Talk:Lawrence Kutner (House)

Reason for being killed off
Should there not at least be some comment such as

In early 2009, Penn was offered the position of Associate Director of the White House Office of Public Liaison in the Obama administration, which he accepted, necessitating that his House character be "killed off".[1][10]

This is from the Kal Penn page. It might explain alot to people coming onto WP to find out what is going on.

Avenger786 (talk) 13:37, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Reason he was killed off
Actor asked to be released so he could go work a non-acting job at the White House - http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/04/house-exclusive.html The article should probably be edited to reflect that. -Jdmalouff (talk) 20:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Should the reason the actor left the show be included in the character biography? It is included on the actor page, but shouldn't a fictional character biography refrain from referring to the actor's motivations?--Emgee1129 (talk) 14:22, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it should. Wikipedia articles about fictional characters are required to have relevant real-world information, to make sure that the article remains out-of-universe. --Hnsampat (talk) 15:39, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Age
In Simple Explanations, Forman says he's 28. Someone should change his age. 72.12.170.172 (talk) 03:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * In the "obituary" on Fox's website it says he is 33. 98.232.104.222 (talk) 05:07, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Speaking of the 'obituary' page, the link is wrong. http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=house&ep=1238776222169 is the correct link, for those of you who wish to update it. Centrisian (talk) 03:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * This is the where is moved to. --MikemoralSock (talk) 05:24, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Article title
Why is this article at "Lawrence Kutner (House)" rather than "Lawrence Kutner" when the latter just redirects here anyway? -mattbuck (Talk) 14:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Funny story. Lawrence Kutner was original a disambiguation page, disambiguating between this page and an article that was later deleted. So, that page became a redirect to this one. Fact is, we probably should just move it to Lawrence Kutner. --Hnsampat (talk) 19:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You're right--that is a funny story. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.127.96 (talk) 00:19, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Article Lockdown
In light of the recent scenario regarding the death of this character on the show on April 6, I would like to request this page be locked down to prevent spamming of what happened and forthcoming speculation that is unsourced. AnthonyWalters (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job locking it down WITH bizarre uncorrectable nonsense about Doogie Howser killing him, editors! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.95.132 (talk) 00:24, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Problem is, no edits seem possible. If someone can add it, could someone edit the article to show his original surname was Chowbay and he adopted the Kutner surname of his own volition shortly after the murder of his parents.  Source is current episode (Simple Explanation).  -- Silverhand Talk 00:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Edits should not be made until the episode is over. Currently, Dr. House suspects murder, but he could entirely be paranoid.  There's no reason to jump to any conclusions until the episode is over and all information is gathered.  (Zojo (talk) 00:32, 7 April 2009 (UTC))
 * Maybe should say he dies instead of kills himslef (User:Miamiandy (talk) 00:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC))
 * Yes, as it hasn't been confirmed whether it was murder or suicide, it should only say that he has died. (User:Ganonscrub (talk) 00:41, 7 April 2009 (UTC))
 * No, it was suicide. Saying he died only breeds expectations from viewers that the situation will be addressed in further episodes.  According to the story, police confirmed suicide.  The only reason murder was brought up was due to House's unique way of dealing with the situation.  (Zojo (talk) 01:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC))
 * Confirmed as suicide on the fox website: http://www.fox.com/kutner/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.39.105 (talk) 01:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Not precisely confirmed. There's an in-universe obituary. In fact, the whole thing's pretty much in-universe. I agree that whenever his death gets added back to the article, it should be listed as a suicide with only the note that House believed it was murder, but it would be incorrect to say Fox has confirmed it was suicide. I think it's more likely that they want to play the suspense on that one, so I highly doubt they're going to come out with any confirmation either way, outside of the show itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.78.50.62 (talk) 02:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, apparently the Chowbay name was sarcasm on House's part. Fox has set up a site at http://www.fox.com/kutner, which includes a Obit for Kutner along with some background info.  Maybe this can be worked into the article before it gets pulled down? -- Silverhand Talk 01:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Like any article, this should have inline citations to reliable sources. Maybe this should be stubbed until those can be found?   Will Beback    talk    01:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Since you brought it up, I've added a references tag, to warn readers for now. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

As Kutner is never seen in the Simple Explanation episode, doesn't this mean that his actual last appearance was in last week's episode Locked In? Yokes14 (talk) 02:10, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He was lying on the floor when Foreman and Thirteen go to his apartment. faithless   (speak)  02:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * But you didn’t see his face.75.166.70.253 (talk) 02:17, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * All this will need to be sourced anyway. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Kutner is dead, and it has been confirmed by the funeral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.163.210 (talk) 04:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It would be nice for the top segment not to mention the fact that he's dead. Not everyone's seen the episode yet, and you can mention the fact in the body where it won't be as noticeable.Gemini4t (talk) 06:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

What's the point of a CT tag in the first line on the article? Kutner commits suicide in the episode "Simple Explanation.", the source is the episode itself.. Havok (T/C/e/c) 16:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Someone should remove the reference to Neil Patrick Harris killing Kutner
I'm sure it doesn't belong in this article, but it has been protected. Shinobizx (talk) 00:22, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, that was a dumb joke referencing the movie Harold and Kumar, I'm sure. Get rid of it, it's an eyesore to all House fans. (Zojo (talk) 00:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC))

Nice work on the lockdown! Edit and clean up so that it looks presentable again. AnthonyWalters (talk)

Did the actor die in real life that played Dr. Kutner? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.20.58 (talk) 01:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC) Fox wrote that in order to stick with the story. maybe he's not dead at all.

No. (01:52, 7 April 2009 User:TRAiNER4)

Adopted at age 10? Minor detail in his bio that bothered me! (4/6)
In the episode this evening (April 6, 2009) where Kutner allegedly killed himself his adoptive mother said something along the lines of Kutner calling his new parents Mr and Mrs Kutner until his 9th birthday when he recieved a chemistry set. His mother said that Kutner said something like "thanks mom" finally accepting her I suppose. So they had to have had him before he was 10. I am pretty sure the mother said was around 6, after his real parents died. Again, it's kind of a small detail, but it bothered me. That fact that it's in quotes and isn't cited bothered me too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimms0301 (talk • contribs) 02:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * It's possible he went to live with the family as a foster child when he was 6, but was not formally adopted unitl he was 10. From my understanding of most social service systems, an orphaned child won't always be adopted right away, even if there is someone willing to do it. They have to rule out other family members taking the child, review the parent's will if there was one etc. 98.232.104.222 (talk) 04:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I've just read the "obituary" on Fox's website, and it says he spent several years in foster care before being adopted.

Speaking of the character's death, whether it was suicide or no, Simple Explanation contains Kutner's death: there's no arguing that point. It needs to be added to the article. Omniferous (talk) 03:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

hiis last episode appearing in needs changed from Simpe Esplanaition to the previous episode becuase he is never shown in Simple Explanation. The only time we "see" him in pictures and "his" legs. Since Kutner isnt seen the ref needs changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Solarguy17 (talk • contribs) 03:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * What? You just said it - we saw his legs. Therefore, he appeared in the episode. faithless   (speak)  03:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Additionally, while we don't see Kal Penn we DO see "him"...with him being Kutner, it doesn't matter who plays the character as long as the character is being played. In actual fact, it's alluded to that it is him and they use an audio clip from a previous episode to add to the allusion, but for all intents and purposes it's Kutner. 78.86.230.62 (talk) 17:34, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Neil Fifer to replace Kal Penn (Dr. Kutner) on House M.D.?
Anyone else hear this? heard this from a source in the Industry close to the Show. I looked him up...good call if true: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1292175/

Oh, and it's SEASON 5 on House that Dr. Kutner gives himself the Dirt Nap.

68.146.6.56 (talk) 08:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Memorial Site on Fox
There's a memorial site on Fox.com that has a lot of information about Kutner on it. --Fireheart14 16:03, 07 April 2009 (EST)
 * He died Thursday, April 2nd, 2009. He was 33 years old.
 * Born in Freemont, California.
 * Birth parents were named Karamchand and Niki Baidwan
 * Adopted parents were named Julia and Richard Kutner
 * Won a Westinghouse Science award for an experiment involving dark matter while in high school
 * He received a full scholarship to the University of California at Berkeley and graduated magna cum laude with a degree in Physics
 * He attended the University of Tel Aviv Medical School and completed an internship and residency in Sports and Rehabilitation Medicine through the University of Colorado.
 * He had a girlfriend - Nicole Brewster
 * After a grueling 43 hours, he managed to crawl 20 miles, and earn himself a place in Guinness Book in 2002
 * How come his birth parents' surname is Baidwan when his own surname is listed as Choudhary? Any reason? 78.86.230.62 (talk) 17:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Urine
I never thought I'd use that for a heading, but the statement that "it is implied" the urine is Kutner's...keeping in mind this takes place in a hospital, it could easily have been a patient's urine he used. Could we change it to "the urine is Kutner's or, possibly, that of a patient"? I would change it, but the article is currently locked down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.106.209.61 (talk) 21:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

spoilers
Can the spoilers about his death please be removed.--Lucy-marie (talk) 22:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Spoiler

We need to maintain an encyclopedic tone and include the important plot information. If you don't like it, add a {spoiler} tag. 173.74.141.167 (talk) 22:06, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't do spoiler tags. faithless   (speak)  22:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I moved some of the spoilers further down the page (so someone who'd stumble on the page could see "Oh, it's a character from _House_, I better not read on) but someone moved them back up, just to spite. I'm not saying add a thousand disclaimers, I'm just saying don't put it in the very first thing the reader sees. Sunnan (talk) 11:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry,but per WP:LEDE, the lede of an article should summarize ALL major points that an article covers, not just the ones that it is "safe" for people to see. Firestorm  Talk 16:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Death / Suacide
Missing Kutner's murder or suicide, ending to the charictor. --78.105.115.195 (talk) 00:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Kutner was killed off because he's going to work in the white house, true story, read it on comcast news —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.152.75 (talk) 00:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know if Kal Penn had any influnce over the manor in wich Kuttner died 192.138.178.134 (talk) 22:56, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

"Critical reception" section
I moved the "Critical reception" section to the Simple Explanation episode page, since it has more to do with the events surrounding Kutner's death than with the character himself as a whole. Hopefully nobody has a problem with this. --V2Blast (talk) 05:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Merge
Should definitely be merged with House (TV Series). Just another page of fandom in my opinion.George Pelltier (talk) 13:36, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The sources in the article establish the character's notability. Just because a subject has a fan base, that does not by itself mean that it's not notable. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Past Tense
Just to quote Manual of Style here, "By convention, these synopses should be written in the present tense, as this is the way that the story is experienced as it is read or viewed. At any particular point in the story there is a 'past' and a 'future', but whether something is 'past' or 'future' changes as the story progresses. It is simplest and conventional to recount the entire description as continuous 'present'." I've already reverted people trying to change the article to the past tense twice. Please stop. — Jake   Wartenberg  18:39, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Obama killed off Kutner - this needs to be commented in the article
Why did Obama have to kill off Kutner? I can understand killing Osama bin Laden being part of his agenda, but Kutner was not a terrorist, he was a good example that Pakis and Indians can be good MD's, perhaps because of his adopted parent upbringing. Why is racism against Pakis and Arabs allowed, while that against sub-Saharan African Americans is not? Why president, who is of mixed ancestry himself, has to stip young Pakis of a positive influence? Does he only allow terrorist and negative images of this race to preservere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.198.220.89 (talk) 06:19, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Wikipedia is for blatant censorship of unpleasant facts for USA. Does CIA control this site? They do not even allow putting discussion about mentioning Obama's role in perpetrating anti-Indian racism on American TV.

This subject needs to be mentioned in the article, not only on talk page!!!

Also, a user talking about CONSENSUS and edit warring about inclusion of this info into introduction, keeps deleting the talk page. Instead of discussing the issue here. This is vandalism, IMHO!
 * You realize there's already a discussion about this at the top of the Talk page? Besides, it's already mentioned in the Biography section...why does it need to be repeated in the lead? Doniago (talk) 16:14, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move, the fact that 36068 readers found the current article with its current title in the last 90 days indicates it is serving its purpose Mike Cline (talk) 17:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Lawrence Kutner (House) → Lawrence Kutner – It is clear from the page view statistics, that Lawrence Kutner (House) is the primary topic for "Lawrence Kutner". The disambiguation article doesn't need to be moved as there is only one other article to disambiguate and a hatnote will suffice. Page view stats in the last 90 days: Lawrence Kutner (House) 36068 and Lawrence_Kutner_(psychologist) 1114. Armbrust, B.Ed. Let's talk about my edits? 22:38, 25 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose – in general, making a primarytopic claim on a current pop phenom based on pageview stats is short-sighted and pointless. Leave the disambig, and admit that one topic is not overwhelmingly more important than the other.  Dicklyon (talk) 05:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Overwhelmingly the "Lawrence Kutner" that readers want. Did you read the article, Dick? Apparently this character was killed off four years ago and yet it's still 36 times more popular, so I don't see this move as being "short-sighted". Jenks24 (talk) 05:08, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed, it was a fun read. I watch House irregularly, and had missed this killed-off character.  Still, I think this kind of primary topic claim, and dropping of clarifying disambiguator,  is a bad idea.  Dicklyon (talk) 05:23, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Jenks24 (talk) 06:07, 27 January 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Cause for parents’ death
In the very episode where Kutner’s grieving colleagues try to find possible influences on the victim’s choice to commit suicide, House said that Kutner watched both his parents get shot to death. That seems pretty significant to me as the cause for his entrance into foster care; should this not be mentioned in the Early Life section? ZappoTheGentleman (talk) 20:07, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

"Dies by Suicide" vs "commits suicide"
I don't know why @Doniago is hung up on keeping a less neutral "commits suicide" when this is a simple edit to make it into a more appropriate "dies by suicide". Let's follow guidelines set forth [here https://www.camh.ca/-/media/files/words-matter-suicide-language-guide.pdf] Hires an editor (talk) 01:56, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In addition, there's no consensus when the change wasn't wrong or incorrect in the first place. Why is it so important to keep it the way it is? Hires an editor (talk) 01:58, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * We don't go by other sites' guidelines, we go by the consensus that we establish here. This has been discussed many times, including here. As far as I know, there has never been a consensus that 'committed suicide' should be considered terminology to avoid, and at this point, if you feel strongly that that should be the case, I would recommend an WP:RFC...though I'm not sure when the community was last asked to weigh in on this.
 * It's your opinion that your preferred phrasing is "less neutral" and "more appropriate"; please make more of an effort to avoid presenting your opinions as facts. DonIago (talk) 02:35, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree. "Commits suicide" is an active phrase and should be used as opposed to "dies by". There is no basis for this being insensitive or problematic. DonnieNova (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Commits suicide is the far more natural and more appropriate phrasing. He is the one performing the action; turning it into a passive phrase implies some other force. We are writing for all audiences, remember, not merely academic ones (especially about a subject of most interest to pop culture). — HTGS (talk) 03:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)