Talk:Laudanum

Pain
"A brief uptick in the use of laudanum occurred in the middle of the previous decade..." Which decade would that be? While this comment may have been appropriate and accurate at the unspecified time of writing, it will become increasingly misleading as time goes by. Dawright12 (talk) 13:15, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Answer Found relevant data with reference, revised to correspond. https://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=297353 (original not mine) AnEyeSpy (talk) 01:35, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Question
Jul. 26th, 2008 Is this an error or am I reading it wrong? In the "Confusiong with peragoric" it says...

"Several infants have died of morphine overdose where a pharmacist has interpreted DTO to mean deodorized tincture of opium instead of diluted tincture of opium."

Doesn't that mean the pharmacist thought it was morphine, but it was really paragoric? Shouldn't be be reversed since paragoric (diluted tincture) is the weaker one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.130.206.234 (talk) 07:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be much confusion about this. If I interpreted XXX to mean Not Poison, instead of the intended poison, it would result in death. Not the other way around. It's been fixed several times, but always gets reverted by logic-challenged individuals. I'm not fixing it again and will let someone who feels like signing in do it.75.66.111.159 (talk) 23:21, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

To clarify: If the doctor had interpreted "DTO to mean deodorized tincture of opium instead of the intended diluted tincture of opium" then he would have used a much smaller dose and death would not have resulted.75.66.111.159 (talk) 23:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I was just wondering what the exact recipe would be for the original late 1700's and 1800's version of Laudanum would be. Does anyone know the weights and measures of this concoction? If mixed with whiskey until liquified will it remain evenly distributed in the mixture or will it settle out? Do you have to cook the opium in order for it to disolve? Would you use water in a pan to disolve the opium and then add it to a liquor of your choosing? I really want to know because I want to try to make some authentic Laudanum.

I have a question too. "Paracelsus, a 16th century Swiss-German alchemist, discovered that the alkaloids in opium are far more soluble in alcohol than water." Opium is far more soluble in alcohol than water is? Is it really too much to ask for Wikipeople to use proper grammar. How about "than in water"? 75.191.151.75 (talk) 06:02, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Jul. 3rd, 2010 If DTO is properly interpreted as Deodorized Tincture of Opium, and prescriptions are written using DTO to erroneously mean Diluted Tincture of Opium, would it be more proper to say the prescriber incorrectly used the abbreviation rather than the pharmacist misinterpreted it (as the pharmacist used the correct meaning)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.42.184.235 (talk) 00:18, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Whoever was doing the misinterpreting, whether the prescriber wrote DTO meaning diluted when he should have thought of it as deodorised, or the pharmacist read it as deodorised when he should have thought of it as diluted, the phrase itself is unambiguous - "interpreted DTO to mean deodorized tincture of opium instead of diluted tincture of opium." I would read that the prescriber meant it one way, and the pharmacist read it the other. Given the context of deodorised being the standard meaning, it would appear that the prescriber was in error, or perhaps that either te should have written it out in full or the pharmacist should have checked, but the phrase itself is clear. Perhaps "a pharmacist read... when the prescriber intended..." would be clearer? Philculmer (talk) 09:07, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

alcoholic tincture?
Doesn't this sound absurd to you. I mean, are there any other kinds of tinctures? --MikaelRo 22:56, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Alcohol is the only type of solvent used in a "tincture" according to [this reference]. On the other hand, most readers won't be familiar with this, so I suppose it does no harm to be specific that this is an alcohol tincture. Richard W.M. Jones 20:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

usually it's ~48% alcohol for paregoric, or has been the case last couple of years. but i have no references except the bottle i have in hand and what I have studied. not sure exactly about laudanum, which i believe is usually made by compound pharmacies, but i have never seen an opiate tincture made without the use of alcohol. sorry if i formatted this incorrectly.. to me it's a difficult and unusual interface. regards-- Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade 07:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Trying to dab Wilberforce
Quoth the article:
 * There were also political figures (Wilberforce, [..]) who used the drug.

According to Dumas Malone, Italic textThe Sage, vol. 6 (1981), p. 470, Thomas Jefferson used Laudanum at the end of his life. Wilberforce links to a dab article. Is this the famous anti-slavery campaigner William Wilberforce? There is no reference in that article about him being addicted to opium/laudanum however. Richard W.M. Jones 20:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

In Barbara Hodgson's In The Arms Of Morpheus, p. 52..."...When Wilberforce fell ill in 1788, stricken with diarrhoea, fever and loss of appetite, he was given opium as a matter of course by his physicians...Wilberforce, in turn, counselled Foreign Secretary Lord Harrowby...to take laudanum. By 1821, after thirty years of regular, well-controlled opium eating, Wilberforce was in poor shape, with...apparent morphine poisoning.  It appears that even his eye drops contained morphine." This paragraph cites as references John Pollock's Wilberforce, St. Martin's Press, 1977, which I don't have to check. But there are the references if anyone wants to update this article, and/or the Wilberforce article. (This is definitely William_Wilberforce.) BankyEdwards 18:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Questions re: citations
I have a decent stack of books here on laudanum, opium and morphine, and I can probably find any needed references in them. Regarding the "citation needed" in the list of users under History - does the article need citations for each name? If I get ambitious, I might expand that section. BankyEdwards 18:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I have a question. I've never read anything about Shelley using laudanum. Can this be backed up? Also, I wasn't aware Keats ever used it. I'd like these two in particular to have citations, if true.64.194.27.58 06:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

One last question for any interested parties...Would it make sense to break out the list of famous laudanum users in the same manner as the "Featurings in fiction" list? BankyEdwards 18:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Absinthe?
This article states that in Anne Rice's book (and the subsequent movie) "Interview with a Vampire" Claudia uses a mixture of Laudanum and Absinthe on the two boys. Claudia states it is Brandywine but Lestat says it is Absinthe when discovering her misdoing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.251.154.24 (talk) 02:49, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

Notes from Clio
(I cut n paste this from Reference desk, in hope it might be useful Wetman 04:34, 21 May 2007 (UTC))

Laudanum was used for a huge variety of ailments, from colds to heart conditions, for both children and adults. Women used it to relieve period pains, and for attaining the pale complexion so prized at the time. It was spoon fed to infants to keep them pacified, many dying of overdoses. Karl Marx makes note of this practice in volume one of Capital I found this quote from an English doctor, writing in 1873:

Anyone who visits such a town as Louth or Wisbeach, and strolls about the streets on a Saturday evening, watching the country people as they do their marketing, may soon satisfy himself that the crowds in the chemists' shops come for opium; and they have a peculiar way of getting it. They go in, lay down their money, and receive the opium pills in exchange without saying a word...In these districts it is taken by people of all classes, but especially by the poor and miserable, and by those who in other districts would seek comfort from gin and beer.

If you want to investigate the subject in more detail have a look at Secret Passions, Secret Remedies: Narcotic Drugs in British Society, 1820-1930 by Terry Parssinien, and Opium and the People: Opiate use in Nineteenth Century England by Virginia Berridge and Griffith Edwards. Clio the Muse 23:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Lewis Carroll
While I agree that Lewis Carroll may have taken opium, I think the present entry is phrased awkwardly. *Mr. Carroll* had the inspiration, not the laudanum. Who was it who made that quote about opium? that if a mutton-dealer took it, he would only dream of mutton. Pittsburgh Poet (talk) 22:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There,s a reference to laudanum in Dougla Adams'  Dirk Gently holistic Detective Agency. Is this worth a mention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.222.6.95 (talk) 06:36, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

simplified laudanum
see http://forum.poppies.org/index.php?showtopic=10790 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.64.172.100 (talk) 15:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Article rewrite + move wine of opim
Following rewrite was done (modify and reupload here if the text is not satisfactory):

Laudanum is an alcoholic herbal preparation of opium. It is thus made by combining ethanol with opium. The term "Laudanum" however should be applied only to a specific tincture of opium containing approximately 10 milligrams of morphine per milliliter. There are several versions of laudanum including Paracelsus' laudanum, Sydenhams Laudanum (also known as tinctura opii crocata), camphorated tincture of opium (tinctura opii camphorata), benzoic laudanum (tinctura opii benzoica), deodorized tincture of opium (discussed below), ... In addition, besides well-known versions, some people have begun making their own version of laudanum and naming it Depending on the version, additional amounts of the substances and additional active ingredients (eg saffron, sugar, eugenol, ...) are added, modifying its effects (eg amount of sedation, ...)

Preparation and maximum dosage
Regular opium tincture (or tinctura opii) is made by combining ethanol (of 70%) with opium so that a liquid containing 10 milligrams of morphine per milliliter is created. The maximum dosage is 1,5 to 5 grams.

Sydenham's laudanum is made by combining :
 * 50 parts of opiumextract
 * 150 parts of saffron tincture
 * 1 part of cinnamon oil
 * 1 part eugenol
 * 798 parts ethanol (of 60% purity)

The maximum dosage is 1,5 to 5 grams.

Benzoic laudanum is made by combining :
 * 50 parts of opium tincture
 * 5 parts of benzoic acid
 * 5 parts of campher
 * 2 parts of anise oil
 * 940 parts of ethanol (70° pure)

The maximum dosage is 30 to 100 grams.

In addition wine of opium was moved to the opium-article as this is not laudanum, but an other extract of opium.

KVDP (talk) 07:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation help
I am in contact with a professional voice actor who is trying to record a spoken version of George Washington and he wants to hear someone pronounce "Laudanum". If anyone would be willing to call him up or even leave a voice mail with the proper pronunciation, please email me and I will send you his contact info. Thanks.  howcheng  {chat} 18:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Answer? Is it not emphasis on "laud" as in August, "an" slurred almost silent, "num" soft, as it looks,? AnEyeSpy (talk) 01:47, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Manufacturers and price
There are two sources for Laudanum in the U.S.

Source: Wolter Kluwer's Medispan database

LABELER                       NDC           LABELNAME                 QTY AWP           EFFDATE ---

Active

EDENBRIDGE PHARMACEUTICALS    42799-0217-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $741.18       7/15/2010 EDENBRIDGE PHARMACEUTICALS    42799-0217-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $2964.71      7/15/2010

MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $556.25       10/8/2008 MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $661.94       5/14/2009 MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $635.46       9/26/2009 MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $756.20       1/11/2010

MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $2225.00      10/8/2008 MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $2647.75      5/14/2009 MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $2541.84      9/26/2009 MARATHON PHARMACEUTICALS LLC  42998-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $3024.79      1/11/2010

Inactive

RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $49.29        9/3/1998 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $53.00        6/15/1999 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $58.30        6/1/2000 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $62.69        2/11/2002 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $66.69        2/1/2003 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $73.08        3/3/2006 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $102.45       2/6/2007 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-01 OPIUM        TIN 1%       118 $111.36       8/20/2007

RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $178.53       10/21/1998 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $191.96       6/15/1999 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $211.16       6/1/2000 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $227.06       2/11/2002 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $241.55       2/1/2003 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $273.08       3/3/2006 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $392.48       2/6/2007 RANBAXY PHARMACEUTICALS       63304-0203-02 OPIUM        TIN 1%       473 $426.61       8/20/2007  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.29.250.122 (talk) 15:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Shelf life/ expiry
M.C. Beaton's "Death of a Valentine" McSweeny uses bottles of laudanum from attic to dose Hamish Macbeth. I wanted to verify shelf life or expiry, found little. US test on 40 year old unopened codeine effective http://www.pharmalot.com/2012/10/what-expiration-your-drugs-may-last-a-long-time/ Any help?? AnEyeSpy (talk) 01:45, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Not sure about actual Laudanum, but if it's any help, my bottle of Oramorph, which is probably equivalent to Diluted Tincture of Opium - 10mg Morphine Sulphate in 5ml solution, with dextrose, ethanol, and preservatives - is labelled "Discard 3 months after opening", but I've used bottles that have been opened as much as a year and it has still been effective. Philculmer (talk) 09:18, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Users/Abusers?
I wound up on this page after reading several biographies of 19th century artists who were addicted to this drug. On other, similar (now) controlled substances, there are lists of famous people who were either addicted or died due to overuse. It would be interesting to collect a similar list for Laudanum. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 22:07, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

laudanum use in Britain?
The article states "Opium tincture remains in the British Pharmacopoeia, where it is referred to as Tincture of Opium, B.P., Laudanum ... ". However the supporting reference is now very old, dated 1958. 'The Extra Pharmacopeia Martindale. Vol. 1, 24th edition. London: The Pharmaceutical Press, 1958, page 924.' I would be grateful if someone with access to the relevant literature would check whether the statement is still true and, if so, update the citation. Thanks in advance. Plant surfer 11:46, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

My mistake
My memory must be playing a trick on me as regards the "Lodnum" reference in Beatrix Potter which has been removed twice (for two different reasons) and I won't restore. A caveat is: the accuracy of the scans in Project Gutenberg. I gave up on looking at it fifteen years ago as I was so sick of the multitude of bizarre typos: numbers where letters should be and so on. Maybe it was a browser problem, maybe they do better today and their texts are exact renderings of the printed sources and their proofreaders do not alter spellings or remove "inappropriate" language.truthordare (talk) 23:38, 16 June 2018 (UTC)