Talk:Law degree

Spain
Licenciatura - Is used in Spain for a university degree of 4 to 6 years (6 years only for Medicine, and perhaps architecture). Usually the careers lasted for 5 years.

Now in Spain the nomenclature is as follows:

Diplomatura     3 years                                                Diplomado  / Diplomada Graduado        3 years                                                Graduado   / Grado Licenciatura    4 to 6 years                                           Licenciado / Licenciada Master          after the end of the career, but below a Doctorado in the universities master is also used for non university courses Doctorado       After a the Licenciatura, 2 - 5 years, including       Doctor     / Doctora a research work

This equivalences between the University degrees in other languages as French, German, Italian and Portuguese are changing. It depends also on the countries, in Latin America its different than in Spain and Portugal.

The dictionnaires do not clarify these questions

http://europa.eu.int/eurodicautom/Controller

license to practice
There have been objections to the introductory paragraph stating that some degrees are insufficient for a license to practice law. A license to practice is clear by the laws of each jurisdiction. There are no jurisdictions which allow one to practice law by unilateral declaration. And multiple citations were given in order to establish verifiability. But since the objector states that less verifiability is necessary, the number of citations has been reduced at that individual's request. Zoticogrillo (talk) 23:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The number of citations given was simply more than needed to comply with verifiability guidelines and made the article messy. Secondly the ambiguity of what constitutes a licence is still not addressed at all. For example the article should say essentially what you said above, but in plainer terms, and then give an brief example or two. For example:


 * "(although most undergraduate law degrees such as the LL.B. are insufficient education for a license to practice law by the administrative body of that jurisdiction). A license to practice is clear by the laws of each jurisdiction. There are no jurisdictions which allow one to practice law by unilateral declaration, eg in the England and Wales one needs to complete the Legal Practice Course, and in the United States pass a bar exam to practice law."


 * Feel free to tweak as needed, but the ambiguity needs addressed. Cheers. Nja 247 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I guess we are misunderstanding each other. I'm sorry that I haven't been more clear.  Your previous edit also pointed out that the bar exam is required in the U.S.  This article is about university degrees.  It is relevant that some jurisdictions require additional education after the university degree to become licensed.  Passing a bar exam is not education.  It would be prolix to require that the requirements of various jurisdictions be listed.  "Insufficient education" is clear enough--obviously MORE education would be required. Zoticogrillo (talk) 09:54, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I do understand what you're saying. I was simply trying to ensure that ambiguity was clarified and I hope that's been done with my example. Also you said it is relevant that some jurisdictions require additional education after the university degree to become licensed and that passing a bar exam is not education. Though the fact is that whether you have an LLB, LLM, JD, etc you still need to do one more thing to be able to practice. Whether it's technically called education or not is not relevant in my view, and some would argue taking a year off to 'study' for the bar exam to be an educational experience. Regardless, something else is necessary after your law degree to practice, whether or not it's another one year 'course' or a one year preparation for an 'exam' is likely irrelevant, but could be clarified if need be. Nja 247 (talk • contribs) 10:07, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * You've changed your comment since I first started replying, so I'm sorry if my response is no longer relevant.


 * I think your edit is good. But we still disagree.  The "one more thing" is relevant here if it's related to education.


 * A year off to study for the bar exam in the U.S.? I know some lawyers who did so because they couldn't pass in California and New York, but their law schools weren't very good.  If one takes the appropriate courses, then the attentive student will have covered all the materials necessary for the bar exam well before graduation.  Which is why a mere month or two of review right before the exam is all that is necessary.  A set of required courses, such as those in most commonwealth countries, is very different.  There are many law graduates in the U.S. who do not take more than a few weeks to review before the exam.  And graduates of law schools in Minnesota have no need to take a bar exam at all.  One easy way to explain this is that the LL.B. is an undergraduate course, while the J.D. is a doctorate. Zoticogrillo (talk) 10:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, but regardless of an LLB or JD you still need to do one more thing for a licence. I cannot see why the distinction of whether it's an exam or education is a major issue in this particular article. Also whilst the LLB may be undergraduate (the fact that it's called a Bachelor or Laws should be point enough), the LLM could not be correctly called undergraduate, however the holder of the latter degree would need to go through the same process as that of the former. Thus calling the LLB undergrad and JD doctorate does not make the point, since LLM is not undergrad but still is subject to the same requirements. This article is not about education or bar exams and too much is being made of it in my view. All that needs said, if anything, is that a law degree is the qualification, whilst a educational course or bar exam is the relevant requisite for a licence to practice. Nja 247 (talk • contribs) 10:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Degree levels
There are a lot of "it is sometimes considered a graduate/masters..." in this article without any citations for verifiability. Is there anyway to address this in due course? Cheers. Nja 247 (talk • contribs) 08:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The article could benefit from more citations. Although the phrase you object to only occurs once. Zoticogrillo (talk) 18:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I meant "It is sometimes considered a masters level degree" and "It is a graduate degree, though not at the masters level". Nja 247  (talk • contribs) 21:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Citations were added. When the text was originally added, I relied on the other articles in wikipedia for the information, few of which contained any citations. In a number of instances, I discovered (not surprisingly) that the other wiki articles were inaccurate. Zoticogrillo (talk) 19:59, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Looks brilliant, thanks for the excellent cite work. Nja 247 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

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