Spanish, if I'm not mistaken. Filipino culture, while of course has Malay and Chinese influences, is still overwhelmingly Hispanic. And when sources say that nowadays, only 2% of people in the Philippines speak Spanish, all of the sources I've read have stated that they're only counting native speakers. They don't take into account the bilingual/trilingual Chinese-Malay mestizos, Malay and various other people and mixes of people that still speak Spanish as a 2nd, 3rd or 4th language. And what of the people that can speak Spanish because they learned how to in high school/university? It's not a required part of their curriculum anymore, but Spanish language classes ARE still part of the curriculum. The fact that it still is means that theres still demand for it. Anyways, I think the Philippines definitely satisfies enough of the criteria to be allowed membership.

Macau
'Macao Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China (Chinese: 中華人民共和國澳門特別行政區, Pinyin: Zhōng Huá Rén Mín Gòng Hé Guó Ào Mén Tè Bié Xíng Zhèng Qū, Portuguese: Região Administrativa Especial de Macau da República Popular da China) was a Portuguese colony, and Portuguese is the official language along with Cantonese. Isn't Macau part of Latin Union?

By the way, greetings to Filipino Wikipedians out there. Even though Spanish is not any more spoken in the Philippines, the Spanish culture and language made a big impact on yours. Hence, Philippines is and should always be part of Latin Union. Who knows? Spanish might be adopted again as one of the official languages of the Orient Pearl. Ciao! -- Lee Heon Jin (talk) 18 August 2010, 09:07 (UTC)

Suspended or Dissoluted?
Are you sure it "was" an international organisation, as the article says currently? Is it not rather, still existing, yet without the power to act, as the secretariat (but not the organisation itself) has been dissoluted, but, still it has been decided "Garantizar en las mejores condiciones posibles la continuidad de las misiones y objetivos de la Organización, mediante su reconversión"?" The document also reaffirms "de manera incondicional el valor del Convenio constitutivo de la Organización adoptado en Madrid el 15 de mayo de 1954" etc. here? A missing ability to act does not mean legal non-existence. 95.90.217.74 (talk) 08:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It appears to be legally suspended, although the website of the organization doesn't give any news after the announcement of the dissolution of the General Secretary, it stopped its activities ever since.  Super   Ψ   Dro  09:24, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * [Edited:] But, even if suspended, it still exists. So the "was" at the beginning of the article is wrong. Therefore, the article should be corrected accordingly in my eyes.95.90.217.74 (talk) 10:54, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Yeah the secretariat was closed, not the organization which is suspended i guess. Barjimoa (talk) 22:01, 30 October 2021 (UTC)