Talk:Laura Roslin/Archive 1

Trivia
Probably not that important but if people feel it should be included... Roslin's I.D. code was D-456-345-A Zarboki 13:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Rodlin based upon Edwina Curry
Maybe?, Brits may get the reference.--ElvisThePrince 15:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

President
Is Roslin president or Zarek? Since Baltar is gone, succession shows it should be Zarek... Zyxwvutsrqp 03:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Too early to tell. It's doubtful that the order of succession would be blindly and strictly followed, considering the magnitude of the events that have transpired. Zarek might make a claim for the presidency, but considering the Colonials have just returned to the fleet, it's probably best to wait and see. While we're on the subject, according to WP:WAF, the succession boxes are inappropriate to begin with. I'll probably go through the hierarchy tonight and delete them. As for the prose, no assumptions should be made about Roslin's current role... -- Fru1tbat 14:43, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

According to the laws of succession, Zarek should become the new Colonial president, but that only follows if he retained the official title while he was being held by the Cylons (Which I admit is a possibility). However, even if he isn't, neither is Roslin, it falls to whoever is the next in line after the VP (I don't believe they've ever stated the specific order). She holds no official political position now and, though they might hold a special election or something now (Or simply give her the title with a "My bad" apology), officially she has no claim to the position. JBK405 20:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

succession boxes
Can anybody tell me why the above version of the succession boxes are not being used (including her brief stint as VP?) (ChristopherBorcsok 03:57, 12 November 2006 (UTC))
 * While I disagree somewhat with using the succession boxes at all (see WP:WAF), even if they are included, it seems a little excessive to clutter the boxes with a "succession" that took up a minor part of a single episode, and was purely a technicality anyway. She never performed any duties as VP, and so never really served as VP... The fact that Zarek appointed her VP only to hand over the Presidency is pretty insignificant as far as the boxes are concerned. It seems better to me to keep them from getting too messy. -- Fru1tbat 04:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Is there a nicer picture?
I'm not sure the current one on the top represents her well. At least the two pics should be switched. Xiner 03:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The two pictures seem fine to me, I mean, she still looks the same as she does in the photos, and they are of poor quality. Though if you can find a picture that you think would be better suited for the page, then feel free to add it. (Grizzwald 00:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC))

Section removed on Roslin's abilities- re-added
My section on Roslin's inadequacies (especially in relation to her treatment of Athena Agathon) was removed not once but twice by an unsigned contributor. I have thus added the section in again. Twice. I have not been given any reason for this deletion at all on either occassion and both instances the deleter was an unsigned member who would seem to have an axe to grind.

I am aware that this section is scathing of Roslin in a way that the rest of this entry is not; however, I quote direct factual occurrences and I think it obvious, based on the facts, that none have been so inhumane to Athena as Roslin. However, if this is considered too much POV I am prepared to leave conclusions out and only the bare facts. Please do not simply remove the sections without explanation, as has been done before. Twice. Lincoln muadib (talk) 07:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

If I am doing the wrong thing I would appreciate being told why my edits keep getting removed- having them summarily undone by an anonymous contributor without explanation is, I feel, if not cowardly but certainly rude.

If I get no explanation I can only assume there is none.Lincoln muadib (talk) 08:04, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, based on info/ advice from other (signed) users, I have made this section more dispassionate.Lincoln muadib (talk) 00:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Good job on editing the Section on Roslin's abilities!
That's good editing, well done- all the points I was raising but said so much more eloquently! 170.65.188.1 (talk) 23:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to sign. Lincoln muadib (talk) 23:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Can't believe I made such a snafu!
Checking some of the edits I realised I'd stated that Baltar had been accused of being part of the attack on Earth, rather than the Twelve Colonies. *smacks self in head* wouldn't say I had a blonde moment but. . . so a BIG thanks for the poster that noticed that! Lincoln muadib (talk) 01:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Treatment of Athena Agathon Concerns
I have several concerns about the Sharon "Athena" Agathon section. Since it has been a topic of discussion here, I thought I'd add my two cents.

First of all, I don't like the overall opinion conveyed by the section that President Roslin's feelings towards Athena are unique. Commander William Adama tried to strangler Athena when he first saw her and Captain Lee Adama tried to shoot her in the head ("Home" Part 2). Later on, Lee still commented on how unnatural he felt her interaction with Karl Agathon was ("Home" Part 2) and several other crew members consistently referred to her a "toaster" and spoke of her in an insulting matter well into the third season (see "Flight of the Phoenix" and "Torn" for representative examples). Other instances of characters other than Roslin treating Athena inhumanely include, but are not limited to: Colonel Tigh urging Commander Adama to shoot Athena in the head for being a Cylon conspirator and Adama's nearly doing so in "Flight of the Phoenix"; Adama's tendency to call Athena a "thing" (same episode); and then-Admiral Adama and Colonel Tigh considering, along with Roslin, the possibility of terminating Athena's pregnancy in "Downloaded." President Roslin is, in fact, one of the first characters to consider the option of peaceful co-existence with and measured respect for Athena (and other Cylons) when she urged Commander Adam to find common ground with her in "Flight of the Phoenix." My point here is not that Roslin hasn't treated Athena poorly, only that the idea that this behavior is somehow unique to Roslin (which is how this section reads) isn't really true.

Secondly, I have other general comments of a factual nature. (1) Roslin orders Athena thrown out of the airlock on the Astral Queen, not the Battlestar Galactica ("Home" Part 2) (2) Baltar used Hera's blood to cure Rolsin or her cancer; Roslin wasn't really involved in the decision making ("Epiphanies") (3) Roslin and her assistant, Tori, created a list of suitable candidates to take Hera in (with Dr. Cottle picking from that list). The adoptive mother wasn't a confident of Roslin and was led to believe the baby was born to a Pegasus officer ("Downloaded"). The adoptive mother only became close to Roslin once they were on New Caprica ("Lay Down Your Burdens" Part 2); there is no evidence that she ever knew that the child was actually Athena's child. (4) Roslin attempted to secure Hera's safety; she just failed. While on New Caprica, she personally kept an eye on Hera and her adoptive mother at the school ("Lay Down Your Burdens" Part 2). While leaving New Caprica, Roslin assigned two armed guards to ensure their safety ("Exodus" Part 2). The argument can be made that she didn't provide adequate security measures, but not that she didn't provide any. (5) Helo was imprisoned for violating orders. Imprisoning him for violating orders isn't really Roslin acting inhumanely towards Athena. (6) Stating that Athena has "never been anything but loyal" is incorrect. Athena refused to warn the Caprica rescue party about the copy of Reverend Cavil being a Cylon agent ("Lay Down Your Burdens" Part 2). Athena even told Helo that she believed Adama killed her baby and that she no longer cared what happened to him. Early frosts (talk) 03:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Response to "Treatment of Athena Agathon Concerns"
You make a good many valid points. I have taken your concerns on board. I have edited (in some cases slightly, in other cases heavily) certain sections. Thank you for your very valuable input, especially in correcting my wrong-ship-ness. ;)

It may perhaps be useful for me to add in the section on mistreatment in the Sharon Agathon wikipedia page as well? Lincoln muadib (talk) 01:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Article Revision
I have been thinking long and hard about some of the sections of this article. I have reached the opinion that some of the article, particularly the Treatment of Athena Agathon section, is inappropriate for Wikipedia.

Wikipedia is designed to be a source of objective information devoid of points of view, original research, and personal criticisms. While many valid criticisms of President Roslin are raised in this article, none of them are beyond conjecture. It would be a different matter entirely if there was an objective source being relied upon to string the facutal information, but that isn't the case here. In other words, specific instances of conduct (objective) are being used to support a position that not everyone agrees with (biased) and that is not "official." Some sections of this article read more like an attempt to persuade readers of a certain POV and, as stated on Wikipedia's standards page, are therefore inappropriate. These sections are more appropriate for a blog, personal website, message board, or other non-encyclopedic source.

This doesn't meant that the information about Roslin's interaction with Athena or criticisms of her presidency have no place on Wikipedia, only that the facts need to be presented in an objective manner. For example, we could add a "Relationships" section in which Roslin's interaction with various other characters is examined. Among those characters would be Athena. Examples of Roslin's conduct, both good and bad, would be provided and readers would be allowed to reach their own conclusions. Input and discussion on this would be appreciated. Early frosts (talk) 01:05, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

"Relationships" section?
Could be an option. . . I'd be prepared to put in for this. Course, how big would this article get? Lincoln muadib (talk) 02:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm only suggesting it as a possible option. I just know that the current format violates several of Wikipedia's standards and needs some kind of revision.Early frosts (talk) 03:53, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. . . it needs a striking of the balance between losing a lot of information to stay neutral, or becoming overlong in observing her relationships. I'd be more than happy to assist in creating a balanced section.Lincoln muadib (talk) 00:41, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Removing sections without debate is vandalism
Reverted text- as one gentleman/gentlelady summarily went in and removed the section on the treatment of Sharon and put in reams of apologist nonsense far more emotive than the text it replaced.

Roslin treated Sharon appallingly. She was not the only one, sure. But to remove all reference to her behaviour is as unacceptable as my original over-vitriolic entry on her. If I can moderate, so can you. Lincoln muadib (talk) 00:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)