Talk:Lawnchair Larry flight

Dubious facts
The sentence about Larry first getting the idea when sitting in his backyard in a lawn chair is dubious, and I have marked it as such. It is in conflict with facts known to his biographer, Mark Barry, who has reported that Larry first got the idea to use balloons at age 13. I will do some more checking and may come back and remove those sentences. paul klenk 16:28, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

How is it contradictory that (1) he first got the idea to use balloons at 13 and (2) he sat in a lawnchair and thought that would be a good way to fulfull his childhood dream? Answer: It isn't contradictory. Are you still smoking crack when you write this stuff?

Sears ad
There is no mention of him doing the Sears for allegedly the same model of patio chair he flew, complimenting its sturdy design. I don't think that one's a hoax, I've seen scans of the ad on the net.
 * If you can send me a link, I'd be happy to work it into the article.   paul klenk 05:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

My bad, it was a Timex magazine ad. Allegedly he launched with a Timex wristwatch. Snopes sez 'Timex paid him $1,000 in 1992 to appear in print advertisements featuring "adventurous individuals wearing Timex watches"'. It was part of a campaign.


 * A scan of the Timex ad is visible on this webpage Check-Six 07:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.markbarry.com/lawnchairman.html is the most official source. It does not discuss the ad nor corroborate that he took off with one but under "Appearances" it does mention a Timex magazine ad. I was unable to track down a scan of that ad, I'm not sure if I ever saw it so it's questionable if a scan exists. Given the history of unsubstantiated additions to the story it's worth questioning, but Mark Barry does mention it and perhaps he would be the best person to verify that with.

Also there is a hilarious audio tape from the CB's emergency "REACTS" system he called on his CB. This covers talk between himself and his ground crew and later talk with an extremely confused air traffic control. That tape is quoted on Mark Barry's page and he supplies the audio file so I believe it to be authentic. It is found nowhere on the web but his site.

In the recording he mentions altitude several times, it appears his launch equipment must have also included an altimeter (as well as a Timex). At one point in the recording he says "my altimeter reads ..." so he does seem to have brought one.


 * Yeah, I know about Mark Barry.com, I've corresponded with Barry himself. This subject is a doozy.  We can definitely work more material into the piece.


 * I have been inspired to appear as Walters in New York's Village Halloween Parade. I will put my body through a lawn chair, with fake legs hanging over the front, and large clusters of white helium balloons tied to the chair.  If I have time and money, I would really like to walk on 3 to 4 foot stilts -- I'm looking for a stilter instructor in one of NYC's circuses -- to make it appear that I'm really floating above the crowd.    paul klenk 06:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Contradictory facts in article
The middle of the article claims that Larry planned to just hover for a little while, but the bottom of the article, about the Myths, says that he planned for a long flight and that that was his intentions all along. This needs to be resolved- both sentences can't be right.Andrewdt85 04:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC) 04:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC

Comment on "Contradictory facts in article": Mark Berry's online biography notes that a primary strap was intentionally cut, and a secondary strap accidentally snapped. This implies that he may have wanted 1) hover at some height, tethered to the ground, in which case he might still have wanted to spend a long time up in the air; or 2) he wanted to stick his toe in the water, so to speak, before actually being launched; or 3) he wanted a controlled ascent to a certain height to ensure he was free of obstacles before being cut loose. Therefore, both sentences may actually be correct.

The introduction claims Larry reached an altitude of 11,000 ft. Under the heading, Preparation and Launch, the altitude is claimed as 15,000 ft. The numbers need to be reconciled.

More poor logic:
 * What's the point of a parachute at 100ft? It's not going to open in time.  Strapping on a parachute would seem to indicate an intention to go a lot higher.
 * It's possible he just showed more foresight than you give him credit for.
 * What was Larry's experience with parachutes in the first place? An experienced skydiver wouldn't hesitate to bail out of a balloon floating above 2000ft (or less for some).  We consider that sort of thing fun.
 * At 16,000 feet, many folks would black out from hypoxia - not to mention it's near freezing at 16k. Anything above 14k puts most people at risk of hypoxia, and the time it would take a balloon to go from 14k to 16k and then back to 14k has to be more than a few minutes.
 * What is the source of 16,000 feet and how did they know? Touchdown Turnaround 05:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I still thing there's a good bit of myth and misinformation in this article. In short, we must consider the likelihood that Larry lied about his intentions to escape prosecution. Rklawton 07:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think most people would black out from hypoxia at 16K. People go to Everest base camp all the time without supplemental oxygen, and that's 17K. Not doubting that hypoxia will knock you out, just questioning the height at which that happens for most people. Jrhoadley 13:01 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Bullet #9, under myths dispelled, stats that "Larry's chair was a piece of patio furniture, not a folding lawn chair." However Bullet #11, just below it, makes reference to "his lawn chair".

I just checked Wikipedia's entry on Hypoxia, and it says that Altitude Sickness onset occurs in 6 to 10 hours. There certainly is enough oxygen at 16K feet to stay conscious, so I think 16K feet is definitely possible. It wouldn't be pleasant, and he might have a bad headache and racing heartbeat, but it is highly unlikely he would black out. Jrhoadley 16:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The myths dispelled section says that it was not a folding lawn chair but that is contrary to the pictures here http://www.markbarry.com/tvshows.html. Mkshbeck 19:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The movie?
Wasn't there a fictionalized version of Mr. Walters' story released last year. It featured the basic element of the balloons on a chair, but then had him land far away where he fell in love. While certainly not an exact adaptation, it must've been influenced by his story and deserves some mention.

The movie is called Danny Deckchair. It's on the TV right now as I type this. The chair with the balloons is probably based on Larry's flight, but the rest of the story is totally unrelated. I'd heard the Larry story, so the movie prompted me to look him up on the net. For information on Danny Deckchair, see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337960/.

I'm glad the real Lawnchair Larry didn't live to see that movie. It was so sitcom-ish. Not that a good film couldn't have been made of his exploits, but Danny Deckchair wasn't it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.166.50.79 (talk) 22:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Urban legend status
The phrase "often mistaken as an urban legend" is a little inaccurate. "Urban legend" does not always mean false; it simply means it's a bit of folklore that is claimed to be true by the person telling it. What passes it from a news story into folklore is the changing of details. For example, every time the Darwin Award e-mail comes around, it claims this happened "last year" or some such (but I highly doubt that e-mail has been circulating since 1983). It's also often told that the man (with no name given) died, thus he was a candidate for that year's Darwin Award. Or sometimes we never hear what happened to him afterward, the story ending with Walters floating above LAX or JFK or the ocean but presumably having plummeted to his death. It's these exaggerations and mutations that make it an urban legend. --Birdhombre 16:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Distance?
Approximately what distance did Larry cover? According to Mapquest the distance San Pedro-Long Beach is about 7 miles / 11.5 km by road&mdash;maybe someone could come up with more accurate info. Thanks. Maikel 15:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Girlfriend?
I have to say that Larry's girlfriend Carol van Deusen appears to be the unsung hero of this epic. The way she stood by her man makes Tammy Wynette look like a pushover, a fair-weather friend and a quitter rolled into one. Is there any more information we could more information get on her, especially on her motivation? Maikel 15:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Tammy always was a pushover. That's why she was married five times!  It's Carol van Deusen (and Hillary Clinton) who really  knows how to stand by her man!  Rlquall 01:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Carol just loved Larry I guess. A couple years after the lawnchair incident, she got on a daytime NBC show of the period called "Wishes" I believe.  The premise of the show was to find some worthy person and fulfill their wish.  Carol's was to marry Larry.  They basically built it up over the course of the program offering him/them various prize-based incentives to tie the knot, doing a nice sales job on her, etc., and at the end of the show, he just turned it down.  --98.206.188.62 (talk) 07:54, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The play?
In 2003, Bridget Carpenter wrote a play, "UP", centered around a fictionalized version of Larry and his (also fictional) family. The play has since been performed at major regional theaters, including the 2006 season of the Oregon Shakespeare Festival in Ashland, Oregon. This seems worth noting in the article. PavelCurtis 18:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, Walters is also mentioned in Robert Fulghum's book, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten, which was also turned into a play. --Birdhombre 21:43, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Earlier flight on a tiny seat: Garret Cashman in 1954
I was always confused about this lawn-chair stunt. I'd heard it described as happening in upstate New York, not LA. I finally found the cause: an earlier effort! Garret (Gary) Cashman, age 27, took off from Albany, NY, using 70 weather balloons filled with natural gas and attached to a tiny seat. He rose to 6,000ft and drifted over 25 miles. And this occurred ...on September 9, 1954! Photos of his rig and his flight are in "Illustrated Current News Inc.," 9/13/54 no. 6408, New Haven, CT, as "Former dancing teacher flies aloft in 70 balloons."
 * Any chance the "Illustrated Current News" of 1954 was anything like the contemporary Weekly World News? Rlquall 01:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it appears to be more like "UPI wirephoto" with large-format B&W photos of major news events. Cashman also made it to several upstate-NY newspapers as well as Life Magazine  Before posting my above comment, I searched on Cashman's name and found it in the "history" section of clusterballoon.org.  That site says that the first one to try the idea was professional balloonist Jean Piccard in 1937, with 98 weather balloons, and his son did the same in 1957 and 1962.  So it appears that the first crazy amateur DIY cluster balloon was Cashman's.  But he used a tiny wooden seat, not a big comfortable lawn chair.--Wjbeaty 03:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Number of weather balloons.
According to both The Straight Dope and another article, Walters used 42 balloons, not 45.
 * Even more confusing, one place in the article, it says he used 45. Another place, it says he bought 45, but used 43. SlowJog (talk) 09:25, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If you listen to the David Letterman interview he clearly states there were 43 balloons. Is is possible he purchased 45 (I think I read that somewhere) but it seems that only 43 were ultimately required. He discusses the weight calculation in the interview. Verne Equinox (talk) 01:23, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Was he arrested?
The article claims he was arrested by the LAPD, but this is not mentioned in what appear to be the most accurate accounts of the story. - furrykef (Talk at me)

Looks Like Walters' Feat was Repeated
A man from Bend, Oregon just accomplished a similar feat. If the 1954 flight could be confirmed, maybe a Category: Lawn-Chair Aviators should be created to house 3 articles about these individuals. --Thirdmoon 17:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC) 
 * Couch, in interviews, is apparently trying trying to claim solo credit, calling Walters' feat "an urban myth" and implying it did not really happen. CFLeon 04:14, 12 July 2007 (UT)


 * Cashman made it to Life magazine (see ref above.) Newspapers mention he carried sandbags but controlled altitude by releasing individual balloons.  He stayed up for hours drifting along the Hudson, but fortunately he carried a meatloaf sandwich.  This first flight was followed by police after they received hundreds of reports and Cashman was immediately jailed for flying wo/licesnse, then released and fined $50 by the CAA (Civil Aero Authority.)  He went on to start a cluster-balloon career at state fairs and advertising stunts.  Here's a bit from 2010 Air & Space magazine  Here's 1954 newsreel footage on YT, showing Cashman in a failed attempt to apparently loft a huge ad banner. Wjbeaty (talk) 04:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Myths dispelled
This section was moved here from the article and was tagged as unreferenced and POV. It is more appropriate here: Many exaggerated or simply inaccurate stories have circulated around the Web regarding Walters' flight. The following facts have been confirmed from interviews with his friends and family, and by analyzing a recording of his CB radio transmissions.
 * Larry was launched from his girlfriend's backyard in San Pedro, California with the assistance of another friend, Ron Richlin.
 * Larry dropped his glasses during lift-off, but had a spare pair with him, and radioed his "ground crew," saying, "I can see perfectly — don't worry." (Later in the flight, when his girlfriend reported she had found his glasses, he replied "Well, that's good news.")
 * Larry did not pass near LAX, but rather Long Beach airport, where TWA and Delta Airlines pilots sighted him and reported him to the tower.
 * Larry came down in a residential area north-east of Long Beach airport.
 * Larry did not drop his BB gun during lift-off. However, later in the flight, after using it to pop balloons to begin a descent, he did drop the gun.
 * Larry did float over Long Beach harbor but did not float out to sea.
 * Larry did not, as some newspapers reported, purchase the balloons from a military surplus store, but from a balloon supplier.
 * Larry was not rescued by a helicopter, but rather came down on his own intent while possibly trying to land in an open field.
 * Larry's chair was a piece of patio furniture, not a folding lawn chair.
 * Larry gave the patio furniture away to a neighborhood kid, later regretting this generosity when the Smithsonian asked to place the chair in its archives. Today that same person still has the chair (with ballast water jugs and tethers still attached), and has said he intends to donate it to Larry's mother.
 * Larry was also contemplating taking his pet cat with him on the flight, but acted against it when his girlfriend was hesitant about the cats health in the air.
 * Larry paid $1,500 after battling the FAA. Of 4 total charges, some were dropped (it was decided that his lawn chair did not need an airworthiness certificate) and Larry admitted to one other (not establishing and maintaining two-way contact with the airport control tower). According to the FAA, "The flight was potentially unsafe, but Walters had not intended to endanger anyone." The original poster was Special Contributor 4.12.124.255 on January 5, 2005, usinf the heading "The Truth". Verne Equinox (talk) 03:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Darwin Award Date
The Larry Walters article claims that Walters received an "honorable mention in 1982's Darwin Awards" but the Darwin Awards article says "The Awards have circulated since 1985...". Something sounds wrong there? --Asianartfan (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Trivia cleanup notice
I removed this, as it's not a list of trivia but a list of valid pop culture references. Anyone going around marking pop culture lists with trivia cleanup note is going to have a lot of work on their hands.  PacificBoy  05:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Numerous Imitators Of Larry Walters?
Like Who? Who else besides those two mentioned above I googled it but i couldn't find any? Can you guys show me any others?24.7.204.215 (talk) 04:18, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Can we add David Blaine's latest stunt to the list of imitator?

Intended height?
This article says,
 * "His intention was to ... float above his backyard at a height of about 30 feet (9.1 m) for several hours."

But Cluster ballooning says,
 * "[Walters] intended to rise just a few hundred feet (about 100 metres),"

Which is it, if anyone knows? —WWoods (talk) 17:57, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Larry Walters. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070711093239/http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=6759982 to http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=6759982
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080708014943/http://www.cnn.com:80/2008/US/07/05/lawnchair.balloons.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview to http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/05/lawnchair.balloons.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

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Site coordinates
If someone likes to find out coordinates to improve the article this YT-video@240sec may help. --Itu (talk) 06:03, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Larry Walters. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100822171832/http://news.sky.com:80/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Balloon-Man-Jonathan-Trappes-English-Channel-Bid-Daredevil-Attemping-To-Cross-Water-With-Cluster/Article/201005415639649 to http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Strange-News/Balloon-Man-Jonathan-Trappes-English-Channel-Bid-Daredevil-Attemping-To-Cross-Water-With-Cluster/Article/201005415639649

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One-event person
Is Walters a one-event person? WP:BLP1E and all that. Maybe we could rename this article to "Lawnchair Larry flight" and make the appropriate adjustments.--Sa57arc (talk) 03:46, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Possible youtube channel advertising?
It looks like the last line of the "In Popular Culture" section is just advertising some clickbait. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viperfan7 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

More details and discrepancies
There's already a cite to "Video", which is a YouTube video of Larry's appearance on David Letterman's complete show of July 12, 1982, with more details of his flight than are mentioned in the article; he is on from ~10.45 to ~21.10, of a total 43 minutes (with ads cut). Before Larry is called onto the stage set, Letterman shows a brief video clip of the initial takeoff, and the arrangement of three vertically separate clusters of balloons.

I've also found an extensive article by George Plimpton dated May 24, 1998, in The New Yorker issue of June 1, 1998, titled The Man in the Flying Lawn Chair. Plimpton had interviewed Larry at length not long after his flight; and then after the suicide, he talked to Carol and her mother Margaret Van Deusen, and separately to Larry's mother Hazel Dunham and his sister Kathy. This article also includes far more details not in WP's article, or in the Letterman show.

There are several discrepancies between the Letterman and Plimpton interviews and other reports in WP's article, including the number of balloons, and the tilt angle of the chair (Letterman 40 or 45 degrees, but Plimpton only 10 degrees). However, in both of these two interviews Larry says that he was not strapped into his chair with a safety belt, because with the tilt he could not fall out. Milkunderwood (talk) 09:27, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have made no edits to the article here, and do not plan to -- I leave to other interested editors to review both Letterman and Plimpton to expand the article with data, which I personally feel is more important and useful than the huge and apparently still growing list of "Imitators". At least an earlier section of "In Popular Culture" is no longer included. Milkunderwood (talk) 09:40, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Musical
Soon to be a musical apparently: https://42balloons.com/ EzraJones (talk) 12:52, 18 April 2024 (UTC)