Talk:Law of Political Responsibilities

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Created a stub on Law of Political Responsibilities further detailed information required, including references and external links. Johnny Beta (talk) 23:58, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

NPOV Dispute
To cite Helen Graham as an unbiased historian and to present her conclusions as fact is highly problematic! Her book on the Spanish Civil War is contested by many as presenting an unabashed leftist point of view. Anyone can write a “history,” but that doesn’t make its author and his or her pontification within the book accurate in fact.

I object to the following sentence within the article: “Franco pursued a policy of institutionalized revenge against the supporters of the Republic” on the grounds that the word “revenge” is  problematic in regard to its linkage to Franco personally. The word “revenge” would be more appropriately applied to ideologues. Franco was always a pragmatist.

Although by nature a conservative and a monarchist at heart, (and never a sympathizer with fascism in fact), his participation in the army coup was hesitant and he vacillated almost to the last moment. He had never been known for harboring strong political tendencies and the only grievance he personally had with the republic was the closing of his beloved military academy. Other than that, he had no grievances of a personal nature that would have stirred him to vengeance, unlike many others on both sides of the conflict.

The military coup attempt failed to seize control of the entire nation and when the dust settled each side found themselves holding significant parts of the nation. Thus, an unforeseen civil war situation resulted. Almost half the nation supported or secretly sympathized with the insurrection. Had that not been the case, then the revolt would have ultimately failed.

The divisions between Spanish traditionalists, conservatives and fascists on one side and liberal reformers and radicals on the other were so deep seated that the war became one of the most bitter and savage in history, even for a civil war which are always the most vicious of wars. After Farnco’s forces prevailed, he was left with a situation where he knew a significant percentage of the population hated him and his government, both because of the war and for ideological reasons. Therefore, he needed to winnow down all potential forces that would simmer and potentially rise again against him. Thus, he embarked upon a course of political repression, not revenge, though certainly many under him took advantage of the situation to secure revenge. That was not, however, his personal motive with the law. His primary motivation was always one of self-interest.

Franco did not start out to become dictator of Spain. Circumstances both afforded him that opportunity and in a sense forced it upon him. In the wake of the carnage and hatred of the war, he could not go back. He acted in self-interest and self-preservation and astutely and adroitly managed to keep Spain out of WWII despite intense pressure from his fascist allies to come in. Although he had much to answer for, he was a virtual saint when compared to the likes of Hitler and Stalin. He saved more Jewish people from the Holocaust than any other single individual, and his repression was never personal.

The atrocities committed by both sides during the civil war were staggering and Franco’s subsequent repression was harsh. I don’t say no to that. But if the “revenge” assertion regarding Franco stands, then I suggest a neutrality dispute tag be place upon the article. The word “revenge” should be replaced with “repression.”HistoryBuff14 (talk) 13:50, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

"Her book on the Spanish Civil War is contested by many as presenting an unabashed leftist point of view.". By Who? By the way, Helen Graham is a professional historian, like Antony Beevor and Paul Preston, also cited in the article.

"Although he had much to answer for, he was a virtual saint when compared to the likes of Hitler and Stalin." Franco executed at least 50,000 spaniards after the war (another 100,000 during the war), forced to exiled 500,000 and jailed another 270,000. A virtual saint?????? Was Pol Pot also a virtual saint because he only killed 2 millions people? Was Videla a virtual saint because only killed 30,000 persons? Was Idi Amin a virtual saint because only killed 300,000?.User:Ajfernandez2001.

—The Spanish Civil War was two groups of people at each other’s jugular veins. Had the left prevailed (i.e, the Communists), one can only imagine the ocean of blood that would have flooded the country as indicated by numerous examples when Communists have seized power. The difference would have been that, unlike the rightists, the Communists would not have stopped with merely butchering their ostensive enemies: conservatives of all stripes. They soon would have turned their sights on fellow leftists deemed insufficiently reliable in their allegiance to Stalin (the most grievous sin of all). In that light then, yes, Franco was a relative saint.

(By the way, Communists didn’t believe in exile. Blood was the only thing that would satisfy them as evidenced in Russia, starting not just with the deposed Tsar, but also his wife, (minor) children and relatives, including his wife’s sister who had long since become a nun.  And, of course, we all know how Trotsky’s escape into exile terminated.  Stalin’s maxim was:  “No man, no problem.”)

Wars, like elections, have consequences.

All I am asking for is the change of one single word: “repression” instead of “revenge,” and that strictly for factual reasons. Franco can remain a butcher if you and others would have it so. HistoryBuff14 (talk) 16:14, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

—Thank you. I have removed the neutrality dispute tag.HistoryBuff14 (talk) 14:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Expost facto law
The dictator could legislate on any matter he wanted. That law was ex post facto and started a witch hunt, but it was the law... Juridical abominations doesn't exist in dictatorship because whoever said that gets shot death. No juridical abomination because SHOOT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.141.88.36 (talk) 19:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)