Talk:Laura Roslin/Archive 2

new caprica invasion
I'm not sure about this and have no way of checking, but wasnt Roslin aboard Colonial One when the Cylon Invasion of New Caprica began? This leads me to believe that she ddnt just become a school teacher again upon arrival on New Capricabut a member of Baltar's Cabinet as Secretary of Education.


 * No, she was in a tent teaching children, IIRC

EarlyFrost, removing sections without debate is not editing- it is vandalism
You agreed that the bare FACTS of Roslin's behaviour were a part of Wikipedia, yet youy summarily removed entire sections. This is hardly consistent behaviour.

Reasons for summary deletion? As you've seen, I'm open to debate, but summary deletions not so much.Lincoln muadib (talk) 01:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Editors, please take note of Wikipedia's Guidelines
I would ask that all editors please read the Wikipedia guidelines.

It is appropriate to delete any information that is p.o.v.-pushing, non-neutral, or unreferenced. Any deletion made in good faith due to the inclusion of any such material is not vandalism regardless of whether or not there was discussion on the topic. See Wikipedia's guidelines on Vandalism.

The material that was deleted has been subjected to repeated editting by different editors to include either pro- or anti-Roslin positions. These sections are not appropriate for Wikipedia for a variety of reasons, the primary one being that the golden rule of Wikipedia is that all articles are to be neutral and unbiased in their entirety. Additional problems with the sections are inclusion of some information that ranges from skewed to outright false (yes, even after the changes made about a week ago), the inclusion of personal commentary, and the total and complete lack of references. Under Wikipedia's guidelines, these sections warranted deletion.

The short version is this: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia of neutral, verifiable information. Anything that doesn't fit that description should be deleted. If you want to make an argument that Laura Roslin is a sinner or a saint, fine. Just do it somewhere else.

In addition, please refrain from directing comments towards specific users. According to Wikipedia's No Personal Attacks guidelines, these comments are inappropriate and users who repeatedly make comments directed at specific users are subject to having their editting abilities temporarily or permanently revoked.Early frosts (talk) 03:44, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Inappropriate use of Wikipedia's Guidelines
It is one thing to take out commentary-laced sections (which I agreed with), quite another to remove entire sections of what you yourself state are Facts that do have a place in Wikipedia. Surely you are capable of perceiving the difference.

If there is not, why would you not just, say, remove the entire Wikipedia article on Israel's history? That's a site constantly being filled with POV.


 * Wow, you just don't get it. The deleted sections weren't "Facts" as you like to call them.  They were character-bashing and should have been deleted.  The deletions were made, reviewed by a recent change moderator, and upheld.  At this point you are just going out of your way to attack an editor who did the right thing.

May I quote EarlyFrost?

"This doesn't meant that the information about Roslin's interaction with Athena or criticisms of her presidency have no place on Wikipedia, only that the facts need to be presented in an objective manner."

I reiterate, it was not just commentary that got deleted, it was FACTS. Roslin DID threaten Athena. Roslin DID take Athena's baby away and tell her it died. Roslin DID threaten to throw Baltar out of an airlock. Roslin DID imprison the head of the striking workers.

Just because you'd prefer to sanitise this character doesn't mean it should be wikipedia policy to do so.

As ever, I am wholly open to the creation of a "Relationships" section, as EarlyFrost suggested. If you'd like to assist in this endeavour I'm more than ready.Lincoln muadib (talk) 02:56, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

See, I can actually sign my comments. Not hard. Lincoln muadib (talk) 02:56, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

On Sharon Agathon
Sharon Agathon has been far from "the very picture of loyalty".

- She actively aided in the annihilation of billions of human beings.

- She refused to tell Adama where to find the remaining cylons hidden in the colonial fleet.

- She attempts to choke Cottle when he informs her of her daughter's "death".

- She failed to identify Cavil on Caprica.

- She told Helo that she didn't care about anything -- him or the fleet -- after her baby "died".

- Her rescue of Hera gave the cylons access (via her download) to all her knowledge (much of it surely confidential) about the human fleet, indicating that she was willing to sacrifice the security of the fleet for her daughter. (This may or may not be a noble sentiment, surely, but it is not loyalty.)

- She shot Natalie in cold blood.

Meanwhile the examples of Roslin's "inhumane" treatment of Athena are clearly also biased. - When Athena first arrived on the Astral Queen, Roslin had no reason other than Helo and Starbuck's word that Athena could be trusted and thus no reason not to airlock her. Roslin would certainly be a terrible president if she was willing to risk the safety of the fleet on the word of two people who are likely biased anyway.

- The same logic applies to Athena's imprisonment. One cannot simply blindly trust an enemy soldier who suddenly claims to have switched sides. Also, it's never established that it was Roslin's decision to imprison her. Given that she was kept in Galactica's brig, it call may have very well be Adama's.

- I don't know how canon deleted scenes are considered, but the season two DVDs include one in which Roslin thanks an infant Hera for her role in saving her life.

- Roslin's decision to remove Hera from her parents was just as much a move to protect Hera as it was to protect the fleet. Given that the revelation that Galactica was keeping a cylon prisoner aboard had already provoke one terrorist attack demanding Athena's death, Hera would likely be subject to similar attempts on her life.

- Hera's rescue mission was a danger to the security of the fleet as whole as established above.

- Violation of orders is military matter thus any punishment towards Helo would come from Adama, not Roslin. The decision of how to punish people under his command is his and his alone.

- There is no way to establish that Hera wouldn't have still ended up in cylon arms even without Roslin's actions. Once again, I'm unsure about the canonicity of deleted scenes, but there a number which include D'Anna and Gina plotting to kidnap Hera before they hear of her "death". Hindsight is twenty-twenty and all that.

I have no problem with a section dedicating to discussing the often antagonistic relationship between Laura Roslin and the Eight known as Sharon Agathon, but I hope that such a section will be written with an eye to presenting both characters and their actions as objectively as possible. Roslin may have treated Athena less than humanely, and I think it's perfectly acceptable that the article detail that. However, I also believe it is necessary to detail Roslin's motivations for that treatment, such as Athena's sometimes questionably loyalty and certain extenuating circumstances. Perhaps a reader will feel that Roslin's reasonings or the specific conditions justified her actions or perhaps the reader will feel that they cannot, but I think it's important that the reader of the article be allowed to make that call based on the objective presentation of both sides of the debate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.183.11 (talk) 21:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

The whole debate is stupid and clearly violates NPOV in the most asinine, childish way. Get a grip, edit this trite shit into some fan site, but let's try to steer wikipedia away from that obsessive, contentious conjecturing.

Agathon con't
This section is clearly written in a NPOV manner. This is also a section list information that should be incorporated into the narrative of the article. Finally this is a key example of original research, the synthesis of materials from the show to form an argument about the character without third party reference. I believe it would be best to delete this section outright. -66.109.248.114 (talk) 03:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC).

The return of Roslin's Cancer
I was just wondering if anyone could shed any light on the return of Roslins cancer and why it hasnt been treated with Hybrid stem cells as before. Im only watching season 4 now so apologies if this has been addressed in later episodes. Shaun3001 (talk) 03:45, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Visions
i think a new section is required outlining her visions with regards to earth AS WELL as her visions with Caprica Six, Athena and Hera —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.156.179 (talk) 22:58, 28 February 2009 (UTC)